[jfd986]

Super duper true... I've had a rally where I won my class, clenched a championship and had almost no fun. and I've finished dead last and had a blast..

All you can get out of rally is Fun, improved driving skills, and amazing experiences. the real secret is to "race to the bottom" and find the cheapest formula that works for YOU to have fun.

I'm partial to FWD imprezas, because I got my start there. .and I have figured out a fairly cheap formula for them (finally, though a bit too late)

really an OBX torsen front diff for $370 + $260 for a 4.44 final drive (would have to be a 95 Gear box, not a 93 or 94) and labor which is either free because its you and friends. or a ton at a shop ... ($750 ish) and your slow fwd IMP is a ... less slow FWD Imp..

BUT others have figured out cheapy formulas for other cars as well. the big advantage to doing an impreza (fwd) is that you can bum parts off all the other impreza teams.

The big down side is your car will weight 400 pounds over that of a Golf or something, and they will likely beat you every time.. LOL but I had a lot of fun.


Golfs seem to have better gear box and final drive options, but you also have to PAY for that.


Repairs In the USA, for imprezas of the GC era are still dirt cheap. super cheap. but that will probably change in about 5 to 10 years. maybe sooner.

I hardly see any GD era imprezas coming into pick and pulls but soon really soon that will change.

Okay, I think we're getting closer to the car I'm looking for now.

I want something that's 1) cheap 2) Easy to find parts for if they break and 3) Those parts are cheap

Secondary priority is given to being cheap to upgrade.

From what I'm hearing, the golf has 1) and 2), it may have 3, but it doesn't have 4. The impreza has 1 and 4, it doesn't have 2 and 3.

Which car has 1, 2, 3 AND 4 ? That's the car I'm looking for.

 

[Morison]

Volvo 240

 

[heymagic]

Impreza or Honda both meet the requirements better actually, if you consider the effort to get them on stage in a semi competitive manor.

 

[northcoast]

Impreza or 90-94 Legacy meets 1-4. Plus the community support and knowledge base for these cars is huge, not to mention the Subaru contingency money for some RA events.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Impreza or Honda both meet the requirements better actually, if you consider the effort to get them on stage in a semi competitive manor.

Says the man who admits he's never (seriously) worked on a Volvo, and is clearly contemptuous of them....

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Show me a ring and pinion shorter than 4.44. for the Subaru...


Show me a reliable ring and pinion shorter than what 4.1

So, since there are none,

what is a Group 2 or Group 5 or even a "Wawwy Wite" Subie driver going to do for IF HE DECIDES HE WANTS gearing----like the guys in RWD cars can get in a variety of ratios for under $200 new?

Drive around with 4.1 and pretend he's styling and dominating?

Show me the gears..LINK

These "debates" get ridiculous when partisan "brand fan-bois get involved or when people without the desire to ever build their ever so close to street cars into rally cars and who don't have a clue of the role of final drive in making a car go quick---or are prematurely senile and fogot they used to use short short gearing---
Its silly.

 

[jfd986]

Okay guys, there are more Hondas around, and I'm exhausted with this decision, so I'm gonna go with Hondas. Is the crx really that cramped? I'm 5'5 140 will I notice it? I know, short wheelbase...but still, what about the crx?

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Okay guys, there are more Hondas around, and I'm exhausted with this decision, so I'm gonna go with Hondas. Is the crx really that cramped? I'm 5'5 140 will I notice it? I know, short wheelbase...but still, what about the crx?

For fucks sake why would you even think about a car like that?
Do you even bother to look at what seems to work out there in the wider world..
Honda DOES make some pretty OK candidates...the ones with wheelbases someplace over about 97" but under 104"...
CRX?

You trollin.

(this is another way of asking "What particular advantage do you think a CRX offers over say some non-ridiculously short car?")

 

[northcoast]

ROFL...God bless you John. First time I've ever been labeled as partisan brand fan-boi but I'll take it even though I love any petrol powered gravel machine gun. Alex and myself are both aware of the pitfalls of not being able to get a R&P better than 4.44. If anyone can find something better I'm positive you would make our blue and gold, every constellation is Pleiades, world that much brighter.

