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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All the recent discussion of what is or is not wrong with ClubRally got me to wondering what would make the perfect ClubRally event. I realize that everybody's idea of 'perfect' will be different but I'm sure there will be some common ground too. I just thought this would be interesting but maybe it will help the ClubRally organizers to know what you'd like to see more (or less) of.

John B.


PS - Here are some questions I came up with to get you started:

Do you prefer a single Coefficient 3 or several Coefficient 1's/2's?

How many special stage miles do you prefer?
What length of special stages do you prefer?
How many special stages do you prefer?
How many transit miles is too many?
How many times should a stage be re-used?

What time do you like to start at?
What time do you like to finish by?
Do you like to run night stages?

What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?
Do you mind paying more for good trophys/prizes?
Do you mind paying more for a tow fund?
Do you mind paying more for an after-rally dinner/party?

What kind of competitor information should be provided?

Do you have any preferences about the park expose?
Do you have any preferences about the service area?

What kind of worker training/information should be provided?
What kind of worker perks/compensation do you prefer?

What kind of spectator areas do you like to have?
What kind of spectator information should be provided?

What kind of media coverage/exposure would you like to see?
 

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1) Long and challenging, somewhat comparable to a National. So this means coeff 3. This is preferred to 2 coeff 2's; it places a premium on having a car that is durable, and on good prep work and steady driving. Fewer, longer stages are preferred but I will take what I can get if it is long overall.

2) Plenty of night stages. I like night stages, and this is much preferred to keep the event within one day, rather than a spread over 2 days. And no whining from the front runners if the event drags out due to stoppages; let's keep racing. Competition is better than beer.

3) One service are is nice but not if it will compromise stage mileage.

4) A casual banquet at the Moose or Elks afterward is great (like at 100 AW this year).

5) Parc expose is nice for the locals. I am a hobby guy so don't give a hoot about media.

Mark Bowers
 

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I think I'd like to see more C3's...more like the "big boys" run.

> How many special stage miles do you prefer?
Not sure...seeing as HW is my first event. Probably 70-100.
> What length of special stages do you prefer?
Again..not sure. 10-15 miles sounds like a good number. :)
>How many times should a stage be re-used?
I think twice a rally would be fine. Or you could run it 3 times...two forward and once reverse. :)

> What time do you like to start at?
On a friday evening. Say 7-11 pm. Then saturday 3pm-10pm
> Do you like to run night stages?
Not sure...they are fun on TSD's...I think they'll be cool.

> What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?
Less than a national. $250 for one day. $350-500 for two days.
> Do you mind paying more for good trophys/prizes?
I dunno...I'm more in it just to have fun. Don't really care about all that.
> Do you mind paying more for a tow fund?
I still don't get how this works. But the extra $5 for HW was fine with me.
> Do you mind paying more for an after-rally dinner/party?
It would be cool to have the option. Like if you want to you can otherwise you can head straight to the party at the bar. hehe.
> What kind of competitor information should be provided?
Not sure what you mean here. Bio's of the teams would be cool. But the teams should have to supply their own bio sheet.

> Do you have any preferences about the park expose?
I think this is essential. I love seeing the cars. I know the locals probably think it's pretty cool too.

>What kind of spectator information should be provided?
How to get to a spectator area. Safety info.

>What kind of media coverage/exposure would you like to see?
Like I said above I think the parc expose is cool. It would be nice to have a chance to talk with some of the spectators and what not. I know a lot of the young (under-16) fans I have talked to look up to all you older drivers and co-drivers. Doesn't matter if you're Pro or Club. If you've got a race car...you are going to be like Michael Jordan to some 10 year old. :) For me...I'd love the chance to talk to kids about the sport. I wish some one had been around to tell me about rallying when I was younger.

Hope this helps.

~Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess for the competitor information, I was wondering if it would be useful to have a sheet that showed the out-of town people where they could find local services - auto parts stores, car dealers (factory parts), wal-mart, the local mall, restraunts and perhaps a bar or two ;-).

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what information the competitors recieve other than the route book and probably an event schedule.

John B.
 

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> Do you prefer a single Coefficient 3 or several Coefficient 1's/2's?

If there are long services, split it up so DNFs can get another chance.

> What length of special stages do you prefer?

Not less than 4 miles. 6-12 is perfect.

> How many transit miles is too many?

More than 2x the stage miles.

> How many times should a stage be re-used?

Not more than twice.

> What time do you like to start at?

10AM. None of this 7AM crap.

> Do you like to run night stages?

Yes.

> What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?

$8/stage mile

> Do you mind paying more for good trophys/prizes?
> Do you mind paying more for a tow fund?

Trophies are cool. Getting $50 back when the weekend cost $2000 is pointless.

