>Wow, that's one of the most arrogant statements I've ever
>read.
No not really. I think it's one of those tone things we all miss, OK?

Derek and I have talked about how even among people who do make lots of dough there is a consistant "amazement" that he does rally.
"How can you do it?"
Of course they would never think of NOT having:
BIG screen TV
BIG sound system
Ipod-cell phone that palys movie/takes movies, washes clothes, gives a hand job,
6,700 buck mountain bike
expensive ski/snow board
new flash car (you ever see the POLL "whaddya drive? it was a near INVERSE of what I would expect to see for even casual competitors, a buncha 20 sumpins with 99 and 02 expensive cars for the street and dog stock junk for the woods---WTF!!!)
5000 sq ft + show houses
dining out 4-7 times a week
expensive clothes

and this is Sleezattle, decidedly NOT the most status picky part of the country.
etc

Now I've been helping dozens of guys get started since 1984 and there is a consistant percent that would be characterized as "OOOOooooh dude, I am so INTO (just fill in the black, it REALLY doesn't matter)
rally-racin' I sooooooooooooo wanbt to build a car and start!!!!!"

But then you find they are 28 and still in college with an undeclared major, 250 credits spread all over, have around the crash pad:

>an unfinished "rad design recumberant bike that's like the most fuel efficeient machine ever invented doooood"

>a partially built kayak with 3inches of dust on it.

>ankle deep in burger wrapppers and never seen without a tall Latte in hand

> some more dead bicycles that once were "the latest"

> new expensive electronic toys like Derek's examples who make 4-5 times as much.

>no mechanical sense, but every "......to Win" book written

> and a complicated plan to do gravel rally by :"First I'm going to buy a Capri, then fix it up since you know the V6s so well then I'll auto-cross it for 3-4 years to learn some car control, then I'll sell it and find a........"

And they are working toward a job which will be working as a barista, or a janitor, or a video rental store.

Or like 85% of my generation fawkin "Artists" (dude, I did live in Capitola and Insanity Cruz with glass workers and leatherworkers and other hand craft people as friends and neighbors--Hell I'm wearing a belt I made in 1975 and have worn daily since---I was one!!!).

So Derek's not being arrogant just suggesting the obvious to those who claim they want to go racing.

OK??

 

I don't think the scrimp here, save here, is quite the full aspect of it. It's just the start. You can't cut out Chipotle burritos and eat only peanut butter sandwiches every day and suddenly start rallying. It has to be entire lifestyle. Derek has the good point also that you have to make an effort to change. Mark Malsom is a good example. Has a decent job as a manager of Blockbuster. Could make enough money to run a NA car, a couple of rally events a year and the Colorado series. But he's gone back to school and is finishing his Mechanical Engineering degree. His main motivation is increased cash flow from a better job so he can race more and build his car better. I have a good secure state job making more than the median salary in Denver, but I am starting on my Master's degree in the fall to increase this more.
Instead of a nice house and a decent daily driver, I ride a scooter that costs me annually less than my coworkers pay monthly to operate. Yeah, it sucks when it's -13 outside but okay, it's what I have to do. I live in the ghetto with dirt cheap rent. I have a single car garage. My neighborhood has drug dealers and gangs. I know of a stabbing and a shooting that have occurred within a block of where I currently live at. That's why I have a 100 pound dog with a good mean bark. (though he costs approximately $30-40 per month to keep fed). I don't have a TV, telephone, or the internet. My computer is used for watching movies from the library (free rentals), watching rally footage, and editing videos. I have more car parts than furniture. I have a couch that was given from a rally friend. It's my only real piece of furniture. My computer desk is boxes and such. Could most people live like this? Probably not, but it's a small sacrifice to me to get me to where I want to be.
I think claiming sponsorship/trust fund as a hold back or necessity is not correct. There are examples of people that have run top cars without huge budgets just as there are examples of people with huge budgets that can't seem to deliver equitable results.

 

>Wow, that's one of the most arrogant statements I've ever
>read.

For clarity could you let me know witch statement sounded arrogant to you. I expect "pick a job that can get you there"?

If so I will expand on my thoughts a little.

There are many good jobs that have upper limits on earning potential for example a dental hygentis. It is a good job, typically has good hrs, helps people, requires training and skils. There is nothing wrong with this job other than it will never pay a great deal. Same for school teacher, Nurse, Office Manager, Car Mecanic, Airplane Mecanic, Pilot, Electrical Engineer etc.

