A story on the Autoweek website
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...ortsnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02573937
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...ortsnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02573937
WRC to North America?
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
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38 Posts
Sure. NASCAR can come up with zillions of $ to stage an "American Spec Racer" series (Winston Cup) and take up all the airtime for a week on Speed Channel with the same roundy-round garbage but try to get funding for a WRC event?
Guess you can only get the big bucks if you're still in the pushrod-engine-and-live-rear-axle stage.
Jeremy "just bitter because SC cut coverage to one hour" Oreskovich
"Racing is life...
All else is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen
"Our Car is F***ed"
-Team Skoda co-driver Tina Turner
Guess you can only get the big bucks if you're still in the pushrod-engine-and-live-rear-axle stage.
Jeremy "just bitter because SC cut coverage to one hour" Oreskovich
"Racing is life...
All else is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen
"Our Car is F***ed"
-Team Skoda co-driver Tina Turner
Joined
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967 Posts
You want WRC in the USA, just deposit $20M in my PayPal account and you will have your WRC.
Only $20M, that's the same as the weekend steroid supply for an NFL team, or maybe a week's worth of Nintendo advertising. Far cheaper than the ice skate budget at the Vancouver Winter Olympics. A WRC for only $20 million US (that's about $244 million CDN using next week's exchange rate). If some of you guys would park those SUVs, you'd save $20M on your gas bill in a week or two.
Nigerian government employees or Canadian drug stores need not respond to this offer.
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com
Only $20M, that's the same as the weekend steroid supply for an NFL team, or maybe a week's worth of Nintendo advertising. Far cheaper than the ice skate budget at the Vancouver Winter Olympics. A WRC for only $20 million US (that's about $244 million CDN using next week's exchange rate). If some of you guys would park those SUVs, you'd save $20M on your gas bill in a week or two.
Nigerian government employees or Canadian drug stores need not respond to this offer.
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com
Joined
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1,385 Posts
Interesting quote
It says Kurt "choreographed calendars with the British Rally Championship."
[hr]
[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
It says Kurt "choreographed calendars with the British Rally Championship."
[hr]
[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
Joined
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626 Posts
Yes,... the FIA would really like to see the US back into the "Championship".
Most younger folks don't remember "Press On Regardless".
What people don't know is that the founding is there. The catch is the sponsors want TV coverage and a big spectacle. Which is understandable, so they can draw in the crowd.
The other hang up is, a few of the possible areas are fighting over, who would be best suited.
We probably will see a WRC event in the US eventually. Canada is also a strong contender as well as Mexico. CNAR is doing a good job so far to promote an event with support from USAC.
What people don't realize, or are not fond of, is that a WRC event is not for everyone. W R C is for the best. That also means, you have to have the money for it, because they are costly.
To come to a conclusion,.. let the people who have the money to compete in a WRC round worry about it. I definitly would spectate. And anyone who says he/she wouldn't? They lie or don't love the sport enough.
Whiplash RallyeSport
Most younger folks don't remember "Press On Regardless".
What people don't know is that the founding is there. The catch is the sponsors want TV coverage and a big spectacle. Which is understandable, so they can draw in the crowd.
The other hang up is, a few of the possible areas are fighting over, who would be best suited.
We probably will see a WRC event in the US eventually. Canada is also a strong contender as well as Mexico. CNAR is doing a good job so far to promote an event with support from USAC.
What people don't realize, or are not fond of, is that a WRC event is not for everyone. W R C is for the best. That also means, you have to have the money for it, because they are costly.
To come to a conclusion,.. let the people who have the money to compete in a WRC round worry about it. I definitly would spectate. And anyone who says he/she wouldn't? They lie or don't love the sport enough.
Whiplash RallyeSport
Joined
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118 Posts
>Yes,... the FIA would really like to see the US back into
>the "Championship".
>Most younger folks don't remember "Press On Regardless".