> Do you mind paying more for an after-rally dinner/party?

After rally party is VERY important.

> Do you have any preferences about the park expose?

Food available. Bathrooms available.

> Do you have any preferences about the service area?

Dry. Plenty of room. Close to spectator areas, so the crew can spectate. Bathrooms available.

> What kind of worker training/information should be provided?

Teach them how to run a friggin ATC! Daphne ends up having to show them how to fill in the card half the time.

> What kind of spectator areas do you like to have?

EZ in, EZ out, lots of parking close to the rally route. Spectators should be able to freely move between spectator areas.

> What kind of media coverage/exposure would you like to see?

NONE! Haven't they done enough damage already?
 

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>All the recent discussion of what is or is not wrong with
>ClubRally got me to wondering what would make the perfect
>ClubRally event. I realize that everybody's idea of
>'perfect' will be different but I'm sure there will be some
>common ground too. I just thought this would be interesting
>but maybe it will help the ClubRally organizers to know what
>you'd like to see more (or less) of.
>
>John B.
>
>
>PS - Here are some questions I came up with to get you
>started:
>
>Do you prefer a single Coefficient 3 or several Coefficient
>1's/2's?

******_2_ Coeff 3 events, this is rally not sprint
>
>How many special stage miles do you prefer?

*****Minimum 100 miles, prefer minimum 130~+
I mean come on thats barely two hours of stage time in a 24 hour period, that ain't bad, and I don't care if the current modern US "PRO" events are at that milage, it has nothing to do with "club"


>What length of special stages do you prefer?

********Sprinty 10 miles to challenging 20+ miles
>How many special stages do you prefer?

****** 10-12
>How many transit miles is too many?

****** no set figure, it's the ratio: Bad is 45km for a 2.2km SS, ratio of maybe 2:1
>How many times should a stage be re-used?
>
****** Absolutely max 2 times on a same day, more and drivers get cocky, I am usually a full gear higher the third time thru.
>What time do you like to start at?

*****2 PM
>What time do you like to finish by?

******11 PM -8 AM
>Do you like to run night stages?

******Yes, no problem, this is rally, not limp wristed cone squishing, road racing weenie foo-foo.
>
>What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?

******* $100-$125 for the 130mile event per day
>Do you mind paying more for good trophys/prizes?

******Nice little plaques are better than Guady ostentatious trophies. A bit more OK
>Do you mind paying more for a tow fund?

*******Yes, Organiser can encourage long tows by DISCOUNTING entry and look at additional entries as "promotional donations"

>Do you mind paying more for an after-rally dinner/party?

********NO, the OAKVILLE GRANGE IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS RIGHT ABOUT US AND NW RALLY! IT IS THE BENCHMARK THAT OTHER RALLIES SHOULD STRIVE FOR. LONG LIVE OAKVILLE GRANGE AND CREW!
>
>What kind of competitor information should be provided?

*****Gas, parts, wrecking yards, friendly tow trucks, know radar traps, girlie bars, oooops!
>
>Do you have any preferences about the park expose?

***** Yes, keep it a Parc EXPOSÈ, not FERMÈ
>Do you have any preferences about the service area?

*****Yes, keep it above sea level
>
>What kind of worker training/information should be provided?

*****They should be competent, and they should be told to be careful and not to be dogmatic, listen to the competitors
>What kind of worker perks/compensation do you prefer?

****** Remember that girlie bar?, oh well FOOD AND BEER LATER

>
>What kind of spectator areas do you like to have?

******SAFE ONES ON BANKS, AND CUTTINGS
>What kind of spectator information should be provided?

*******AS much as possible, maps programme, bios, free space to event sponsors, local contact for CLUB membership, contact for local cell of CCCP.
>
>What kind of media coverage/exposure would you like to see?
LOTS AND LOTS as long it is we competitors who control the media and not huckster/promo people that hype it to extreme. Keep the emphasis on local color, and the ACCESSABILITY and the Do-ability of the sport

And I would like to see all the budget published at the OFFICIAL NOTICE BOARD, so we have an idea where the money all goes to.Everything :sanction , insurance, hotel, travel, printing with names of printers, gas, everything.

This would be so people understand the costs and also to stimulate
possible suggestions on savings.

And fially PLEASE print the results posted in columns like by car number decending :

SS1***8.5mile SS2***9.4 mi SS3***12.75mi
car 24...9.30 #42...10.45 #24...14.15
#42...9.34 #66...10.50 #53...14.20
#66...9.42 #27...10.55 #42...14.22


this was painstakingly typed as clear columns not the garbled mess shown when posted, filthy computers!

