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Gancho!!!!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so with the new rules or to be rules being thrown around.....if i was to buy a car to start prepping should i venture into a 4wd pgt car or even gp5 or just stick to gp2 and p just to be safe.

i am a newb to driving rally stages, but have sat many rallies in the right seat and rally x gallore not to mention the once a month ventures to country roads of NC....its sad when you got to drive 1.5 hours for a 2 mile dirt road.

Lou
 

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Well it seems safe to build a G2 or P car and the common wisdon for newer drivers seems to be to start with a slower car anyway, those are not a bad choice. However if your heart is set on a car that would only fit in G5 or PGT, you could opt for near stock power and hope the elders will let you play.

Since everything circulating around RA and new rules are just proposals I wouldnt make any decisions involving money based on them until they are published. If you need to start your car now to have one for next season, just build what you want following the2004 rules for SCCA and NASA and if RA comes up with some training wheels and a scarlet N on the forehead thing that would keep you out, just run NASA events.
 

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>G2 cars can be fast, fun, agile, and make you a better driver.
>
>So I've heard.

Similarly, ask Jeff Field what can be done with a lowly "P" car...

It will definitely make you better driver.

- hoffer
 

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CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
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Production or Group 2....

Whiplash RallyeSport
 

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>>G2 cars can be fast, fun, agile, and make you a better driver.
>>
>>So I've heard.
>
>Similarly, ask Jeff Field what can be done with a lowly "P"
>car...
>
>It will definitely make you better driver.
>
>- hoffer

Ask Lauchlin O'Sullivan what a year in a very low powered G2 car did for him!

Jeff Burmeister
SpecialStage.com
The North American Rally Resource
http://www.SpecialStage.com
 

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5 right opens
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Besides... it's not like you have a choice.

According to the new SCCA Rules, which looks to be totally adopted by Rally America, you HAVE to run a G2 or P car as a Rookie.

Unless you have significant enough experienced to get the personal nod past the "rookie" status, that is.

So regardless of what anyone says about safesty, fun or competitiveness (is that a word?), you HAVE to run a G2 or P car.

That's just the way it is.

Good luck and HAVE FUN!!! I know I will.

Best,

Scott - PGT dreams on hold too - Kovalik
 

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I just completed my first year in Performance Rally. I've been a roadracer (hold a national roadracing licence and instruct roadracing)for a number of years and continue to roadrace and enjoy performance rally.

Here's my thoughts...
1) Horsepower gets you going down a straight faster
2) An underpowered car will corner nearly as fast as a high horsepower car.
3) An underpowered car will stop / slow down as fast as a high horsepower car.

BTW, the car I built was a 1988 VW-A2-Golf 1.8L, 8V, bone stock with Bilsteins. Makes 85 hp at the wheels; I checked it on a dyno.

Then, I've analyzed my stage times compared to others.
1) Windy, twisty roads, lots of downhill... My stage times are closer.
2) Open, straight, lots of uphills... My stage times are further away.
Thus I conclude that learning to drive corners fast is the key to quick stage times. Horsepower will get you going up hills and on the straighaways. But, hey, if it's a straight road, my mother can mash the gas pedal... (she's a grandmother, BTW).

Our net result for the year... 2nd in P in NASA. Behing Jeff Field who had an awesome year! We ran only 4 of 6 NASA events. Finished every one. Had a blast. Met a lot of new friends.

My recommendation. Build or buy a "slow" P car. Learn to maintain speed through a corner; build/develop those skills. Then, if you're honest with yourself, when you're ready, build a quicker car. BTW, it'll be a lot cheaper on your pocketbook.

Tim Meyer..........................ToeJaM Racing
 

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400 flat to crest
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>I just completed my first year in Performance Rally.

>Here's my thoughts...

And here's some comments on your thoughts

>1) Horsepower gets you going down a straight faster

Not really.
torque, and that can be from a strong motor, or from a wimpey-ass motor geared shorter icreases the RATE of acceleration up to speed.
My first year POS Saab 20 years ago had maybe 95 bhp, but it had a
5.83:1 final drive.


>2) An underpowered car will corner nearly as fast as a high
>horsepower car.

It may never reach any sort of 'speed' worth much braking.

>3) An underpowered car will stop / slow down as fast as a
>high horsepower car.

