[randyzimmer]

I just sent the following to the Performance Rally Department.
at:
[email protected]
----
Who's rules are you using?
Although I never agreed with it, rule 9.1 A par. 3 "5 event rule" is printed on page 85.
Last I looked Tom McGeer only entered two events.
Need I look further?
What is the story here?
What rules are we using NOW?

OPEN
Driver TOTAL Co-Driver TOTAL
David Higgins 133 Steve Turvey 110
Mark Higgins 113 Daniel Barritt 88
Mark Lovell 111 Michael Gibson 68
Paul Choiniere 69 Garry Cowan 66
Rhys Millen 66 Michael Kidd 56
Ramana Lagemann 58 Jeff Becker 47
Mark Nelson 42 Charles Bradley 42
Doug Havir 34 Scott Putnam 34
Tom McGeer 27 Mark Williams 27
Paul Dunn 24 Scott Huhn 24

Randy Zimmer

 

[Dave Kean]

I sometimes think this stuff is being made up as they go along...

9.1.a states "minimun qualifying criteria..... shall be entering and participating in at least 5 SCCA ProRally championship events"

I don't agree with it but it's been there all year and is not a suprise to anyone.

There was no award for second place driver or codriver in G5, Dave and Rick were the only ones to do 5 events in the class. The rule states all you need to do 5 events, it does not say in the same class.

Doug Shepherd and Pete Gladysz took part in more than 5 events and some of those were in G5, in the G5 standings they are the second placed people who did the minimum qualifying 5 events.

They fulfilled 9.1.a and should have been second driver and codriver in G5...

Jusy food for thought...

Dave Kean

 

[jmullan]

[blockquote]>Who's rules are you using?[/blockquote]

"whose"

[blockquote]>Although I never agreed with it, rule 9.1 A par. 3 "5 event
>rule" is printed on page 85.
>Last I looked Tom McGeer only entered two events.
>Need I look further?
>What is the story here?
>What rules are we using NOW?[/blockquote]

[blockquote]Minimum qualifying criteria for Driver and Co-Driver SCCA ProRally Championships (Overall, Open, Group 2, Group 5, Production, Production GT, Group A, and Group N) shall be entering and participating in at least 5 SCCA ProRally Championship events.[/blockquote]

The last time that I heard this explained, one is not prevented from receiving one's points - but only persons who enter at least five events are eligible for the year-end championship.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

>
>The last time that I heard this explained, one is not
>prevented from receiving one's points - but only persons who
>enter at least five events are eligible for the year-end
>championship.

Huh? what are points for if not to calculate year-end champignon-skit standings?

Lets have the geniuses who invented this brilliant rule invoke their "new rule upon notification" rule, and excise this 'not too well thought out attempt at whatever' rule retroactively.

What was the alleged Point of this thing?
Don't rules have to have a purpose?





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

 

[randyzimmer]

HUH?

No matter if this rule had a valid purpose, I'm sure that some people spent dollars they wouldn't have to meet the requirement and to drop the rule now would make them more than just miffed.
After this season's on the spot rule making, no rule is to believed.
I can't type enough %&$#**&!s to show how I feel.
rz

 

[Kartwheel]

RE: HUH?

Kommrad Zimmer! Your insolent defeatist attitude has been noted! We may have to have a Political Commisar administer negative feedback training for you if you are not careful.

 

[jeff burmeister]

RE: HUH?

Guys

If there is a rule that you disagree with, feel is unfair, or you didn't realize what given to the community for responses last year. Please send a your thoughts and comments to the PRB.

This is still a club, your voice is mute here if you don't back it up with an Official Notice to the PRB.

You guys should know their email address by now... I would hope.

Jeff Burmeister
SpecialStage.com LLC

 

[randyzimmer]

rules are rules

Jeff,
I believed the rule that was made and printed in the book was the rule, but that same rule wasn't followed by the people who dreamed it up!
I wanted to make top ten and I figured I could if I entered all the events and others didn't make the five required, I wanted to use the rule to my benefit (which was a personal goal with no monetary or professional value).
THAT is my question. If it wasn't going to be followed, why have it.
If it wasn't meant to be followed the way it was written, it needed to be written better.
I am just sick of the waffling and inconsistancy.
Make any rule you want but stick to it.
rz
ps:
The mail address at the bottom of the points grid didn't work and my message was returned undeliverable.

 

[Jim]

RE: rules are rules

The Performance Rally Department can be reached by E-mail at: [email protected]

phone: 1-800-770-2055
fax: (303) 694-3654

 

[randyzimmer]

e-mail

As I said, I DID send the string starter message to that address and got this back...
"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

[email protected]"


I sent it again to KS and SJ at SCCA directly.
No response back yet.
---
I've been told by some to cut some slack, but none's been offered to me.
---
To reinterate,
If the results are not in their final form, they should not be labeled "FINAL"
That type of mistake is just too sloppy for paid professionals when volunteers do more with less.
---
Check out,
http://www.rallyracingnews.com/scca/points-10-02-5events.html
---
Organizers all year put on rally after rally with their own money, time and effort. If there is a problem, they work hard to correct it and I know they care. There is no shame shown in ProRally HQ and that's what irks me, an underlying contempt for the people "served".
rz

 

[logicallychallenged]

"cut some slack"

<<I've been told by some to cut some slack, but none's been offered to me.>>

RZ, what!!!! What fool would back not following the rules as published? Don't listen to these clowns that want you to back off. If a rule is implemented, good or bad, it needs to be either deleted, changed to correct errors or changes, or followed.