For anyone interested, there's a bunch of photos from the early 70s POR and Rideau Lakes (as well as a bunch of other long-forgotten events) here:
http://www.rallyalmanac.com
There's also part of the routebook from the Great American Mountain Rally, back in 1954-55, possibly the first-ever U.S. FIA-sanctioned rally.
>the "Championship".
>Most younger folks don't remember "Press On Regardless".
For anyone interested, there's a bunch of photos from the early 70s POR and Rideau Lakes (as well as a bunch of other long-forgotten events) here:
http://www.rallyalmanac.com
There's also part of the routebook from the Great American Mountain Rally, back in 1954-55, possibly the first-ever U.S. FIA-sanctioned rally.
Personally I would love to see another snow round in the WRC, and I would love to see it in Canada. Quebec is pretty far, but I'd make the trip!! From what I've seen of the RAC (Rallye Auto Charlevoix) the fans out there are pretty hardcore and the events look really well done.
Money talks though so I'm sure USA will be #1 on every corporate mind
Skye Poier
Seattle, WA
Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/
Money talks though so I'm sure USA will be #1 on every corporate mind
Skye Poier
Seattle, WA
Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/
Confused....
Kurt Spitzner, director of the SCCA Performance Rally Department, has been in Britain formulating a plan to introduce international standards of marshaling and timing to ProRally.
I thought Rally America had taken over the timing and operations of rally events. Exactly what are the SCCA's responsibilities vs Rally America?
Kurt Spitzner, director of the SCCA Performance Rally Department, has been in Britain formulating a plan to introduce international standards of marshaling and timing to ProRally.
I thought Rally America had taken over the timing and operations of rally events. Exactly what are the SCCA's responsibilities vs Rally America?
Joined
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967 Posts
RE: Confused....
The part that really confuses me is that the SCCA says it's not pursuing a WRC round. Given their track record that's sure understandable, so why oh why do our SCCA paid staff need all the European travel?
Hey Steve Johnson, you really don't need to go to Monte Carlo to tell Dave Richards you're not interested, send him a letter and use your travel budget to visit potential series sponsors in the USA.
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com
The part that really confuses me is that the SCCA says it's not pursuing a WRC round. Given their track record that's sure understandable, so why oh why do our SCCA paid staff need all the European travel?
Hey Steve Johnson, you really don't need to go to Monte Carlo to tell Dave Richards you're not interested, send him a letter and use your travel budget to visit potential series sponsors in the USA.
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com
Joined
·
768 Posts
RE: Priorities wrong?
"While in England, Spitzner choreographed calendars with the British Rally Championship to allow drivers and teams to compete on both sides of The Pond".
- How about worrying Club guys getting into Pro events? Many who built rally cars in the East quit for a simple reason; they did not get to rally at all.....
- RIM is great, they take 40 Club racers FIRST, then 40 Pros. No wonder it's the oldest ProRally series in the States and still going strong. May even be the WRC in the future if Mr and Mrs Gibeaults want so!
"While in England, Spitzner choreographed calendars with the British Rally Championship to allow drivers and teams to compete on both sides of The Pond".
- How about worrying Club guys getting into Pro events? Many who built rally cars in the East quit for a simple reason; they did not get to rally at all.....
- RIM is great, they take 40 Club racers FIRST, then 40 Pros. No wonder it's the oldest ProRally series in the States and still going strong. May even be the WRC in the future if Mr and Mrs Gibeaults want so!
RE: Confused....
>
>Hey Steve Johnson, you really don't need to go to Monte
>Carlo to tell Dave Richards you're not interested, send him
>a letter and use your travel budget to visit potential
>series sponsors in the USA.
>
>Jim Culp
>prorallypix.com
I couln't agree more. I'm one of the few idiots who actually likes the new direction ProRally is going (the whole Spitzner/conspiracy new world order stuff), but that's becuz I feel it will help promote American drivers. I could care less if it's attractive to foreign competitors, or run up to their standards. This is the sports car club of AMERICA, so we should do what's best for us. We've got TV coverage, manufacturer involvement, a spec series on the horizon, a growing club/feeder series, all of which will help promote American drivers and American rallying. This is what the SCCA should be worrying about. Heck, this is what we PAY them to worry about. Why do we need to go and make it easier the international guys to come buy out our series? Look at CART. All foreign drivers, no interest amongst mainstream Americans. I've stated before that some international drivers in the series are good (lends credibility), but they should wanna come here, and they should play by our rules.
