What should be the purpose of regional championships?
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Ummm... to be honest, I have yet to see anyone I know actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in it.
IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought. I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for their efforts.
Which, I might add is really cheezing me off lately for the money we outlay.
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought. I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for their efforts.
Which, I might add is really cheezing me off lately for the money we outlay.
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
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And while I am publically ranting, I might as well throw in that I think its really crappy cherry picking the Regional events via Dual Entry by a few of the National guys.
If you dual enter for insurance & run Nats & win or place, be stand up individuals & withdraw from the Regionals so others can share in the victory speeches & dances.
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
If you dual enter for insurance & run Nats & win or place, be stand up individuals & withdraw from the Regionals so others can share in the victory speeches & dances.
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
Joined
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1,367 Posts
>Ummm... to be honest, I have yet to see anyone I know
>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>it.
>
>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run
>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought.
>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for
>their efforts.
>
>Which, I might add is really cheezing me off lately for the
>money we outlay.
>
>JC
>#595
>www.gnimotorsports.com
JC--
Get out of that same-same Midwest/ RA rut and check out some NASA events. The Eastern States Rally Championship ran all season with rallies from TN to NY, on gravel and tarmac, w/great variety of roads, seasons, and experience. Different class structure from RA, like a naturally aspirated Open class--the unofficial Spec Sube class so often mentioned on this site. Nice engraved plates for season winners, too. NASA has a Western States and California reginnal series as well.
If that doesn't work for ya, try the Ontario Performance Rally Championship, it's closer to Middle Westerners.....also with good coverage, fine variety of events and nice plaques to take the sting out of spending yourself silly.
Build yerself a nice simple NA Impreza and go have a blast in Canada...
Dave G
www.lastditchracing.net
"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>it.
>
>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run
>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought.
>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for
>their efforts.
>
>Which, I might add is really cheezing me off lately for the
>money we outlay.
>
>JC
>#595
>www.gnimotorsports.com
JC--
Get out of that same-same Midwest/ RA rut and check out some NASA events. The Eastern States Rally Championship ran all season with rallies from TN to NY, on gravel and tarmac, w/great variety of roads, seasons, and experience. Different class structure from RA, like a naturally aspirated Open class--the unofficial Spec Sube class so often mentioned on this site. Nice engraved plates for season winners, too. NASA has a Western States and California reginnal series as well.
If that doesn't work for ya, try the Ontario Performance Rally Championship, it's closer to Middle Westerners.....also with good coverage, fine variety of events and nice plaques to take the sting out of spending yourself silly.
Build yerself a nice simple NA Impreza and go have a blast in Canada...
Dave G
www.lastditchracing.net
"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
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Isn't the RA regional championship option 2? Frankly, I think any distinction between 1 and 2 is pure bosh. It just depends on whether someone you deem "clubman" wins or not.
Now, I agree that the whoe dual-entry issue is problematic, but I fail to see how you address that in your poll.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
Now, I agree that the whoe dual-entry issue is problematic, but I fail to see how you address that in your poll.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
Joined
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1,278 Posts
I'm not sure it's really problematic per se, Christian. There's really only a few people I've witnessed doing it still. Perhaps they dont even realize that many others look down on them for it.
Maybe I was being too harsh. I just think the majority would like to see it segregated because it bites when you enter an event and have your best finish ever, only to be denied your moment by someone who is getting 3 more moments that nite, and many more that season...
I'd hate to see anyone have to make it a rule. It would seem to me that manners/courtesy can dictate here & and almost have (save the last few of course).
BTW- I got the package yesterday- THANX!
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
Maybe I was being too harsh. I just think the majority would like to see it segregated because it bites when you enter an event and have your best finish ever, only to be denied your moment by someone who is getting 3 more moments that nite, and many more that season...
I'd hate to see anyone have to make it a rule. It would seem to me that manners/courtesy can dictate here & and almost have (save the last few of course).
BTW- I got the package yesterday- THANX!
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
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1,838 Posts
Dual Entry's are bunk.
>Isn't the RA regional championship option 2? Frankly, I
>think any distinction between 1 and 2 is pure bosh. It just
>depends on whether someone you deem "clubman" wins or not.
You are correct, sorry for the poor wording, I've edited to remove option #1.
>
>Now, I agree that the whoe dual-entry issue is problematic,
>but I fail to see how you address that in your poll.
What I'm trying to survey is how many folks here feel regional championships should be somehow reserved for clubmen teams. Not everyone agrees regional championships should be reserved for clubmen, or even that dual entries are bad, I've heard good aguments on both sides of the issue.
All this being said, I'd guess SS is mostly Clubmen, so I expect the result of this poll to be biased, but I am interested to see if many poeple support the viewpoint that top teams should be included in regional championships.