What the hell else is a rule?

 

[throttleXsteer]

RE: "cut some slack"

Stick to it Randy. Dont back off. You worked hard and by the rules. Protest to every T of them.

 

[Widget Codriver]

You're not alone

>Stick to it Randy. Don't back off. You worked hard and by
>the rules. Protest to every T of them.

Randy, I'm fighting the same battle. The Director of Performance Rally insists that 9.1.G applies to override 9.1.A (it doesn't). Aside from the fact that the rule itself stinks and should be rescinded, I played by the rule.

One reason I decided to spend beaucoup bucks for LSPR was because I might earn 3rd place in Production. (Other reasons include because I'm a "rally ho" and I enjoy hanging out with all you rally pals!)

If I had known that the DirPR would arbitrarily override the rule, I might have opted to wait a week to get my rally fix.

Who's job is it to enforce the rules? I've been advised by my road racing steward friends that it's time to take it to the SCCA Board of Directors.

More to follow, but I've been in Arizona the last few days enjoying the Prescott Forest Rally challenge so stay tuned.

[hr]

[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com

 

[randyzimmer]

Logically Challenged get a new room-mate

"insists that 9.1.G applies to override 9.1.A"
It would take a Senior Senator from an Eastern state to make a new rule that was unpopular and then say it was overridden by an existing one.
That is pure stupidity.
If the rule isn't legal, it shouldn't have wasted the page in the book.
Andrew, now that the RX7 is back you should enter it, there's probably a rule that negates the 20 year one, we just haven't found it yet.
rz

 

[AlanPerry]

RE: You're not alone

Could someone please explain the logic behind how 9.1.G could be applied to override 9.1.A? I don't get it.

I have supplied each section below, so you don't need to pull out your rule book?

alan

9.1.G. Points earned in one category or class are not transferable to any other category or class.

9.1.A. ProRally Series Championships
Each year the SCCA shall recognize ProRally Series Championships
in two categories that shall be known as driver and co-driver. The
ProRally Overall Series Championship for the driver will be awarded
the John Wolfe Cup and the co-driver will be awarded the Grant
Whitaker Cup.

Competitors in the Open Class, Production Class (Production and
Rallytruck Class combined), Production GT, Group 5, Group 2, Group
A and Group N shall also be eligible for separate championships for
drivers and co-drivers. Competitors running 2WD vehicles shall be
eligible for the 2WD Overall Driver (Woodner Cup) and 2WD Overall
Co-Driver championships.

Minimum qualifying criteria for Driver and Co-Driver SCCA ProRally
Championships (Overall, Open, Group 2, Group 5, Production,
Production GT, Group A, and Group N) shall be entering and
participating in at least 5 SCCA ProRally Championship events.

In case of ties in final point standings, they will be resolved
according to each competitor's record of 1st place finishes, then
if necessary, the number of 2nd place finishes, then if necessary,
the number of 3rd place finishes, and so on, down to 10th position.
All events entered will be considered for tiebreakers.

 

[Kartwheel]

RE: You're not alone

I dont agree with it, but I think it was clear that they intended for you to have to enter five events in ONE class, not a total of five in various classes and it just got worded wrong. I have every confidence that it will be reworded soon to reflect that, afterall we cant have folks jumping from one class to another all year long now can we? What would be the fun in that?

Oh, wait, I forgot were not doing this for fun.

 

[Glenn Wallace]

RE: You're not alone

> but I think it was clear that they intended for you to have to enter five events in ONE class

If they intended it, they should have said it. It isn't rocket science to put the words together.

Glenn

 

[jandreini]

RE: You're not alone

None of this explains how drivers & co-drivers with fewer than 5 starts total got listed in ANY of the final standings.

 

[Adrian Wintle]

RE: You're not alone

>None of this explains how drivers & co-drivers with fewer
>than 5 starts total got listed in ANY of the final
>standings.

Maybe because it would look bad to have classes with only one or two competitors listed? It would make it look like the series wasn't in a state of health...

Adrian

 

[Rallymedik]

RE: You're not alone

Actually there is only two class's with two finishes...and they only give awards to the top two anyways.


OPEN Driver

David Higgins 133
Mark Higgins 113
Mark Lovell 111


FIA - GROUP N Driver TOTAL

Ralph Kosmides 41
Tim O'Neil 40
Mark Utecht 19


PRODUCTION GT Driver TOTAL

Bob Henderson 119
Roland McIvor 48


PRODUCTION Driver TOTAL

Jon Hamilton 94
Jamie Thomas 74
Jeff Field 63


GROUP 5 Driver TOTAL

Dave Hintz 100
Doug Shepherd 36
Robert Olson 25


GROUP 2 Driver TOTAL

Lauchlin O'Sullivan 135
Eric Burmeister 116
Matthew Johnson 55


OPEN Co-Driver TOTAL


Steve Turvey 110
Daniel Barritt 88
Michael Gibson 68


FIA - GROUP N Co-Driver TOTAL


Jimmy Brantz 43
Martin Headland 40
Jeff Secor 19


PRODUCTION GT Co-Driver TOTAL

John McArthur 111
Bill Montgomery 28


PRODUCTION Co-Driver TOTAL

Dave Weiman 114
Ken Sabo 77
Conrad Ketelsen 15


GROUP 5 Co-Driver TOTAL

Rick Hintz 100
Conrad Ketelsen 25
Pete Gladysz 22


GROUP 2 Co-Driver TOTAL

Matt Chester 113
Eric Adams 104
Mark Bowers 32