[Andy M]

I have been thinking about a WRC event in the US ever since Rim of the World reverted to being a ClubRally, but after all the talk of Mexico and South Africa getting a WRC event, I have been wondering even more.

I am planning on writing a letter to the FIA asking for some reasons as to why we don`t have a WRC rally in the US, and maybe their answers can shed some light on this (in the unlikely event that they reply). I am also thinking of writing letters to Subaru, Mitsu, and Hyundai telling them how much their involvement in rallying means to people my age (I would not be looking for an Impreza had I not seen so many at Rim, and in the WRC).

But most of the explanations that I`ve heard in the past don`t really add up. The US is by far the largest market for Subaru, Hyundai, and also a large market for Ford (I think they also sell like half their Foci overseas though). Mitsubishi will soon be importing the Lancer (it would be a great way to hype that car), so that only leaves Peugeot, Citroen and Skoda that don`t sell cars here. Given that info, my guess is that the US is a much larger market in general for these cars than is South Africa or Mexico.

Also, I`ve heard that we don`t have the fan base here that they do in other countries. It may be true that we don`t have as many rally fans per capita, but a WRC event would attract far more attention than any SCCA race with the 'Gran Turismo' types, and I am 100, no 110% sure that there would be no problem attracting spectators... The same goes for sponsorship.

Another issue is that both of these countries have committees and boards whose job is to deal with the FIA. I am relatively new to rally, so I don`t know as well as I`d like to how things like this work. Do we have anything like this currently? If not, I would guess that there are at least a few people willing to put in a bit of time in the effort to attract a WRC event. Now, I could be wrong about all of what I said (except the US being a huge market for these cars), because I haven`t been around for that long. But I think I am correct in saying that we need some sort of committee if we want a WRC race in the US. Of course, I am offering my services if people want to act on this, but I am fairly new at this, so I don`t know how much help I can be.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[RichardM]

Ah, the bliss of youth.

 

[Ray]

We don't have the roads, room or people to organize a WRC event. Too much bureaucracy and red tape with local and federal authorities.

Whiplash RallyeSport

 

[Bruce]

I have to disagree about the roads. There are several places in the country where enough roads - and arguably enough infrastructure - exist. Like any business, the problem is startup capital. Given that, it could be done...but it's a large amount. A sponsor would have to be extremely patient to bankroll an event through the FIA observations and things necessary to come up to a WRC event.

Bruce

 

[J Nelson]

Thanks for bring up this much discussed topic. For several years I felt it was a great idea to have a WRC event here, but now I wonder if it is worth it. As several have pointed out, we have plenty of good roads for the actual rally, but organizationally we have come short and the last bit of discussion a year ago was that we should hire some aussies to come over here and run it for us. Then the main crux of the whole situation gets down to money. In the 80s it cost more than a million bucks to put on the Olympus in the NW after all the little bills finally rolled in and it virtually bankrupted rallying in the NWR. Lots of bad vibes came out of that deal and everyone involved wanted it to be great and worked hard at it, but simply it was not financially viable.
Today, it is estimated that it would cost between $10 and 12 million to have a full WRC here. How many sponsors are willing to step up to this for a first time event? I tried to get this notion going here in Reno, NV since we have a huge variety of roads, lots of hotel rooms and somewhat of a show biz ambiance. I approached the local visitors authority who thought it was a great idea....... but there is simply not enough money to do it even with all the casinos kicking in. For them, the return on those kinda bucks is not good. David Hacket is still pursuing this and I wish him well.
My own opinion is that a WRC may well be of no real value here, and that something else needs to be considered.
John Nelson
#382

 

[slidewaysmike]

I personally think that there are quite a few corporations out there who would not have a problem with bankrolling something like a WRC event. Look at Mexico, Corona stepped up to the plate without any problems at all, and what do you know? All of a sudden there is a factory Peugeot team there, and whispers of a WRC round in the land of tequila and federalies. Of course it helped that the organizers of that rally (Patrick Suberville and Gilles Spitalier) had a permanent team of 9 people on the job. Thats what I read anyway.

Someone refresh my memory }> . When was the last time a major corporation other than the participating entities, ( Subaru, Mitsu, Hyundai..etc.. etc.. ) sponsored an SCCA ProRally? I'm pretty sure there is an active thread on this board about CT that mentions something along those lines.

It's no secret that many of the big hitters in WRC, i.e. -David Richards, Malcolm Wilson et al, feel like the US is the most important new venue for them. So all it seems we really need is a dedicated core group of individuals whom can concentrate solely on securing the sponsorship, and the location. Remember, if you build it, they will come.

The only problem I see right now is the fact that most everyone whom is involved in organizing US stage rallies is doing it out of passion, but at the same time has other responsibilities to their families, businesses, or whatever. There isn't a Chris Pook for rallying around in America to step in and kick the crap out of anyone being counter-productive. None that I've seen anyway.

Mike Anderson
85 VW GTI

 

[Trevor Donison]

WRC needs an event in the US more than we need a WRC event in the US. I believe I am on solid ground here as John Buffum himself said the same thing.