This presents a picture of WHAT HAPPENED on the STAGE, a report rather than the way one must search up and down to see who was best or whatever on the columns most common today.
This should be a snap for those computer geeks since it's all numbers and sorting.

And if the event is run concurrently with a so called 'PRO' event add a little notation by the car number to indicate if car is CLUB or 'Pro' but publish the stage results as one stage one event, top to bottom. Oh yeah post the winning car average MPH per stage.










John Vanlandingham
 

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I'll show you mine if you show me yours......

not to be a prick, but if you want to see my numbers on the budget, then you need to be on the organizing committee. I am not about to have 40 TEAMS (150+ people) and 100+ volunteer workers and 1000+ spectators tell me that I am spending too much money on this or that. Organizers are already told how we can do just about every aspect of an event better, but I am not going to open that can of worms. If a competitor has a legitimate need to see my budget, come and ask me, we'll sit down over a beer and discuss what it is you want to know... but I am not going to drop trou at the parc expose for all to critique... :)

all other suggestions are cool... $300.00 for a 2 dayer 100+ miler is certainly doable in the SW... And i dig night stages too, hard to get a full volunteer base that is willing to be out all night though...
 

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RE: I'll show you mine if you show me yours......

The reason I suggest that bill is I have seen way too much BS under the heading "OI! The sanction fees just went up!!" and "OI! (slapping forehead and doing bad imitation of my Uncle Reuben's NE jewish accent) the insurance fees are KILLING me!"

Not aiming at any organiser, but rather to the entire system, I see BS such as saying "it cost this much and that's what the going rate is for SCCA roadraces...." Well, bugger all the SCCA roadracers, not one person I know and talk with gives a rat's ass about SCCA roadracers, but we've all heard it as justification before.

And further, I have yet to encounter anybody who pays there own bills to say thay they give a sheeeeut about the stickers on the door, if you post the graft that you pay to SCCA to be 'sanctioned' by them, that might help people decide if those four letters are worth it or if maybe something like ARSG or maybe WARSG (W for Weastern) might be a better deal. from what i have been told by numerous people who deal with SCCA central office, everything simply doubles what the cost should otherwise be. Everything.
Just a thought.

And the old days when what I described was the norm, the all night trade off of hard for keeping workers was balanced by the availabilty of road permits at night when the affect on road useage was minimal. Possible solution: Supply espresso sweep vehicle to run thru at 10 PM, 02 AM and 4 am.
And workers get Tshirts and free breakfast and where was that girlie bar?













John Vanlandingham
 

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RE: I'll show you mine if you show me yours......

ok, that I can understand... I'll gladly post a generalization of the budget. IE: X goes to SCCA for this and that, X went to banqueting, X went to admin costs, etc.

I just wanted to avoid the "my uncle is a printer and he can save you $.005 per book if you print them on the third Sunday of the month." or the "do you REALLY need to pay X for Y, I didn't really think Y was worth X"

Sweep vehicles sponsored by Starbucks sounds like a plan!!!

and my ENTIRE budget for PFR 2002 is less than the Sanction and Insurance alone would be if we were a Pro event.
 

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RE: I'll show you mine if you show me yours......

Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa.). Well said Bill! All good points and I agree with your figures. Will finish and answer other points when my hands stop going to the 10 to 2 position! Just got back from OT. Assisted Mr K's assistants to help him get 6th O/A and 1st Gp N. I'll be back for more!
 

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Thanks for Asking!

Thanks for Asking:

* Combined seeding of Pro and Club at combined events is best. (Oregon Trail)

* Prefer Coefficient 2 or 3. (No interest in Coeff.1 or Rallycross)

* Prefer 6 to 8 stages per day. Varied miles, 5 to 25. (No Tarmac)

* Love night stages. Hate late afternoon sun in eyes.

* Transit stages less than 10 miles.

* Single service area as Base of Rally Operations.

* Don't like TV or Press around.(Prefer small town hosts/locals only)

* Spectators: Prefer team, family and local spectators only.

* Like self-serve car wash near HQ or Service.

* Framed "Certificates" make great trophies. (inexpensive)

* Over $275 entry fee means fewer rallies.

* Enjoy post-rally food, drink & comradery! Very important!

Rich Smith
 

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>Do you prefer a single Coefficient 3 or several Coefficient
>1's/2's?

A season with a good mix of all sizes is good. The Coefficient 1's are pretty good for allowing people go get out and shake their cars down with minimal time and expense.


>How many special stage miles do you prefer?

The longer the better, 100+ would be nice, 150+ would be excelent!

>What length of special stages do you prefer?

Character is more important than length (it is not the size that counts ;) ) A really great road that is only 6 miles is fine but in general 12 miles to 25 miles with the occasional 40 to 50 mile one tossed in. Last years 20 something mile Treeline stage was brutal but a blast (35 very hard minutes).