Bottom line, America is the biggest market in the world. The FIA needs us way more than we need them. Why inconvenience our selves and spend mega dollars, make them come to us.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
>
>Hey Steve Johnson, you really don't need to go to Monte
>Carlo to tell Dave Richards you're not interested, send him
>a letter and use your travel budget to visit potential
>series sponsors in the USA.
>
>Jim Culp
>prorallypix.com
I couln't agree more. I'm one of the few idiots who actually likes the new direction ProRally is going (the whole Spitzner/conspiracy new world order stuff), but that's becuz I feel it will help promote American drivers. I could care less if it's attractive to foreign competitors, or run up to their standards. This is the sports car club of AMERICA, so we should do what's best for us. We've got TV coverage, manufacturer involvement, a spec series on the horizon, a growing club/feeder series, all of which will help promote American drivers and American rallying. This is what the SCCA should be worrying about. Heck, this is what we PAY them to worry about. Why do we need to go and make it easier the international guys to come buy out our series? Look at CART. All foreign drivers, no interest amongst mainstream Americans. I've stated before that some international drivers in the series are good (lends credibility), but they should wanna come here, and they should play by our rules.
Bottom line, America is the biggest market in the world. The FIA needs us way more than we need them. Why inconvenience our selves and spend mega dollars, make them come to us.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
RE: Confused....
>>
>>Hey Steve Johnson, you really don't need to go to Monte
>>Carlo to tell Dave Richards you're not interested, send him
>>a letter and use your travel budget to visit potential
>>series sponsors in the USA.
>>
>>Jim Culp
>>prorallypix.com
>
>
>I couln't agree more. I'm one of the few idiots who
>actually likes the new direction ProRally is going (the
>whole Spitzner/conspiracy new world order stuff), but that's
>becuz I feel it will help promote American drivers.
Dennis, this sort of bullsheeeeut is exactly what is "der Neu Welts Ordnung" von der Spitzner is all about.
It is a business view, not a sporting view. The business is PROMOTION.
YOU pay (for your car, for prep or equiv work on the car yourself, for gas and doubling of entry fees etc) and who gets the advantage?
Mitsubishi if you do good and free rides here and there for PRDood and Johnson.
Well YOU'RE not getting a free ticket and hotel and food to fly to the UK to schmooze.
The un-discussed part of the imagined "Professionalization" is the larger and larger entourage of Functionaries which somehow need to be flown to be present (and of course housed and fed and gotten around) and their "need" to fly various places to consult or "see how they do it in.....") since the locals, who are entrusted with all the organisation, working with the local authorities, in fact running rallies _essentially_ identical except milage, need the presence of so many extra guys to read the rule book or make decisions which all too often seem inscrutable, if not simply stupid.
That is the new world order you say you support, so send PRDood and Steve Johnson more dues and fees, they probably need to travel to Tahiti to check on the Asian Pacific round there.
I could
>care less if it's attractive to foreign competitors, or run
>up to their standards. This is the sports car club of
>AMERICA, so we should do what's best for us. We've
(WE*VE???) (No, THEY've!)
got TV
>coverage, manufacturer involvement, a spec series on the
>horizon, a growing club/feeder series, all of which will
>help promote American drivers and American rallying. This
>is what the SCCA should be worrying about. Heck, this is
>what we PAY them to worry about. Why do we need to go and
>make it easier the international guys to come buy out our
>series?
Because it is all about the business of promotion, MFGs want to promote their product, you must understand that they supply the bulk of the money for the TV coverage, so it is only natural that they should have a series which is tailor made to their every whim, and those guys from UK and now Finland have proven records and what do they really car what person gets them their big headlines (which in fact nobody uses in any way significant).