Jim Cox
#558
>
>- Christian
>
>Bjorn Christian Edstrom
>www.christianedstrom.com
>think any distinction between 1 and 2 is pure bosh. It just
>depends on whether someone you deem "clubman" wins or not.
You are correct, sorry for the poor wording, I've edited to remove option #1.
>
>Now, I agree that the whoe dual-entry issue is problematic,
>but I fail to see how you address that in your poll.
What I'm trying to survey is how many folks here feel regional championships should be somehow reserved for clubmen teams. Not everyone agrees regional championships should be reserved for clubmen, or even that dual entries are bad, I've heard good aguments on both sides of the issue.
All this being said, I'd guess SS is mostly Clubmen, so I expect the result of this poll to be biased, but I am interested to see if many poeple support the viewpoint that top teams should be included in regional championships.
Jim Cox
#558
>
>- Christian
>
>Bjorn Christian Edstrom
>www.christianedstrom.com
Joined
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2,144 Posts
>What I'm trying to survey is how many folks here feel regional
>championships should be somehow reserved for clubmen teams.
>Not everyone agrees regional championships should be reserved
>for clubmen, or even that dual entries are bad, I've heard
>good aguments on both sides of the issue.
You won't hear any complaints about this from the national teams. The fundamental problem is that dual-entering lets organizers get more revenue from competitors who dual enter, while providing the same service (ie, providing the stage miles).
Perhaps a better way to do it is to disallow dual entry, but allow a Superrally run for National competitors on the second day of racing, for an additional fee.
To ask a guy who has dual entered to withdraw to give the class win to someone else seems unfair. Asking people to choose to compete only in the national or regional seems reasonable.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
>championships should be somehow reserved for clubmen teams.
>Not everyone agrees regional championships should be reserved
>for clubmen, or even that dual entries are bad, I've heard
>good aguments on both sides of the issue.
You won't hear any complaints about this from the national teams. The fundamental problem is that dual-entering lets organizers get more revenue from competitors who dual enter, while providing the same service (ie, providing the stage miles).
Perhaps a better way to do it is to disallow dual entry, but allow a Superrally run for National competitors on the second day of racing, for an additional fee.
To ask a guy who has dual entered to withdraw to give the class win to someone else seems unfair. Asking people to choose to compete only in the national or regional seems reasonable.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
>Asking people to choose to compete only
>in the national or regional seems reasonable.
Maybe... uhmmm... until.... some (expletive restrained) ying-yang decides the regional entries aren't desirable for the TV snots and opt to only have national entries. Sure, maybe that ain't happenin' right now, but... been there, done that... very recently.
Those who fail remember history are doomed to repeat it.
>in the national or regional seems reasonable.
Maybe... uhmmm... until.... some (expletive restrained) ying-yang decides the regional entries aren't desirable for the TV snots and opt to only have national entries. Sure, maybe that ain't happenin' right now, but... been there, done that... very recently.
Those who fail remember history are doomed to repeat it.
Joined
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2,472 Posts
>Asking people to
>choose to compete only in the national or regional seems
>reasonable.
So you should only be able to register for one RA championship in a calendar year?
Adrian
>choose to compete only in the national or regional seems
>reasonable.
So you should only be able to register for one RA championship in a calendar year?
Adrian
Joined
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159 Posts
>Ummm... to be honest, I have yet to see anyone I know
>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>it.
>
>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run
>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought.
>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for
>their efforts.
I have a beautifully engraved silver platter that says "Club Rally National Champion" sitting on my self right now.
I belive that this is a valuble series for teams to run if they can't afford to do the national series.
Steve
>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>it.
>
>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run
>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought.
>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for
>their efforts.
I have a beautifully engraved silver platter that says "Club Rally National Champion" sitting on my self right now.
I belive that this is a valuble series for teams to run if they can't afford to do the national series.
Steve
>Ummm... to be honest, I have yet to see anyone I know
>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>it.
>
>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run
>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought.
>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for
>their efforts.
>
Um...the Rally America Regional Championships for 2005 are still going on, with at least one event in each Region yet to run. Under the previous regime, Divisional Champions collected hardware for winning...although in CenDiv, the "hardware" were some nice embroidered shirts. Ask Jim to show you his - he has several.
The Rally in the 100 Acre Wood 2006 will be the 2005 Rally America National Championship for Regional competitors.
Bruce
>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>it.
>
>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to run
>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I thought.
>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show for
>their efforts.
>
Um...the Rally America Regional Championships for 2005 are still going on, with at least one event in each Region yet to run. Under the previous regime, Divisional Champions collected hardware for winning...although in CenDiv, the "hardware" were some nice embroidered shirts. Ask Jim to show you his - he has several.