Most guys in the sport who want faster motors eventually start thinking about better brakes, they have to.
>

>
>
>Thus I conclude that learning to drive corners fast is the
>key to quick stage times.

I suggest that you have reached the same conclusion that many people have arrived at equally incorrectly.

But, hey, if it's a straight
>road, my mother can mash the gas pedal... (she's a
>grandmother, BTW).

If she was driving the average heavy, underpowered, EPA beating high geared P or "Grope2" car then the results of her mashing the gas pedal would be non-dramatic enough for her to handle.

Learn to
>maintain speed through a corner;
The same advice that most people continually year in and year out repeat, and when people in their heavy, underpowered, stock geared cars which are so slow as to be frustrating (UNLESS! Maybe you've never driving anything modified or with a real proper gearbox)learn that to lift is to die, they learn to never lift.
Then they throw the car in the bushes.

Have a look at these figures of a standard road car, a Volvo Original Cup car (only OEM production parts but that might include a 4.1 axle ratio) and a National class 240.
Three cars with the same chassi, two with the same suspension, one with more BHP, torque and gearing.
By your logic, learning to drive corners is the key to fast stage times, but can you really expect cornering to make a dent in these sort of differences?
[http://www.jvab.f4.ca/vassvolvo2.JPG]
[http://www.jvab.f4.ca/vassvolvo3.JPG]

I suggest that the biggest lesson to be learned is to build a correct car, a complete package even if it is maybe a bit older.
A RALLY car is the key to faster stage times, not a stock car driven out of its element.



build/develop those skills.
> Then, if you're honest with yourself, when you're ready,
>build a quicker car. BTW, it'll be a lot cheaper on your
>pocketbook.

Unless a person has never driven a car, it is a fallacy that "learnig to drive" in a slow car is inhereantly one thing or the next.
What novices must EVENTUALLY do is to learn restraint, and until that happens, they are still a risk.
Learning restraint is easier when a person doesn't have the feeling that lifting the throttle is an unforgiveable sin.
That's far easier when the car might actually get back up to speed in the same stage, this week, once you lifted.
>
>Tim Meyer..........................ToeJaM Racing





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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You could get a pgt RS. The car has little power-- which will make you learn clean lines and how to carry alot of speed threw corners. I had alot of luck withy my RS my rookie year. I used stock diffs/brakes/bushings ect. It never had a mechanical dnf and pushed hard it can achieve really good stage times "8th overal on a stage at rim". Low horsepower and seat time will help you become a better driver. Try and get a experienced co driver to help you out the first couple of rally's. I learned alot from their "right seat remarks"


btw its for sale if your interested
 

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400 flat to crest
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>WOW... I just learned that I'm really a "rally idiot"
>
>Tim Meyer...............................ToeJaM Racing

Well it did seem that you suggested that the biggest gains were to be found in trying to corner at higher speeds, that does seem to be a common misconception, and it seems that the result is guys in the bushes.

And the term rally idiot covers all of us.
I often ask " Just what KIND OF fool tdo you think we are?".

Try gearing, it's really fun, too.
But don't pout or we'll think you're still a road racer.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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>WOW... I just learned that I'm really a "rally idiot"
>
>Tim Meyer...............................ToeJaM Racing


he does that a lot to people.
 

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Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
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RE: make up your mind JV

On one post you say most/all US competitors are stopping for the corners and squirting down the straights - "boring".
Then the next post say that that's the right way to do it, as long as its in a Volvo with 10:1 gears.
Geeez.
rz
 

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Just ignore him.....he's been worse than ever since the morning sickness set in....

Glad you guys came out an played. Nice car: good and simple to get started.

Regards,
Mark B.
 

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Hi Luis,

You live here on the east coast, right? I am not aware that NASA is going to implement any restrictions on new drivers....although I am not up to date right now with every annoucement, so I could be off base ther. Why not go ESRC with whatever car you have? How about the Sentra that your dad was running?

Regards,
Mark B.
 

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Gancho!!!!
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
hey mark

yeah i am in the east coast virginia beach to be exact, and as far as the yellow sentra my dad decided to take me swimming on the little water stream running on the bottom of the ditch on the last stage of rally of new york a year ago. and sentra don't swim very well, but a ser is what i am looking for if anybody knows of any....


Lou
 
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