 

[jfd986]

Alright so then what would be a good candidate within Honda? I thought about the CRX because it's a hatchback, looks decent enough to me, there are a few of them around where I live, I heard they were half-decent in the speed category, and I'd be excited about owning and building one up.

If anyone has any suggestions as to some two-wheel-drive, old Honda car with specific model and year that I should build up that won't break the bank, and would give me more performance points than a CRX, then I'm open to hearing about it.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Go watch some vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIG-AHPe32o

Contrary to the contrarians gravel is gravel, tires are tires, cars are cars, and those Finns have access to the same cars we have--and more.
Look at other clips from this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIG-AHPe32o you know? click on his name and theres dozens.

Look what cars they drive...
And wonder why.

 

[A1337STI]

Well a lot of cars are Good candidates, depending on your point of view you can get to Great, but nothing is perfect.

I see VW racing gear boxes for around $4500

I see T5 racing transmissions for about $1800 (Same as a JDM impreza transmission ... btw)

You certainly don't need amazing gearing to start off in. But up to the point where its scares the crap out of you, Acceleration is Fun!

Sort of depends what your baseline normal is too. I've owned a 2005 STI Since 2006, and i got into rally in 2008. I drive my sti in the snow/dirt, etc a bunch. so It did not take me long at all to realize my rally car is insanely slow. didn't take much longer for that to start eating into the fun factor.

Now if my daily driver was something slower (like a BRZ) my opinion of my rally car would be a bit different.

I think the a subaru Are the KAZZ ones, but they don't make them any more. these are good :
http://www.mrtperformance.com.au/files/stories/products/transmission/ALL-MRT-ratios-data.pdf

or Msport. either route i believe is right around $3,000 for the gear set . you can go 4.44 but that probably stops being a viable option around 300 whp / WTQ ... depending on where you source your parts from ... (IE brand new forrester R&P or ancient jdm stuff)

http://www.tomiokaracing.com/index.php/products/drivetrain/close-ratio-gear-set-for-subaru-gc8.html is actually cheaper looks to be $2500 (Too rich for my blood)

.972 5th combined with a 4.44 final with 185/65 tires gives you a top speed of 118 mph (if you have a 7250 red line) .. Which would be Great for an Open Light car. good driving plus that would = many class wins and a few over alls.
Or on a G2 model 97 mph with a 6K redline, a speed you'de actually hit even with a 1.8L

those gear ratios can be found in a JDM transmission for about $1800.

Which ya sucks vs a pick and pull find.



according to http://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/ the volvo 240 0-60: 16.1 with a Quarter Mile: 19.7
Impreza L 0-60: 10.5 Quarter Mile: 17.7 (mine tested at 12 and 19 seconds though with rally tires on and at high attitude)

so in Stock form its gonna big a Dog (same with the impreza) either car really is Begging for some final drive help / Gearing help.

Thing is final drive options for a RWD car are nearly infinite , and much cheaper if you have to pay for labor. much easier if you are doing the work.

What about a 240 SX does that styling agree with you more?

 

[heymagic]

John, you ignorant slut, I have worked on Volvos, for many years. Brought my son home from birth in a 245 wagon. Owned my first Volvo in 1972. Not sure where you get your facts...maybe some Euro forum?

So here's the deal, in the real world, at real rallies, which I work,watch,organize. No one needs more than 4.44 gears, especially with more than 150 hp. Hondas work, I never saw a Volvo beat Cody Crane...in fact the last Volvo I saw that was even competitive is Lane's over the top sledge hammer. I watched Andrew Havas destroy the 2wd field at Oregon Trail in a very low spec Civic built by Derek Nelson. I have seen several Volvos fail at Olympus the last couple years. Crap happens. I watched Lou Beck beat Adam Cranes Corolla at Mount Hood in a very stock Focus.