The Rally in the 100 Acre Wood 2006 will be the 2005 Rally America National Championship for Regional competitors.
Bruce
Joined
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1,367 Posts
sitting pretty?
> >
>
>I have a beautifully engraved silver platter that says "Club
>Rally National Champion" sitting on my self right now.
>
>
>
>Steve
Umm, "platter.. sitting on my SELF right now..." ????
Isn't a silver platter kinda c-c-c-old to be wearing in Elk River MN this time o year?
Dave G
"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
> >
>
>I have a beautifully engraved silver platter that says "Club
>Rally National Champion" sitting on my self right now.
>
>
>
>Steve
Umm, "platter.. sitting on my SELF right now..." ????
Isn't a silver platter kinda c-c-c-old to be wearing in Elk River MN this time o year?
Dave G
"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
>>Ummm... to be honest, I have yet to see anyone I know
>>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>>it.
>>
>>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to
>run
>>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I
>thought.
>>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show
>for
>>their efforts.
>>
>Under the previous regime, Divisional Champions
>collected hardware for winning...although in CenDiv, the
>"hardware" were some nice embroidered shirts. Ask Jim to show
>you his - he has several.
I have a couple of third-place in class trophies from NEDiv championships, not that they mean a whole lot... but it does indicate that hardware was given out - SCCA collected funds from all regional competitiors that theoretically went to pay for trophies (although I believe it became the tow fund for the CRNC in the last few years).
Adrian
>>actually get any type of trophy or anything for winning a
>>regional championship. Therefore I have shown no interest in
>>it.
>>
>>IF someone could show me evidence of such, I would like to
>run
>>for a Regional chamionship next year with a National "Club
>>level" Chamionship at 100AW. That was a cool system I
>thought.
>>I jsut never saw any hardware on anyone's shelves to show
>for
>>their efforts.
>>
>Under the previous regime, Divisional Champions
>collected hardware for winning...although in CenDiv, the
>"hardware" were some nice embroidered shirts. Ask Jim to show
>you his - he has several.
I have a couple of third-place in class trophies from NEDiv championships, not that they mean a whole lot... but it does indicate that hardware was given out - SCCA collected funds from all regional competitiors that theoretically went to pay for trophies (although I believe it became the tow fund for the CRNC in the last few years).
Adrian
Joined
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689 Posts
RE: sitting pretty?
First dual entries are not bunk: Local guy wants to see how he fairs at National level but should not have to give up Regional points chase. Yes I know some folks have used it to buy a better spot on the road. Next from my motorcycle days I loved when the Pro Teams showed up it lets you know how you stack up. Organizers are not gitting rich and every bit of revenue helps.
As for the purpose of Regional championships they should be for Club level guys but if Stig wants to run in P-stock at CRS why should he be excluded??? Maybe some day when local Rally gets 100 cars at every event we can start asking National guys to stay out of club but in the mean time leave it alone. Finally I'm just an organizer for Rally but as a road race competitor I do not want a National or Pro guy to step aside, I want to beat them even more than the club guys. My proudest and most memorable moments are running with Pro/Club guys.
Tom
First dual entries are not bunk: Local guy wants to see how he fairs at National level but should not have to give up Regional points chase. Yes I know some folks have used it to buy a better spot on the road. Next from my motorcycle days I loved when the Pro Teams showed up it lets you know how you stack up. Organizers are not gitting rich and every bit of revenue helps.
As for the purpose of Regional championships they should be for Club level guys but if Stig wants to run in P-stock at CRS why should he be excluded??? Maybe some day when local Rally gets 100 cars at every event we can start asking National guys to stay out of club but in the mean time leave it alone. Finally I'm just an organizer for Rally but as a road race competitor I do not want a National or Pro guy to step aside, I want to beat them even more than the club guys. My proudest and most memorable moments are running with Pro/Club guys.
Tom
Joined
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1,278 Posts
thank you for the verifications. Embroidered shirts though? I would like to see something better.
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
Joined
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6,058 Posts
RE: sitting pretty?
He's wouldn't be excluded. He'd be wasting his time and would be selff gratifying himself. Now, the only argument for a dual entry is someone who is truly a regional guy who wants to get the national contingency in a Subaru. The other way around it is self gratification and inflation of resume, nothing else. I could give examples, but don't want to offend anyone.
He's wouldn't be excluded. He'd be wasting his time and would be selff gratifying himself. Now, the only argument for a dual entry is someone who is truly a regional guy who wants to get the national contingency in a Subaru. The other way around it is self gratification and inflation of resume, nothing else. I could give examples, but don't want to offend anyone.
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