Look at CART. All foreign drivers, no interest
>amongst mainstream Americans.
Could it be that it's because it's boring road racing in cars which don't look like cars but more like water bugs?
I've stated before that some
>international drivers in the series are good (lends
>credibility), but they should wanna come here, and they
>should play by our rules.
I say if they are going to score points, then they should RESIDE here.
When I lived in Sweden, I took a Swedish licence, when I lived in France a French Licence, when I did Internationals, an International licence. Agreed.
>
>Bottom line, America is the biggest market in the world.
>The FIA needs us way more than we need them. Why
>inconvenience our selves and spend mega dollars, make them
>come to us.
Hey Dennis, ..Re: biggest market in the world
I think the 350 million plus in the European market might make that a market very attractive to MFG especially since most of them buy CARS and not the bloated expensive SUVs that consitute the only profitable market sector in North America.
Also just got back from 3 weeks in Commie Red China where there is a small emerging middle class of around 3-4% of the population, not much in per cent but that in NUMBERS is still 45.5 million.
And in many new markets people are jazzed up about owning cars, and seeing cars and motorsports are new and eciting, ( those Godless Commie Chinese have a round of the Asia Pacific series in Shenquan, Guandong Province, about 2 hours north of Hong Kong ferchristsakes!! How do they have an Asia Pacific Round and we don't with our Highly Professional PRDood at the helm for all these years??) rather than here which they are expected appliances and fashion statements primarily. This might be one reason why there is little interest in supporting rally from US mfgs.
And I think it is insane that SCCA people should be allowed waste funds rather than write a letter or a phone call, it's free vacation!
Shame!
Oh, we already know that doesn't work.
Never mind.
In conclusion re WRC in USA: We're not worthy, we're not ready, we're not really any better positioned than when the SCCA announced they were going to have a WRC event in Colorado, then Cherokee.
Too much promotion and hype, not enough reality.
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>>
>>Hey Steve Johnson, you really don't need to go to Monte
>>Carlo to tell Dave Richards you're not interested, send him
>>a letter and use your travel budget to visit potential
>>series sponsors in the USA.
>>
>>Jim Culp
>>prorallypix.com
>
>
>I couln't agree more. I'm one of the few idiots who
>actually likes the new direction ProRally is going (the
>whole Spitzner/conspiracy new world order stuff), but that's
>becuz I feel it will help promote American drivers.
Dennis, this sort of bullsheeeeut is exactly what is "der Neu Welts Ordnung" von der Spitzner is all about.
It is a business view, not a sporting view. The business is PROMOTION.
YOU pay (for your car, for prep or equiv work on the car yourself, for gas and doubling of entry fees etc) and who gets the advantage?
Mitsubishi if you do good and free rides here and there for PRDood and Johnson.
Well YOU'RE not getting a free ticket and hotel and food to fly to the UK to schmooze.
The un-discussed part of the imagined "Professionalization" is the larger and larger entourage of Functionaries which somehow need to be flown to be present (and of course housed and fed and gotten around) and their "need" to fly various places to consult or "see how they do it in.....") since the locals, who are entrusted with all the organisation, working with the local authorities, in fact running rallies _essentially_ identical except milage, need the presence of so many extra guys to read the rule book or make decisions which all too often seem inscrutable, if not simply stupid.
That is the new world order you say you support, so send PRDood and Steve Johnson more dues and fees, they probably need to travel to Tahiti to check on the Asian Pacific round there.
I could
>care less if it's attractive to foreign competitors, or run
>up to their standards. This is the sports car club of
>AMERICA, so we should do what's best for us. We've
(WE*VE???) (No, THEY've!)
got TV
>coverage, manufacturer involvement, a spec series on the
>horizon, a growing club/feeder series, all of which will
>help promote American drivers and American rallying. This
>is what the SCCA should be worrying about. Heck, this is
>what we PAY them to worry about. Why do we need to go and
>make it easier the international guys to come buy out our
>series?
