Generally, it is recommended to only use steel fittings for brake applications. It is possible that someone makes aluminum fittings that will work for brake applications, but I'd check with the manufacturer before ordering.


Scott Radabaugh

 

>I'm about to make a fittings order for fuel and brake
>lines. I'm deciding between Earl's aluminum vs steel
>fittings for various -3 inverted flare bulkhead and T
>connections for the brake lines.
>
>Aluminum fittings seem to be quite a bit less expensive than
>steel fittings of the same style. Just wondering if people
>have had problems with aluminum fittngs in teir brake
>setups.

Hey, the -3 bulkhead fittings and the tube nuts are intended for brake useage. Nobody really uses -3 otherwise.
You've seen the tube nuts Pegasus PN 3235-03 and tube sleeve 3236-03 for the -3 (3/16") stuff haven't you?
That's what you want to terminate your hard lines to Male AN fittings like. check out "Weatherhead" pn C5105x3 for nut and C5165x3 for sleeve.
I like to bring hard lines for brakes to a bulkhead fitting in the wheel arch, not on a cross member, and lock it down with the nut and a decent lock washer. then in the caliper I like a male in male out fitting. then I make the hose wotyh a swivel end on each end, so the hose is not handed, and so 1 guy with 1 wrech can swap a hose quickly.

For the fuel system, same thing hard line to the pump or filter and -6 is the size.
Don't waste any time searching for affordable -3 bulkhead fittings in steel they're not there.
Note that in -6 (3/8") or smaller you can use the same flaring tool for AN/JIC 37½degree and SEA 45 degree.
>
>thanks





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

OK, thanks for the help. I think I'll try aluminum.

I noticed that Pegasus says that brake lines should use steel, but then -3 steel fitting are three times the price of aluminum ones or even larger steel fittings. Just going with the aluminum saves my about $45 on my setup.

Thats a great note on the 37 vs 45 degree flare. I've been trying to find a 37 degree flair, but they are all $80-$90 bucks. I can pick up a 45 double flair it anywhere. Do you have to double-flair these AN fittings?

John, what do you say about plumbing the rears on a Golf with the funky trailing arm and all that OEM proportioning mess? Can you just bypass all that and go stright to the rear calipers? The stock lines run on top of the trailing arms which seems nice, becaust then there is no relative movement between the line and the caliper.

Well, hell, here my plan...
-Front lines remaim pretty much stock, but the lines will run off the same circuit, rather than the stock cross pattern.
- Rear lines come out of the same circuit and join at an aluminum -3 T bulkhead at the firewall. The merged line extends down the tunnel so that I can plum in a bias adjuster at a later date. At the end of the tunnel I have a T union that splits to each side. I come back outside with 90 degree bulkheads by the rear axle pivot and connect to my existing braided lines. (Cuz VW have those extra 2 flexible lines up underneath connecting to the trailing arm) The rest is stock down the trailing arms to the calipers.

 

OI KARL! a few notes:
>OK, thanks for the help. I think I'll try aluminum.
>
>I noticed that Pegasus says that brake lines should use
>steel,

Right brake lines or pipes, the skinny thangs as oppossed to copper or stainless. Curiously in hyper-nervous-paranoid Sweden the approved thing is a specific nickle-copper alloy, very easy to work with , strong as hell and WILL NOT SPLIT.



but then -3 steel fitting are three times the price
>of aluminum ones or even larger steel fittings. Just going
>with the aluminum saves my about $45 on my setup.
YEP!
As for fuel, you might find the price for steel from Weatherhead or Parker in 3/8 just fine.
>
>Thats a great note on the 37 vs 45 degree flare. I've been
>trying to find a 37 degree flair, but they are all $80-$90
>bucks. I can pick up a 45 double flair it anywhere. Do you
>have to double-flair these AN fittings?

If we look at Weatherheads book, no.
>
>John, what do you say about plumbing the rears on a Golf
>with the funky trailing arm and all that OEM proportioning
>mess? Can you just bypass all that and go stright to the
>rear calipers? The stock lines run on top of the trailing
>arms which seems nice, becaust then there is no relative
>movement between the line and the caliper.
>
>Well, hell, here my plan...
>-Front lines remaim pretty much stock, but the lines will
>run off the same circuit, rather than the stock cross
>pattern.