So yes a Volvo will work, but so will nearly every other car made. You seem to take the rejection of a Volvo as a rejection of you personally...it isn't. We reject you personally for many other reasons . I can take a Cavalier, add a 4 link rear diff, build suspension boxes, mount a 2.0/2.2/2.4 ecotek with no more work than required of an old Volvo. A stock 240 is a very pathetic pos performance wise, horrible back in the day, worse now as there are so many better performing cars made. Irregardless of Finnish results or Padden in a $100K Escort.
a·nom·a·ly
əˈnäməlē/
noun
noun: anomaly; plural noun: anomalies
1.
something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.
"there are a number of anomalies in the present system"

synonyms:

oddity, peculiarity, abnormality, irregularity, inconsistency, incongruity, aberration, quirk, rarity "the growth on the duck's bill is a harmless anomaly"

So please remember than I have easily 10 times the stage miles of you, RWD/FWD/AWD. Keith has probably more than that. Alex has more stage miles than you. In fact the only people with less stage miles than you are the noobs you try so hard to lure into your web. You regurgitate all your vast experience from Euro forums...you are what you seem to hate the most. And not to try and discredit you..you can make some weird parts that make cars perform better. You should concentrate more on 'bidness' and less on politics but that is totally your decision.

Got a business license yet btw?

This will be the last post I ever acknowledge you directly in btw, I have way better things to do with my time.

Any Honda after 1988 with a b series swap and mediocre suspension will do the trick. CRX is a proven car here in the USofA. Matt Pullens 6 week Ranger build did the trick. Many ways to skin a cat and many ways to see the MTC at a rally.

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Check with a doctor Gene, you're going insane...

Completely utterly insane....10 times the stage miles... Delusions...3-4 maybe..

But numb nuts, only you and a few othwer bitter frogs-at-thebottom-of-a-well seem to think that all knowledge has to gotten in low powered cars in low attendance little events....as you did so long ago.



Since you are an low culture type guy I'm sure you never heard the story of the frog living in the bottom of the well....Apologies to Chuang-tzu

He was happy and had eveything he needed. He was the king of his world..I betcha he used words like you do "I dominated with Tokikos, nobody needs anything more".
But a bird landed on the edge of the well and saw him down in the bottom--and yeah he was splashing around and puffing himself up like you do but the bird thought how sad to live his whole life in the bottom of a well so he called out and said "don't you want out so you can be free and see the wide world?"
You, the frog said No I have everything I need.. I am the master of the world"

The bird said but don't you want to see the sky?, its so amazing and beautiful and you can go anywhere."
And the frog at the bottom of the well said "Don't tell me about the sky, I know EVERYTHING about the sky... Its blue and about this big: O"

Poor Gene in the bottom of a well...

 

[jfd986]

So my baseline normal is an '86 944. I think I'd be sufficiently excited to start off in something that would do 110-140 hp. I took the 944 to a rally cross a while ago against my best judgment and had a blast.

Sooo I asked for suggestions, and I did get some, aannndd I'm going with the CRX, b/c there are many more to choose from around my area than there are 240s, beemers or nissan 240sxes (yes I did look, yes the styling is nice ) and the price point is good for me. I don't really know how a wheelbase changes things (I think longer is better on straights, and shorter is quicker for turns, although some would argue 'in the right hands etc etc etc'), or what a "4.44 final drive" is, so I'm just gonna take everyone's word for whatever on that, I guess.

I asked for advice, and in a way I did get it, but it was interspersed amongst a lot of other stuff. If I may offer some feedback, I haven't met any of you, but if and when I do ... honestly I just hope there's less minutiae and less bickering. I'm sure everything you guys are saying is important in some way, but I barely understand most of it. I mean, I thought you guys were all friends in some way, that may have been an inappropriate assumption based mostly on being part of the internet generation and expecting a certain mutual respect among those with experience on a forum. I gotta say, there doesn't seem to be as much camaraderie on here as I thought there previously was in this sport in general, although I am still reasonably optimistic since many insist it exists. One of you said a while ago that you were interested in getting people into rally and keeping them in rally, and the discussion on this thread isn't entirely congruent with that.