Because it is all about the business of promotion, MFGs want to promote their product, you must understand that they supply the bulk of the money for the TV coverage, so it is only natural that they should have a series which is tailor made to their every whim, and those guys from UK and now Finland have proven records and what do they really car what person gets them their big headlines (which in fact nobody uses in any way significant).
Look at CART. All foreign drivers, no interest
>amongst mainstream Americans.
Could it be that it's because it's boring road racing in cars which don't look like cars but more like water bugs?
I've stated before that some
>international drivers in the series are good (lends
>credibility), but they should wanna come here, and they
>should play by our rules.
I say if they are going to score points, then they should RESIDE here.
When I lived in Sweden, I took a Swedish licence, when I lived in France a French Licence, when I did Internationals, an International licence. Agreed.
>
>Bottom line, America is the biggest market in the world.
>The FIA needs us way more than we need them. Why
>inconvenience our selves and spend mega dollars, make them
>come to us.
Hey Dennis, ..Re: biggest market in the world
I think the 350 million plus in the European market might make that a market very attractive to MFG especially since most of them buy CARS and not the bloated expensive SUVs that consitute the only profitable market sector in North America.
Also just got back from 3 weeks in Commie Red China where there is a small emerging middle class of around 3-4% of the population, not much in per cent but that in NUMBERS is still 45.5 million.
And in many new markets people are jazzed up about owning cars, and seeing cars and motorsports are new and eciting, ( those Godless Commie Chinese have a round of the Asia Pacific series in Shenquan, Guandong Province, about 2 hours north of Hong Kong ferchristsakes!! How do they have an Asia Pacific Round and we don't with our Highly Professional PRDood at the helm for all these years??) rather than here which they are expected appliances and fashion statements primarily. This might be one reason why there is little interest in supporting rally from US mfgs.
And I think it is insane that SCCA people should be allowed waste funds rather than write a letter or a phone call, it's free vacation!
Shame!
Oh, we already know that doesn't work.
Never mind.
In conclusion re WRC in USA: We're not worthy, we're not ready, we're not really any better positioned than when the SCCA announced they were going to have a WRC event in Colorado, then Cherokee.
Too much promotion and hype, not enough reality.
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
RE: Confused....
So if the SCCA said they would pay for your trip to China to ask those "godless commies" (and we wonder why the rest of the world is beginning to despise Americans) how they managed to get a round of the Asia Pacific, you would have said, no!?
Funny, the same sort of bullsheeeeut happened in the late 70's early 80's, you know the golden age you keep referring us back to. The SCCA and NARRA paid a lot of attention to the BUSINESS and PROMOTION end of things and managed, as you have pointed out in the past, to get several manufacturers and sponsors as well as purses. Well, they Feeuccked it up and now have to start all over again, and it seems to me that things are slowly gaining momentum again. Unfortunately, you cannot have one without the other (business and promotion view vs. sporting view)in a sport that costs so much money and resources to run- this is not basketball where you can play it in your driveway!
Since nobody here has accompanied a PRD person on one of these trips, it is just speculation that it is a vacation for them, but as most business people know a personal visit (liaison) has much more weight and effectiveness than an impersonal email, phone call-even if it is just phsycological, it shows that one is serious. I am sure the cost of the trip is a drop in the bucket of the total SCCA money. Who knows, maybe Dave Richards paid for the trip! Now if there is proof that they are taking advantage of these trips, then it is a different story, but we should not assume anything
If Richards/WRC/FIA want a round bad enough in the US, they will make it happen regardless of the SCCA. What's this rally in New York mentioned?
So if the SCCA said they would pay for your trip to China to ask those "godless commies" (and we wonder why the rest of the world is beginning to despise Americans) how they managed to get a round of the Asia Pacific, you would have said, no!?
Funny, the same sort of bullsheeeeut happened in the late 70's early 80's, you know the golden age you keep referring us back to. The SCCA and NARRA paid a lot of attention to the BUSINESS and PROMOTION end of things and managed, as you have pointed out in the past, to get several manufacturers and sponsors as well as purses. Well, they Feeuccked it up and now have to start all over again, and it seems to me that things are slowly gaining momentum again. Unfortunately, you cannot have one without the other (business and promotion view vs. sporting view)in a sport that costs so much money and resources to run- this is not basketball where you can play it in your driveway!
