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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
- A question:
- Why did Doug Shephard try to squize by others?
- He was running between 10th and 15th place in stage times. Hardly going for overall honours like he did in summer rallies.
- The guy ahead, not in same class, was 7 min away.
- The next guy heahind, in same class, was 28 min away.

- So why bother to improve stage starting position?
 

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>- A question:
>- Why did Doug Shephard try to squize by others?
>- He was running between 10th and 15th place in stage times.
>Hardly going for overall honours like he did in summer
>rallies.
>- The guy ahead, not in same class, was 7 min away.
>- The next guy heahind, in same class, was 28 min away.
>
>- So why bother to improve stage starting position?

OK. Maybe you haven't read everything else on this subject, so I'll make it brief.

The stage was hot.
The clock was running.
Doug saw a path to the timing line and took it, thereby stopping his clock.
This is known as racing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The stage was hot.
The clock was running.
Doug saw a path to the timing line and took it, thereby stopping his clock.
This is known as racing.

-----------------------------
Thanks! That explains why an experiend guy would do it....
 

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The key to success is combining:

1) Experience
with
2) Good judgment
and
3) Adaptation to the modern environment

Apparently one out of three = probation (in this era).
 

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>- A question:
>- Why did Doug Shephard try to squize by others?
>- He was running between 10th and 15th place in stage times.
>Hardly going for overall honours like he did in summer
>rallies.
>- The guy ahead, not in same class, was 7 min away.
>- The next guy heahind, in same class, was 28 min away.
>
>- So why bother to improve stage starting position?

It wasn't to improve road position. We knew we could correct that later. It was, as Joe pointed out, to stop the clock. But it was also to get clear of the fiasco that was soon to develop at the finish control.

Bob Martin
 
G

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Under what circumstances should the vehicles in question not passed the line of cars?

When is it not acceptable to make contact with another competitors vehicle?
 
G

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Do you have a machine that autogenerates useless answers or is it something you are actually putting effort into?
 

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>
>
>When is it not acceptable to make contact with another
>competitors vehicle?
>
>
>

That's another good question. If you catch a competitor on stage, to what extent do you go, to get by? If this is "racing", go ahead give him a wake up call and slam his rear bumper, maybe you can even punt him off at a corner! I have lots of experience with this from road racing. But I thought this was Rally. We race the clock, not door to door.

IMO - There are not many excuses in rally to hit another competitors car. If you catch someone on stage, they move over to let you by and you accidently brush each other or clip a mirror becauses it's tight, well OK. But if there's a stuck or broken car on the side of the road with triangles out, and you hit it, that's stupid.
 

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>>
>>
>>When is it not acceptable to make contact with another
>>competitors vehicle?
...
>
>IMO - There are not many excuses in rally to hit another
>competitors car. If you catch someone on stage, they move over
>to let you by and you accidently brush each other or clip a
>mirror becauses it's tight, well OK. But if there's a stuck or
>broken car on the side of the road with triangles out, and you
>hit it, that's stupid.


There's no reason to hit someone intentionally, or to not do everything in your power to not hit someone while passing.

But it's not always easy. Remember that no less than Pat Richard hit a disabled Ramana Lagemann's car on Joy's ranch at SnoDrift last year. Took off a mirror and did some body damage. A snowbank can bump you back into the middle of the road in a flash.

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.

(uhhh - I am getting old. Did Ramana hit Pat? I think it was Pat on Ramana. If it was the other way around it may have been related to Ramana's steering failure and so would be a bad example - someone correct me if that's the case)
A.
 

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>(uhhh - I am getting old. Did Ramana hit Pat? I think it was
>Pat on Ramana. If it was the other way around it may have been
>related to Ramana's steering failure and so would be a bad
>example - someone correct me if that's the case)
>A.
>


Not sure if pat hit ramana... but Otis sure did. Which is funny, because Otis hit his current group N car with his then PGT car....

