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Is a First Generation FWD Impreza a good first rally car?

3.1K views 7 replies 6 participants last post by  Don Kennedy  
#1 ·
I'm looking into getting into stage rally and I'm thinking about starting with a FWD Impreza. Is this a good start? I'm hoping to find a built one, so how much am I looking at, assuming the engine has few to no upgrades?

I'm particularly interested in this car, since I hear it's easy to upgrade to AWD? How true is this for someone who is somewhat mechanically inclined, but without proper tools (yet?)? In addition to the driving side, I'm also interested in the build part. I'd just rather drive first and build later. Plus, I'd rather not deal with welding a roll cage.

Is this a good way to learn, if I go to a rally school? Would it be a better idea to find a golf or a neon or whatever and rally that for a year or more, and later sell it and buy a different AWD car?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am hoping for some information here. Thanks!

btw, I'm in California if that changes anything.
 
#2 ·
Look at rally entry lists all over the world..Don't limit yourself to North America hwere the sport is so tiny, under-developed and incestuous..

Andf I'm sure you'll see just how popular FWD Subarus are, as well as Neons and old Golves..They literally FILL most entry lists...Easily 80% of all the cars....
That's because everybody knows the only car to rally is a turbo all wheel drive car, so that's the only legitimate pathway...
That's why everybody does it and everybody repeats it as if it was carved in stone tablets..

That's the main thing.. And remember that correlation is not causation. North America, USA in particular, has unique conditions and one of the most thoughtful and nicests guys in North America Rally scene Anders Green did some numbers crunching a year or so ago and found that something like of all people entering an event from 2000-2014 a staggering 43% did a whole 3 events before dropping out and disappearing, and 26-27% did one event...

Now there is probably absolutely no connection between those figures of massive churning of people and their dropping out like nowhere else in the world and the relentless near 100% unanimous advice that was given via this and other fan based forums and the choices of which cars to buy/build....
Probably just a statistical anomaly...All the advice is all good, all their reasoning was all good, nobody said anything wrong, and above all nobody thought about the whole process in a fundamentally wrong way and naturally, nobody did anything wrong. Everything 100% perfect..

The reasons for the massive dropping out has to be found elsewhere.. Its normal for people to spend 10s of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of work and anticipation and just do something 1 to three times and dump everything..Its their money, they can do whatever they want..

So yep just do exactly the same as virtually everybody else in the whole world..
Check worldwide start lists, see the domination, the ubiquity for years of FWD Subarus , and Neons and how everybody just does a few events before moving up in multiple factors of cost and complexity to top tier turbo AWD machinery, naturally 60% of them to Subarus...


What could possibly go wrong?

Only one thing...Re-arrange the elements of your screen name and then think...could that be an answer?
 
#5 ·
...massive churning of people and their dropping out like nowhere else in the world...
I'd be interested in seeing the actual data on turn-over rates in the rest of the world.
I certainly don't think anyone would have thought the pass-through rate was as high as Anders' numbers show, but they seem solid. Without looking at the same measure from elsewhere it is hard to take that as a good datapoint. /threadjack

Any plan that goes "buy rally car > rally rally car > sell rally car and upgrade" has a fundamental flaw in it. When you rally a car you really do need to be prepared to throw most of it away in that event.
This can be debated, but if you don't have any loose surface experience then some time at a school would probably be of value. My personal advice would be that if the school you are looking at focuses on 'handbrake turns' then it probably isn't worth the money. You'll want to learn weight transfer more than yanking the oh shit stick.

Being in California might make some differences in terms of emissions testing and/or what cars are available local to you. Best thing would be to reach out to, and get involved in, the local rally scene. The previously lauded Anders Green has a SoCal counterpart Kristopher Marciniak who has always struck me as a good guy. http://www.nasarallysport.com/d734/contact
 
#3 ·
FWD Imps were only made a couple years then everything Sube went AWD. We had two up here in the PNW that did ok, one got converted to AWD and the other sold and not sure about. Finding a caged FWD Imp will be pretty difficult, but lots of AWD Imprezas around and the Open Light class of non-turbo AWD cars is very popular and a good place to start. Golf, Neon and Honda have all been rallied with success and are all still being rallied.
 
#4 ·
If you want a fwd impreza it's actually easier/cheaper to start with an awd drive one and convert the trans to fwd. The big downside to the actual fwd impreza is that there are no final drive options and some of them have different input shafts on the trans (ie doesn't match the awd stuff) which then leaves you with zero clutch options. the fwds only had ej18's and you'll eventually (immediately) want more engine and came with tiny front brakes and rear drums. It's a good platform in fwd but you won't end up using any of the fwd specific parts once it's developed. use the search function and you'll find a number of threads on this topic. also look around for a good focus since the price and availability are good on those.
 
#6 ·
So is this idea pretty much pointless? Would I be better of searching for a Civic/CRX, a Golf/Jetta, a Focus, or a Neon? If I had the option between these, which would be best for cheap parts and good support? I'd like to find a golf, but I guess it would depend on what I could find. The CRX seems to be quite small, but it seems to have a following. Would a Honda engine be good for a beginner, with its non linear power curve(I think)? And what makes the Neon so great? I see it recommended a lot, but it doesn't strike me as a car that would create a rally following. The Focus is occasionally mentioned, but I don't see it on that many entry lists.

Why is the general consensus to buy and not build? I get that it is cheaper and gets you more experience quicker, but I don't see how this rules out a build. At first, I was totally just going to buy, but I've made the mistake of looking at some build threads and that looks like a load of fun. Someone needs to talk me out of this. But thanks for the help so far, everybody.
 
#7 ·
CRX should be a non-starter. Very little room in the car, short wheel base. Civic much better and scads of them around. Massive amounts of Honda data and parts available. VW is similar as well as Neons. Neon and focus are probably slightly less popular but still doable. Well driven FWD cars are stupid quick but anything to do with the transmission or gearing can get expensive whereas RWD is stouter and much cheaper to gear correctly. Honda is probably the easiest FWD to find performance parts for at a decent price.

Build or buy, well much depends on your wallet, specific skills, place to commit mayhem and desire. Lots of people have started building and lost interest or otherwise went astray before ever completing a car. Buying can be a crap shoot as to how big a POS you're actually getting. Either way you're going to spend some serious after tax jingle. Tires are nearly $200 each and they don't last 60,000 miles. Belts are 150 a seat, seats are 4-700 ish, entry fees run 500-1000 a weekend. Cage, clutch, skid plates, wheels , brakes, exhaust and so on. Then consider within about 4 rallies you'll bite it at some point and either ruin the car or some massive damage. It happens.
 
#8 ·
My $.02 on build vs buy. Only build if you've been involved with the sport for some period of time, at minimum, 1 year. After you've worked, crewed and co-driven a bit you'll have a good idea of what is involved in a half decently prepared rally car. I had done all that for quite a while and was able to build my first car in 3 months and it was a successful build. If you haven't done all that, you'll probably be buildiing for quite a while and as has been stated, may never finish.