Other jobs have shown time and time again that there are avenues to really brake out of the normal wages. Computer Jobs, CPA's, Construciton Jobs, Sales Jobs, realestate agent etc.

Now wages is hardly the only factor when picking a path but it is one to think about. I personaly think anyone who has the drive and dertermination to put together a rally car and make it to an event also has the personallity that could in the right job produce a solid income in the top 5% or so.

Derek

 

Hiya John,

Yeah, I'm not arguing the whole idea that a budget is necessary, and that one has to sort out one's priorities based on what one wants to do. For some people, having that ubersized flatpanel TV with the 7.1 surround may be more important to them than having the ultimate rallycar/servicetruck/whatever. For others, it may not be an issue of what they buy or how they budget; their priorities or their background may preclude simply switching jobs just so they can rally.

What bugged me about Derek's post - and yeah, it may simply be a tone thing - is that it smacked of "you should just get a better job, and get paid a lot, like me!". It's NOT easy to get into that upper 5% tax bracket, and may requires years of education and experience, along with a lot of dedication and a certain amount of luck.

 

Hoche, it is a tone thing. Derek is, not that he needs defending, the most unarrogant young-ish guy raking it in with both hands that I know of. I see his point. There's more to rally than the car. You wanna be a national level contender, and you have what it takes, you gotta have your whole life dialed into that goal.

 

Hey Derek, I'm ticked off at you too.

I'm an electrical engineer and I'm in the top 5% of salaries in the US. Could be higher but I deliberatly went back to being an engineer several years ago to reduce my chances of a heart attack.

Actually, the only reason I am responding here is to state the world needs more engineers. Well good ones that is, not just those that get the title and still don't know diddly.

Oh yea, to get into the high levels of income in engineering, you have to be really good or old. You may speculate on which I am.
Richard

 

Derek, my apologies. We've met a couple of times, and you seem like a pretty mellow fun-lovin' guy, so it was sort of shocking to hear what I perceived you were saying coming from you - which is why I commented on it. However, this being the texty internet forum that it is, I obviously missed your underlying meaning and jumped to conclusions, and now I gotta swim back.

Yeah, you gotta pay to play, especially at the National level. Whether it's working your way into a 5% job so you can fund it yourself, or just finding some way to build up the connections so you can persuade someone else to fund it for you, a certain dedication is needed.


That being said, my hat goes off to the local "club" rallyists I've seen who get out there on small or no budgets. Without naming names, in the NW there's a couple who started rallying while they were still in college, running a worn out MR2. Every event, they struggle to keep it running, but when they can, they manage to set blistering times with what they've got. I know someone who rallies up and down the west coast on a teacher's salary. Last year, I co-drove for someone who had a child on the way and because that had an impact on his rally budget we did the event commando-style, with no service crew. We drove the rallycar to the event, ran it with both our spares and all the tools in the back, and managed to finish respectably.

So, where there's a will, there's a way. It takes dedication and money to contend at the top levels, but with some careful budgetting I feel that nearly anyone can get out there and compete.

 

Home equity loans! My house has gone up faster than I can drive.

 

I just got out of college, and I was super poor the whole time so I'd like to think that I have gotten a little more thrifty with my money.
Also, I don't have any school debt so that's a huge relief.
And I'm an engineer with access to our company's machine shop.

That always helps

 

I just got out of college, and I was super poor the whole time so I'd like to think that I have gotten a little more thrifty with my money.
Also, I don't have any school debt so that's a huge relief.
And I'm an engineer with access to our company's machine shop.

That always helps

The trick now is to continue living like you were in college. Don't go out and buy a new $30k pickup. Don't throw down the plastic for a new flat screen TV at BestBuy. Don't start buying leather jackets, XM radio, expensive beer, etc.. And for cripes sakes, don't get married and have kids!

You've survived four (maybe five) years on ramen noodles, Goodwill furniture, and Busch Light, you can survive a few more.

DEM

 

Dennis hits it spot right there. Live below your means and you can play well above. Many of my coworkers drive nice cars and own houses and such, yet they're all amazed that I race rally cars and am always leaving town for events. They're like, I hope to go on vacation this summer, and I'm like, I hope to stay in town for more than two weekends this summer.