With the costs of "small time" ProRally spiraling out of control already, why would we want to put on an event that would be a million times more headaches than any current event. And the kicker would be we "the american performance stage competitors" wouldn't get to participate anyway.

Mr Spitzner would have loved to have a WRC event in Denver. It even got listed on the FIA calendar. Remember that the SCCA had given the "sanctioning" to a group headed by Mr Spitzner. I can only imagine that was so that if a WRC event actually made money that SCCA wouldn't have gotten the money but the organizers. It even had a Non SCCA website.

Costs are out of control in ProRally. The powerful 4wd cars are tearing up the roads like never before. Road fees are getting massive and the first 15 cars on the road are doing 1/2 the damage.

We don't need the cost of stage notes. Bring back $400 ProRally's and $250 clubrally's. Nobody has said so, but the increase in speed has to wear cars much faster than before. It means we have to rebuild our cars much more often at a great cost.

If professionalism means $2000 entry fees and no cars older than 5 years old that will leave pretty much all of us out in the cold.

JV... Sad to say, you've turned me to the dark side. The car I'm building was origionally intended to campaign in the ProRally series. It will be the most developed (and fastest) 2wd Production car in the history of Performance rallying in the United States. But I will support the Western States ClubRally's with it and choose not to participate in the Eastern States ProRally championship.

ProRally will soon only have 15-20 competitors (those that get scored that enter the minimum 5 events). Am I crazy to say this? I don't think so. How many events would you enter that have a $2000 entry fee? This may only be 2 years from now if the costs keep rising linearly.

Resurgent ProRally indeed

I say bring back Grassroots Divisional rally. Might not have had as much exposure, but we could afford it and we had just as much fun.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

We don't need no steeeekin' WRC! We're Federales!

well, Trevor this is linked with my idea of 'no-label' or plain wrapper rally but I think you're maybe beginning to see the idea I have been pushing since '84: that the important thing is the moment, the event, the day, the scene, That DAY, EACH moment.
If that is what we allow ourselves to enjoy, then a series be it little ol' NW Region, or US National series with all the compromises and worries about budgets, finishing points, and everything else will in due course fade away. And if we forget about all that extraneous stuff, then we might just find ourselvers being able to go faster and do better, BETTER mind you. Satisfying on a deeper level, rather than 'exciting' or impressive.

When I started you didn't even need a SCCA license UNLESS you wanted to be scored for year end points.
Then that became obligatory.
No fire suit (not odd considering NO FIRES ever at that point in US rally)
Then that became obligatory.
No big mindless obsession with exact Very Imbecilic Piddle stickers, just a number backer and the local sponsor stickers( Good ol' CutRateAutoParts in Olympia C.R.A.P.) and Bridgestone or whatever.
Then VIP becomes obligatory.

Rally was concieved as a meeting, a gathering, and a contest of a team or crew essentially different from 'racing' which every other language uses for what we call 'road racing'.
Now it is simple mindless speed, with tons of time to fiddle the deicate cars and delicate characters in them.

The whole idea of a 'zone' or in the groove, of effortless and selfless grace which we all are intellectually aware of but I suspect few have KNOWN will only be possible when we all can forget about the whole world including the cost of the car and even oneself and concentrate on the moment to the point we 'disappear'.

And this will never happen when the emphasis is on series long results as opposed to the day or even the stages' results.
Or when costs and efforts are so intrusive that we can only compete sporadicly.

WRC would be here if the big machers in the boardrooms at the top WRC desired it. That fact that it isn't, means the busnessmen who know a bit about advertising and as we all know will plaster prime time TV with endless expensive commercials, do not have faith that the relative small outlays needed to bring it off would be a return on their advertising investment.

We're not worthy!

So bugger them all, let's get back to the future, or retourné a le foutre, heh?














John Vanlandingham

 

[DonSwier]

>Anyone have any ideas?

If you wanna see WRC, the best answer is to catch a flight to Jyvaskala.

 

[Rick277]

C.R.A.P.

>stickers, just a number backer and the local sponsor
>stickers( Good ol' CutRateAutoParts in Olympia C.R.A.P.) and
>Bridgestone or whatever.

Yeah John, let's hear it for Good ol' Cut Rate Auto Parts!
Great bunch of guys, very helpfull, and supportive of rally.
(sorry JV, couldn't resist the plug)

Rick
#277
Sponsors: Hometowne Brake and Muffler, Accent Inc signs and detail, and good ol' Cut Rate Auto Parts.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: C.R.A.P.

>>stickers, just a number backer and the local sponsor
>>stickers( Good ol' CutRateAutoParts in Olympia C.R.A.P.) and
>>Bridgestone or whatever.
>
>Yeah John, let's hear it for Good ol' Cut Rate Auto Parts!
>Great bunch of guys, very helpfull, and supportive of rally.
>(sorry JV, couldn't resist the plug)
>
>Rick
>#277
>Sponsors: Hometowne Brake and Muffler, Accent Inc signs and
>detail, and good ol' Cut Rate Auto Parts.
No problemo Rickardo!
That local connection is exactly what we should be shooting to establish and cement, foundations which we can build on; resonable investments on their part for immediately visible local long term returns.
We need a base, a foundation, a fond, grunden, pied a terre.