Not many people can admit to hitting their own race car during an event.... :7
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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OK - All that I know of the event being discussed here is what Dougie and/or his team shared with me or that I overheard sitting at their table at the post-rally pizza & beer letting, so I'll not comment on the incident itself. What I will do is share this SnoTortoise in-car video and set-up:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/SD2005/SD05Pass.mpg

We were one of many teams who succumbed to a banner-down-straight-at-junction where we should have turned right. By the time we got turned around and ready to turn left at that intersection the WRX seen ahead of us on video arrived there, saw us and negotiatied the turn properly. We caught up with him a little later and stayed close until he stopped to assist his stuck teammate.

When I turn right to get past the WRX that stopped in the middle of the road I'm forced to drive through a large, unseen-on-film, drift that, thankfully, hid no stump, large rock or other immovable object. As you can see/hear in the piece, I barely hesitate before comitting to going around them but had there been something of substance under the drift we'd have certainly bounced off it and into the closest Rex. Similarly, had the codriver chosen to open his door at the time of our passing there would have been some interesting damage done to both cars.

So I'm not saying this is or isn't similar to what Doug and Iorio went through, but I am telling you that based on decades of experience I knew I had to make the move while I still had a little momentum or I'd be stuck on that drift or waiting for them to complete the extrication. 2WD, no matter what the power plant, is a platform that requires serious momentum management when things get weird and one is forced to charge through new snow to keep heading toward the finish control. I chose to charge ahead and this incident turned out OK. Other's results may vary ...

Halley ...
RWD and normally-aspirated ROCKS, let's get it on in Group F!
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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>Exactly.
>Nice video Mike. You did the right thing.

Thanks!

>But you need a better camera mount. My eyes are jiggling.

That was my first attempt at in-car with my own equipment. Santa (who looked distressingly like my father-in-law) left me an I/O Port mount and I scored a little-used, rather tallish Sony HandyCam SC5 with a ton of accesories off ebay for cheap. I clearly need to tether the thing to elimante the shaking, remember to set the aperture for the wider view (something I was doing during this - http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/SD2005/SheLikes.mpg - and most of the other stages Kala and I captured), and then remember more often to turn the damned thing on before starting a stage!

>Was that the Ranch?

Yes sir - the ranch. Did I mention it was bloody cold up there?

:eek:

>ACP
>Flirting with the laws of physics.

Halley ...
Muddying the Group 5 Regional waters with a Prod-legal Bug ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 
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thanks for sharing your experiences.

Obviously we all have to make our own decisions, but it's useful to gauge what sort of decisions are not considered acceptable.


I got stuck on an uphill on SS9 after stalling going around another stuck car.

My car wouldn't immediately restart and we were only able to get it just off the road enough for a series of cars to rub by.

All 3 or 4 of them rubbed my bumper, but they all also waited for me to get the car mostly out of the way, and to move my person to a safer location, as well as passing at a slowish speed.

Nothing got hurt, despite the close quarters, and no one felt unsafe or in harms way.
 

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The "this is racing" excuse is a sorry one, that's not the type of racing we do. Everyone in line was screwed, and you could be pretty sure that the leg would be thrown out or end up with the same bogey time everyone else would get. A gentleman would have waited for his turn just like everyone else, apparently Shepard isn't a gentleman - totally blew my previous good impression of him. I wonder what his sponsor thinks?

Mike - That's a sweet video! That was Okula stopping to pull Dimiters out of the snow bank. Okula had only just purchased that car and had stuffed it on his first shakedown run, so he was taking it easy.

Alex
 

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>The "this is racing" excuse is a sorry one, that's not the
>type of racing we do.

Okay then. We'll change it to 'That's stage rallying" becuase it is!
 

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No its not.

I've had many instances in my rally career when the guy in front of me wouldn't move over (sometimes he may have not seen me, other times I know he did) and I could have given him the "chrome horn," but I did not. Those aren't tire walls, they are trees. We play a different game. I've settled it afterwards rather than be a dick. I expect the same from the guys around me.
 
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