Since nobody here has accompanied a PRD person on one of these trips, it is just speculation that it is a vacation for them, but as most business people know a personal visit (liaison) has much more weight and effectiveness than an impersonal email, phone call-even if it is just phsycological, it shows that one is serious. I am sure the cost of the trip is a drop in the bucket of the total SCCA money. Who knows, maybe Dave Richards paid for the trip! Now if there is proof that they are taking advantage of these trips, then it is a different story, but we should not assume anything
If Richards/WRC/FIA want a round bad enough in the US, they will make it happen regardless of the SCCA. What's this rally in New York mentioned?
RE: Confused....
Rally New York... Great event run by Ivan Orisek. Very near NYC so would be attractive for WRC teams for flights/shipping.... much easier than any other US/Canadian event (Cherokee, Rim, Charlevoix). Difficultues to date have been little support given to Ivan in terms of workers. Not sure whether accomodation could handle it also. However, the roads are fantastic and with some support the event could be amazing. More likely a Pro event than a WRC event. I know that it was considered for ProRally this year but probably failed (don't know for sure) because of the worker issue. Ivan is one of the most passionate and knowledgeable organizers out there and certainly would deserve a round of the ProRally, CNAR or who knows maybe even the WRC calendar.....................
Rally New York... Great event run by Ivan Orisek. Very near NYC so would be attractive for WRC teams for flights/shipping.... much easier than any other US/Canadian event (Cherokee, Rim, Charlevoix). Difficultues to date have been little support given to Ivan in terms of workers. Not sure whether accomodation could handle it also. However, the roads are fantastic and with some support the event could be amazing. More likely a Pro event than a WRC event. I know that it was considered for ProRally this year but probably failed (don't know for sure) because of the worker issue. Ivan is one of the most passionate and knowledgeable organizers out there and certainly would deserve a round of the ProRally, CNAR or who knows maybe even the WRC calendar.....................
RE: Confused....
Ia m not the rally organising expert, I dont know everything thats going on with this topic etc. That said I am not surprised that there isnt a USA WRC event since getting road permission to run a coefficient 3 club rally is quite difficult in many places. There there is the hurdle of finding enough roads, permitted ot be used, with adequate services, hotels, restaurants etc within the necesary distance. As far as roads go i was up in Northern maine last summer and drove about 120 miles of paper company logging roads that put maine summer rally roads to shame. There is enough road up there to have a 1000 mile stage rally, only problem is there isnt anything up there for food and lodging etc.
Seth S
Ia m not the rally organising expert, I dont know everything thats going on with this topic etc. That said I am not surprised that there isnt a USA WRC event since getting road permission to run a coefficient 3 club rally is quite difficult in many places. There there is the hurdle of finding enough roads, permitted ot be used, with adequate services, hotels, restaurants etc within the necesary distance. As far as roads go i was up in Northern maine last summer and drove about 120 miles of paper company logging roads that put maine summer rally roads to shame. There is enough road up there to have a 1000 mile stage rally, only problem is there isnt anything up there for food and lodging etc.
Seth S
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
RE: Confused....
The RNY roads are GREAT! Problem there is, I don't think (or didn't see) enough lodging around for the thousands and thousands of people who would flood the area.
....and the locals running around with shotguns.....
Pete
The RNY roads are GREAT! Problem there is, I don't think (or didn't see) enough lodging around for the thousands and thousands of people who would flood the area.
....and the locals running around with shotguns.....
Pete
RE: Confused....
You think its harder here than any of the rounds in Europe?? Much more heavily populated and much higher environmental standards.
Skye Poier
Seattle, WA
Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/
You think its harder here than any of the rounds in Europe?? Much more heavily populated and much higher environmental standards.
Skye Poier
Seattle, WA
Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/
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