The economic 'elite' will take care of itself, even if they have to completely fabricate the results be it rally or 'Big Business' as we are seeing is painfully obvious every evening.

bugger 'em.

All power to the Pro-le Ralliat!

And that includes Rally Rat-suns!
when we gonna put my friend's 'warm' L20B into your car since he doesn't need it now that he has his FJ20 in his 510?
and what about real suspenders?













John 11:35

John Vanlandingham

 

[Sean Lucas]

I recall reading somewhere, that the host country of a new WRC event requires a minimum of 30 FIA spec cars running in the event prior to acceptance. Mexico (Corona) has again approach the Barbados Rally club in an attempt to get some of the local cars to run there. We have 3 WRC's , 2 or 3 A8's and about 4 N4's.

 

[Trevor Donison]

RE: We don't need no steeeekin' WRC! We're Federales!

>well, Trevor this is linked with my idea of 'no-label' or
>plain wrapper rally but I think you're maybe beginning to
>see the idea I have been pushing since '84: that the
>important thing is the moment, the event, the day, the
>scene, That DAY, EACH moment.
>If that is what we allow ourselves to enjoy, then a series
>be it little ol' NW Region, or US National series with all
>the compromises and worries about budgets, finishing points,
>and everything else will in due course fade away. And if we
>forget about all that extraneous stuff, then we might just
>find ourselvers being able to go faster and do better,
>BETTER mind you. Satisfying on a deeper level, rather than
>'exciting' or impressive.
>
>When I started you didn't even need a SCCA license UNLESS
>you wanted to be scored for year end points.
>Then that became obligatory.
>No fire suit (not odd considering NO FIRES ever at that
>point in US rally)
>Then that became obligatory.
>No big mindless obsession with exact Very Imbecilic Piddle
>stickers, just a number backer and the local sponsor
>stickers( Good ol' CutRateAutoParts in Olympia C.R.A.P.) and
>Bridgestone or whatever.
>Then VIP becomes obligatory.
>
>Rally was concieved as a meeting, a gathering, and a contest
>of a team or crew essentially different from 'racing' which
>every other language uses for what we call 'road racing'.
>Now it is simple mindless speed, with tons of time to fiddle
>the deicate cars and delicate characters in them.
>
>The whole idea of a 'zone' or in the groove, of effortless
>and selfless grace which we all are intellectually aware of
>but I suspect few have KNOWN will only be possible when we
>all can forget about the whole world including the cost of
>the car and even oneself and concentrate on the moment to
>the point we 'disappear'.
>
>And this will never happen when the emphasis is on series
>long results as opposed to the day or even the stages'
>results.
>Or when costs and efforts are so intrusive that we can only
>compete sporadicly.
>
>WRC would be here if the big machers in the boardrooms at
>the top WRC desired it. That fact that it isn't, means the
>busnessmen who know a bit about advertising and as we all
>know will plaster prime time TV with endless expensive
>commercials, do not have faith that the relative small
>outlays needed to bring it off would be a return on their
>advertising investment.
>
>We're not worthy!
>
>So bugger them all, let's get back to the future, or
>retourné a le foutre, heh?
>

Wasn't the early days of rallying just an excuse to party? I've heard about some good parties at the end of some of the late 70's stage rallies... Where did the partying go? Now thats what we should investigate to the fullest...

 

[Andy M]

Well, I wasn`t suggesting that WRC will ever replace SCCA. But I think it would be fun to be able to see the WRC 'aces' drive without spending a ton of money and going to some place where they either drive on the wrong side of the road or don`t speak english. Of course, local rallying will always offer the most opportunity for the average competitor, worker, and spectator, WRC would be a really good event to be able to look forward to once a year. Not to mention the fact that a WRC rally in the US would get many, many more people interested in rally, and I am sure a lot of people would then find out about SCCA and become involved. Maybe not driving, but spectating and supporting.

 

[RMACQUEE]

Everybody speaks english - watch the SPEED channel.

 

[B]

The only way WRC will come here is if the rally is set up so the SPECTATOR comes first. Current U.S. rallies are not.

 

[robin]

>The only way WRC will come here is if the rally is set up so
>the SPECTATOR comes first. Current U.S. rallies are not.

It seems to me that large numbers of spectators tend to be a hindrance at WRC events - cancelled stages, people being hit. Sure - exposure, but it pales in comparison to the TV numbers.

The whole question is one of money. David Richards, in relation to the possibility of a South African round, recently indicated that the infrastructure necessary for running a WRC event is completely mobile - it comes with the event. In the same breath he said that in order to bring an event would take $1 million up front to get it rolling, and another $1 million at the event (presumably these are the WRC costs - the other costs related to promotion, roads, workers etc would be extra)

So, IMHO, the only way the WRC event will come here is if there's a beer or cigarette co. willing to act as title sponsor.

Robin