OK, but if you plumb _1_ line out to a T, then continue, then WHEN you decide to ditch the servo and tandem master and go to dual master, you're already plumbed


>- Rear lines come out of the same circuit and join at an
>aluminum -3 T bulkhead at the firewall.

Naaaaawwww, cap off on side and bring your remaining line right back to a grommet at the firewall and then down to a straight union at some easy to get to place rather than at the firewall (access is everything when plumbing with home made flares, you may have to redo a couple once you put serious pressure to them)
So I just saved you 1 -3 T at $19.99 from Pegasus or $9.90 at Coleman.

You owe me 1 beer.




The merged line
>extends down the tunnel so that I can plum in a bias
>adjuster at a later date.
RacerParts Wholesale has sales constantly on the screw type limiter (which is what all the lever and screw type limiters are) $39.



At the end of the tunnel I have a
>T union that splits to each side.

WHOA!!!! What happened to your handbrake mastercylinder???
So, into the INLET side (pay attention!!) out the outlet and....



I come back outside with
>90 degree bulkheads by the rear axle pivot and connect to my
>existing braided lines. (Cuz VW have those extra 2 flexible
>lines up underneath connecting to the trailing arm) The rest
>is stock down the trailing arms to the calipers.

back to your Volvo 240 rear calipers you mean to say?????.........

Your 240 Volvo calipers on the 265mm front vented discs riding on the flange of what once was a VW rear brake drum?, The flange which you chased the holes out to 9/16 and used Bug-Pack 2.2" long M14 x 1.5mm studs with the lead or rounded nose making starting the nut a ½ second thing and wheel swaps a 2½ minute job (which you formerly could spend just lining up the hole for the first bolt)?

(How was that for a run on leading question, eh?)





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

Wow, that sounds complicated. I'll use the stock rear discs for now. But, the VW lug bolts do indeed blow. Is that 240 setup for a drum-to-disk upgrade? Or is it for larger-than-stock rear disks?

Hmm, I didn't think of just plugging one of the ports. Oh, well, the check is already in the mail. I'm going with Earls aluminum all around. All that fancy dual master cylinder/ handbrake stuff will come next. I'm not a fan of the vacuum brake booster. I only have two weeks to get my brake and fuel lines off the bottom of the car and install a skid plate and light rack. Crunch time.

Thanks, I appreciate the replies.

 

I wouldn't go with alum fittings. Pegasus says you shouldn't, Earl's says you shouldn't, Aeroquip says you shouldn't, everyone says you shouldn't. I think I know why too.

You will be using steel, or something like steel for your brake lines. You have to flare the tubing to make it work in AN fits, right. You can get the flare and fittings close to the same, but not the same. This means that you have to torque the fitting enough to "squwish" the lines into shape. The problem with alum fittings is they can't produce that amount of torque. They will strip themselves because alum is softer then steel.

It doesn't make much sense that manufactures would say that you should use steel fittings. They are more expensive because they require more work to make. Its harder to mill steel then softer alum. If alum would work the company would only have to make one fitting for everything, not steel and alum like now.

I just had the same problem: buy cheaper alum, or do what is recomended and use steel. I broke down and bought steel. $43 bucks isn't much to spend on argueable the most important system on the car. Power gets you into problems, brakes gets you out.

Robin

Hey John, what is the best master cylinder for a handbrake? I need to buy one to plum in.

 

Hi all,
Use what you want, odd that I've seen plenty of real rally cars done with alum. bulkhead fittings, and you know the torque required to acheive a pressure tight fit is pretty low.

For handbrake master, I've seen 5/8" as the standard, the size many Nissans use as clutch masters.

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

"Power gets you into problems, brakes gets you out."

HA! You obviously havn't seen my car!:7

I made a compromise with all y'alls suggestions. I already ordered aluminum fittings, but I found a 37 degree flair tool that was only a bit more than a decent 45 degree tool. This should give the correct sealing area and the nut won't have to squeeze a 45 into a 37. My calipers have those shitty bubble flairs, so I can't think of where I would be using 45s, anyway.

 

If you look at Baker Precision the steel fittings are the cheapest, then aluminum, then stainless steel. Of course, Pegasus probably doesn't carry nasty old rustable steel fittings.

 

Hey, another quick question.....


How many bulkhead nuts do you need for a bulkhead fitting? Just one? Or is does a nut go on each side of the bulkhead? I just want to make sure I ordered enough.

Thanks

 

RE: nuts

just one, flange on the inside.

 

RE: nuts

Cheers