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Ok,

Say your at an event like say... Tall Pines.

And there is a little snow on the road, or it is currently snowing (and sticking)

At which point should you switch to snow tires?

Say the road looks like this:

http://www.tallpinesrally.com/TallP...tions/20051115/RouteConditions_20051115_3.JPG

It seems to be, if there is gravel peeking through, I would want gravels. Or even if there is snow cover on everything, but little ice. Becuase it is going to get torn up by the 37 cars ahead of me (37!).

Also, taking big jumps on snows freaks me out. And the roads have rocks, and gravel still, and gravely rocky ditches that eat tires.

Whats the story?
 

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Faster Mabricator
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> Becuase it is going to get torn up by the 37
>cars ahead of me (37!).

You are 32nd on road. There are car# skipped intentionally by organizers at Tall Pines.
 

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There is still time for the weather to change... a few times.

Hold your horses.

My guess is have your snows ready.
 

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I am wondering this as well though. I know the weather will change but its good to have a discussion like this anyway. Come on tire experts, lets hear some opinions!
 

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NOT a tire expert.

A couple of years ago, we turned up at the event - there was no snow in town.

There was no snow on the gravel road outside of town leading to my Aunt's place.

There was a bit of frost set in the road.

Air temp in the morning was around the freeezing mark.

We lined up in Parc Expose as one of two cars with gravels on.

No cell service to my crew, parked over in L'Amable at the service park.

Sinking feeling.

We got through the first stage (close to town - frozen sand with the occasional patch of ice ) - posting a pretty good time compared to our competition on snows and ice tires.

Stage 2 was a disaster - two sunken ice ruts worn into a snowy unplowed stage road. Sphincter stage. 20 km in, slid slowly off the road into a swamp on an easy uphill left simply from slipping out of the ruts.

There's a million stories in the naked woods.

Robin
 

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1973 WRC POR
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>I am wondering this as well though. I know the weather will
>change but its good to have a discussion like this anyway.
>Come on tire experts, lets hear some opinions!

John/Matt:

If the conditions become interesting, have someone from your service crew wander over to see what the top cars are using when they leave for each batch of stages. John, you should look at L'Estage, ACP and Perusse. Matt, you should look at Nichols and Sprongl.

Also, talk to these guys before the rally and ask for their opinions on what tires to use when.

ACP's article in the spectator guide (which is available on the Tall Pines website) is also interesting, but geared more towards the casual spectator.

Doug Woods
 

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straight at T
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Some guidelines:

The Hastings stages and the spectator (Iron Bridge and variations) stages are town roads, and tend to have less snow cover. The Egan Creek stages and Eel's Lake (Castledine's) stages are more of a forest road, and tend to have more snow and tree cover.

If it has snowed (even just a little) and the temperature is around freezing, there will be snow/ice patches on the forest roads - you will be faster on snows. If it is sunny, the town roads will tend to become gravel stages much quicker than the forest roads. The temperature in the shady areas of the woods will be a bit lower than what you feel at parc expose, and the shade will help the snow remain cold enough to stay.

We ran in 2002 on narrow gravels (on a Talon) and got comprehensively beaten on the forest stuff because there was a fair bit of snow under the trees. The spectator stage was a blast, though, becaus it had reverted to gravel before we got there (sun on most of the road). We switched to snows for the remainder of the event, but got a flat on the first stage after changing them.

You take a guess. If it is below freezing, the cars ahead of you will tend to make snow into ice, if it is above freezing (in the shade in the woods), the cars ahead of you will tend to turn the snow into sloppy gravel.

Adrian
 

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50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
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As smarter folk than I told me:
Compound is the #1 concern.
No gravel tire is designed for near/below freezing temps.

If it's THAT cold out (as in your photo Matt) Go w/Snows and drive smart (knowing you can hurt a snow tire much easier than a gravel tire)
 

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Last year i ran all rally on Snows.

Cheapass Uniroyal "ice and snows" to be exact.

everyone laughed at us, but we were fairly competitive in our first even rally.

It is really all about compound. once you get close to freezing, gravels will just glaze over, and you'll start breaking off the blocks.

We also ran tubes...which i think helped..but who knows
 

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straight at T
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>Last year i ran all rally on Snows.
>
>Cheapass Uniroyal "ice and snows" to be exact.
>
>everyone laughed at us, but we were fairly competitive in our
>first even rally.
>
>It is really all about compound. once you get close to
>freezing, gravels will just glaze over, and you'll start
>breaking off the blocks.
>
>We also ran tubes...which i think helped..but who knows

If it is just below freezing, but the roads are clear of snow, you will get grip with gravels - they will get up to a useful working temperature quite quickly. Just remember that the grip will be limited to non-existant on the white bits...

Adrian
 

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>Last year i ran all rally on Snows.
>
>Cheapass Uniroyal "ice and snows" to be exact.
>
>everyone laughed at us, but we were fairly competitive in our
>first even rally.
>
>It is really all about compound. once you get close to
>freezing, gravels will just glaze over, and you'll start
>breaking off the blocks.
>
>We also ran tubes...which i think helped..but who knows


You guys did great last year!
I Hope you are running this year?

As far as tires go...

I've hear ACP on more than one occasion call a ice/snow light truck tire his "secret weapon". Make a lot of sense for mixed conditions. Teh compound will be right for the temps. Good grip for ice/snow, reasonable open block tread design should clear slush/mud, much stiffer sidewalls than passanger car tires. Difficult to get smaller sizes though... Sounds like a good tire to bring to pines if you have them or can get your hands on some.

Tubes in snow tires... makes sense to me, and can't do any harm.

-Martin.
 

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we'll most assuredly be at Pines this year.

You making your debut??

This year however. were gonna have like 4 sets of tires in the cube van this year :D
 

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>we'll most assuredly be at Pines this year.
>
>You making your debut??

Yes, sort of... We're servicing two teams. The Group 5 Nissan is only half done, it was delayed due to an addition to the family and a subsequent change of priorities :)

>This year however. were gonna have like 4 sets of tires in the
>cube van this year :D

Apparently there will be around 50 tires in our service area :D
 

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Very hard to know right now, guys. I do think it's going to be a tough year for tire choice, and I'm in the garage mounting right now, fully expecting to be remounting other tires next week.


ACP
 
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