>How many special stages do you prefer?

How many does it take to achieve the distance you want? Minimum 6 and probably max 20.

>How many transit miles is too many?

Anything over 2 times the stage miles is probably to much, ideal is 1/2 the stage miles.

>How many times should a stage be re-used?

2 times same direction just to keep it from getting old.

>What time do you like to start at?
>What time do you like to finish by?

Any time is fine. The more variety the better. For a single day event finishing early enough to have a fun party after is nice, last car in about 10:00pm.

>Do you like to run night stages?

You bet!

>What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?

That depends upon the race, the stage miles, the level of organization etc. Under $300 seems to be what is achievable for a well run and very challenging event. Less would of course be better. . .

>Do you mind paying more for good trophys/prizes?

Unless your class had 10 entries the trophy does not really mean much. Paying more for it is the same as going out and just buying one yourself. If there are plenty of entries there should not be a great need for extra cost, if there are few entries there is less "value" to the victory.

>Do you mind paying more for a tow fund?

Goal should be events near where the club members are (I guess we are lucky in CRS) discounts to out of area people seems reasonable but a tow fund? I don't think so.

>Do you mind paying more for an after-rally dinner/party?

I don't know how much Pete makes us pay for the pizza and beer after Treeline but whatever it is it is worth it. However I the food after Gorman last year was abslolutly fantastic and that would be worth something!

>Do you have any preferences about the park expose?

Park Expose is very important for getting people interested and excited about the event. I think a very public event at least a couple hours long is valuable.

>Do you have any preferences about the service area?

Just that it have enough room for all cars and service vehicles. Last year Treeline was a bit overcrowded.

>What kind of worker training/information should be provided?

The more the better. At least an hour course for the workers so they are somewhat prepared. Maybe a list of rules and duties for various jobs.

>What kind of spectator areas do you like to have?
>What kind of spectator information should be provided?

This is a touchy subject. I like as many spectators as possible but they do need to know the dangers involved and how their actions might seriously impact the future of rally. At Treeline last year there were a couple hundred spectators along the end of one stage and I don't think there were many marshals if any, however all the spectators were in safe positions and seemed to be acting responsibly. Just lucky? Perhaps.

>What kind of media coverage/exposure would you like to see?

It would be cool if the local news got involved. The more the better.

Bradney A. Boli
Over Exposure Racing
Honda Accord #311
 

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This was one of the first 40 or so posts in this forum. There used to be such a depth of experience in the discussions here. And the ideas! Such a variety, from so many people. :)

Anders
 

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This was one of the first 40 or so posts in this forum. There used to be such a depth of experience in the discussions here. And the ideas! Such a variety, from so many people. :)

Anders
Yeah.
Now....


A "National" rally is going on and people yapp about phone apps.
 

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> What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?

"Less than a national. $250 for one day. $350-500 for two days."
"******* $100-$125 for the 130mile event per day"
"... $300.00 for a 2 dayer 100+ miler is certainly doable in the SW... "
"* Over $275 entry fee means fewer rallies."
"Under $300 seems to be what is achievable for a well run and very challenging event."

good ol' days I guess.
 

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What do you think is a reasonable entry fee?

"Less than a national. $250 for one day. $350-500 for two days."
"******* $100-$125 for the 130mile event per day"
"... $300.00 for a 2 dayer 100+ miler is certainly doable in the SW... "
"* Over $275 entry fee means fewer rallies."
"Under $300 seems to be what is achievable for a well run and very challenging event."

good ol' days I guess.
After inflation adjustments, from 2002 (when what you're quoting was posted) to 2015:

Less than a national. $326 for one day. $456-$652 for two days.
$260-$326 for the 130mile event for both days
$391 for a 2 dayer 100+ miler is certainly doable in the SW...
Over $358 entry fee means fewer rallies.
Under $391 seems to be what is achievable for a well run and very challenging event.
Now... 2002 was before the invasion of stage notes, so let's factor in an additional, oh, $165 cost for Jemba stage notes:

Less than a national. $491 for one day. $621-$817 for two days.
$425-$491 for the 130mile event for both days
$556 for a 2 dayer 100+ miler is certainly doable in the SW...
Over $523 entry fee means fewer rallies.
Under $556 seems to be what is achievable for a well run and very challenging event.
It's not so far off from what exists now. Sandblast Rally was $540 and included Jemba notes... it was $499 for folks who got the "2WD discount". That meets two and is within 2% of meeting three out of five of the above desired "wish prices". And these were descriptions of what people WANTED, not what necessarily existed in 2002.

Anders
 
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