I apologize if I end up angering some of you who would prefer I rally something else, I guess I'm just hoping that whoever has direct useful knowledge to impart about this sport in general or about the car I chose would still be supportive. If it's too much to ask, then I understand.

I'm in Canada for a wedding, I'll start test drives on Monday when I get back and I'll hopefully have picked up something by the end of the week. Thanks guys.

 

[MConte05]

So my baseline normal is an '86 944. I think I'd be sufficiently excited to start off in something that would do 110-140 hp. I took the 944 to a rally cross a while ago against my best judgment and had a blast.

Sooo I asked for suggestions, and I did get some, aannndd I'm going with the CRX, b/c there are many more to choose from around my area than there are 240s, beemers or nissan 240sxes (yes I did look, yes the styling is nice ) and the price point is good for me. I don't really know how a wheelbase changes things (I think longer is better on straights, and shorter is quicker for turns, although some would argue 'in the right hands etc etc etc'), or what a "4.44 final drive" is, so I'm just gonna take everyone's word for whatever on that, I guess.

I asked for advice, and in a way I did get it, but it was interspersed amongst a lot of other stuff. If I may offer some feedback, I haven't met any of you, but if and when I do ... honestly I just hope there's less minutiae and less bickering. I'm sure everything you guys are saying is important in some way, but I barely understand most of it. I mean, I thought you guys were all friends in some way, that may have been an inappropriate assumption based mostly on being part of the internet generation and expecting a certain mutual respect among those with experience on a forum. I gotta say, there doesn't seem to be as much camaraderie on here as I thought there previously was in this sport in general, although I am still reasonably optimistic since many insist it exists. One of you said a while ago that you were interested in getting people into rally and keeping them in rally, and the discussion on this thread isn't entirely congruent with that.

I apologize if I end up angering some of you who would prefer I rally something else, I guess I'm just hoping that whoever has direct useful knowledge to impart about this sport in general or about the car I chose would still be supportive. If it's too much to ask, then I understand.

I'm in Canada for a wedding, I'll start test drives on Monday when I get back and I'll hopefully have picked up something by the end of the week. Thanks guys.

Don't take it personally, it's just how things go around here between a select few individuals. Good luck with your car search, and hopefully we'll see you on stage soon!

 

[jfd986]

Okay guys, I'm running into problems trying to find one of these cars for sale.

Golf GTIs were rare on the eastern side on CL (not interested in driving 5 hours and towing something back), and the CRXs that are out here either have too many problems or too many modifications (Canada won't let me import a car if it's modified).

I was initially gonna buy a car, slowly accumulate the parts for it and then import it and put it together in a year. I still wanna do that (unless there's an overwhelming sentiment of "just wait a year" on here), but now it looks like I'll have to pick something a bit more generic. So now I have a new, refined question to ask you guys:

What's a pre-2000 (skips a LOT of import hassle), dime-a-dozen fwd car that's easy to find parts for and the parts are cheap and you can upgrade? I heard someone say Civic on here, anyone second that or have another suggestion ? I searched for subaru imprezas and found a bunch of hatchbacks, are these typically turned into rally cars?

Also, spitballing here ..... should I hold off on all of this and wait until I'm back in Canada to look for a car ? I called CARS and they said that, once the car is logbooked, it's good in all of Canada, and as long as I reference both regs when I build, the car should be good to go across the border as well.

 

[MConte05]

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/5070881520.html

But I'm not biased or anything.

 

[northcoast]

I run an Imp wagon for a rally car. Easy and cheap to build plus has loads of storage space if you want to drive your car to a rally.

The Legacy Matt posted a link to would be a good car as well. Motor would need a refresh including head gaskets but those 2.2's last forever if you take care of them.

 

[KTurner]

What's a pre-2000 (skips a LOT of import hassle), dime-a-dozen fwd car that's easy to find parts for and the parts are cheap and you can upgrade? I heard someone say Civic on here, anyone second that or have another suggestion ? I searched for subaru imprezas and found a bunch of hatchbacks, are these typically turned into rally cars?
.

neon, maybe a focus, not a gti golf