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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last week I was asked by one of the potential sponsors
?are you going to run Canadian Rally Championship or Subaru Rally Championship?. I said that we are going to run Canadian Rally Championship.

How the Championship should be name?

Jerry
 

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Jerry,
The proper name of the championship (at least in 2002 and I beleive 2003is:
The Subaru Canadian Rally Championship presented by Yokohama

Subaru and Yokohama are title sponsors and throw a LOT of money at the series. As many know the sponsorship deals are changing at the end of 2003.

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I heard the rumor that next season it will cost $1000 CDN to enter National Event and $650 CDN the provincial event. Shouldn?t CARS sign more sponsors to offset the cost for these who may have difficulties to pay the entries?
What about the local events like Rocky Mountain? By signing the agreement CARS will close the doors for potential local sponsors. Just one of the scenario:

Rocky Mountain Rally presented by ? Petro-Canada
Or
Rocky Mountain Rally presented by - Give them a Brake Inc. ;)


Jerry
 

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Where did you hear about the entry hike? I CAN'T afford those entries like $1000, thats not good news.

Yours in rally poverty,
 

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This is one of the problems with spreading rumours.

If all of the events were REQUIRED to run organiser provided course notes - as they do in the USA - the cost **PER COMPETITOR** woudl be about $350+

Rallysport os growing, and drawing more interest and CARS *IS* actively persuing more and different sponshorship deals. As it stands at the moment - there is already the provision for each individual rally to sell title EVENT sponsorship.

It is quite possible that it could be the Petro Canada Rocky Mountain Rally - round 4 of the SCRCPY.

The problem, as it is an any such organisation, is that most of the people involved are not professional fundraisers nor are they professional rally organisers.

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"The problem, as it is an any such organisation, is that most of the people involved are not professional fundraisers nor are they professional rally organisers."

Nor the CARS... and maybe it's time to think about bringing the professionals organizers. I don't mind Rocky Mountain or
" marketing" of CARS to be privately run...


"This is one of the problems with spreading rumours"

Look at earlier post on Subaru sponsorship. There wasn't any comments from CARS so...they must be gone?

p.s.

Chad, I think ALL Novice should have the brake in entry fees.
$350 is way too much.
 

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Well $350 I can deal with, but $1000 is out of the question. Although it would be nice to have organizer provided course notes. I think it would be a good idea for organizers to think about for this upcoming season.

Cheers,
 

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OMFG!

Please, do not tell that the "good price" rally haven, that Canada has been, is going away! This would seriously suck... The only reason I could afford to make the trek to Kananaskis was that the LATE entry was only $280 US! I want to keep spreading the good word about rally in Canada down here in the great USA, but...

Charles
MR2 #295

Edit: great.
 

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EVERYONE PLEASE BE CALM!

Canadian National events will likely become more expensive, IF the use of course notes is standardised. REGIONAL events MAY become slightly more expensive thanks to insurance concerns but certainly not to the level that some suggest.

Beyond that - there is a real economy of scale. The 17 car regional event we held was able to do better than break even, where as in 1999 Kananaskis drew only 6 cars and lost money.

The 'low cost' Canadian alternative will be around for a while, and we look forward to welcoming our American counterparts to our events for some time to come.
 

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Hi all,

I agree with Keith --- DON'T PANIC.

Suzanne and I were working on the Rocky budget this week and are "trying" to keep the entry fee to $500 or less for the national. The only increase as was suggested would be if CARS mandated course notes (and I doubt that will happen!). Then they would be 'optional'. Course notes are very expensive to have done professionally and our entry levels do not 'yet' support them --- My Opinion!

The other potential increase would be due to the increased safety requirements (insurance reasons) but we are trying to deal with that in other ways.

So ..... everyone please settle down and continue to build your cars. We realize that not everyone can afford the high entry fees.

Shawn Bishop

ps. On another note .... What percentage of your yearly rally budget is entry fees? Think about car prep, tires, gas, repairs, licences, travel, hotels, etc. I suggest less than 5%.




Rocky Mountain Rally
http://www.rockymountainrally.com
Calgary, Alberta
May 23-24, 2003
 

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Around 12% of my overall 2003 budget for 6-7 events. :)

Can someone give me a run down of the cost of making organizer provided course notes? I just want to keep my mouth shut before I know anything. And how much are they per team?

Thanks,
 

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Keith; Are you trying to start rumors? (Sorry, not really fair).
The organizer "provided" stage notes is, as I understand from Pete Lahm, self sustaining on the per cost...In fact has actually done better than expected this year.
(would be nice if the price would drop a bit now, but I won't hold my breath.
As far as entry fees are concerned, they have (seem to) skyrocketed in the past two years, anouther reason some of us are coming to rally in Canada (aside from great roads, friendy competitors, and well organized events)....that and 3 Canadian National events are within a 10 hour drive from my home.
- jeff secor
 

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Can someone clarify the difference between "professional" course notes and the organizer just doing course notes instead of a route book??? I can't see what the difference would be and have never heard of any pro-coursenote writers... why does the organization have to hire someone to do something that is almost being done already with the route books?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I would not panic? as long as I see Shawn and Susan behind the Rocky Mountain wheels.
Besides that Susan will become in January the Western Canada Rally Director and CARS Director.
I meet Susan and Shawn in March and they help me very much to understand ?rally business?. They are one of the best rally people in Weste. For "novice" like me it was pleasure to work with them on organizing the Kananaskis Rally.


Jerry
 

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>Jerry,
>The proper name of the championship (at least in 2002 and I
>beleive 2003is:
>The Subaru Canadian Rally Championship presented by Yokohama
>
>Subaru and Yokohama are title sponsors and throw a LOT of
>money at the series. As many know the sponsorship deals are
>changing at the end of 2003.
>
>Keith


How much of this "LOT of money" goes to the sponsoring club (serious question)? Who does the work during the rally (tongue in cheek)? Is the sponsorship affecting the club's grassroots (serious question)? Sponsoring clubs hardly, if at all, get a mention on the TV productions. Clubs, who take the risks etc, seem to be getting the short end of the deal, though I guess they are glad to have sponsors(?). Cant beat 'em, join 'em?

Craig

http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/rally.html
 

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RE: What is right? Now: Course Notes

>Can someone clarify the difference between "professional"
>course notes and the organizer just doing course notes
>instead of a route book??? I can't see what the difference
>would be and have never heard of any pro-coursenote
>writers... why does the organization have to hire someone to
>do something that is almost being done already with the
>route books?

Hi,

I have looked into this a bit. One Canadian event requested a quote from the company doing the US events and it was for US$7500 (or about $325CDN per car at Rocky - 35 entries, assuming everyone gets them).

For them to do it (as I understand it) they use a "black box" developed in Europe (which they have to lease per event). This box has several accelerometers to measure the degree of the turns and whether they tighten or open etc. The notes have a grading of 1 to 7 with some having
a '+' and a '-', so about 14 different gradings. Apparently very accurate!! This would be very difficult to identify from a route masters perspective from just looking. And everyone would view a 4 and a 5 different. Much more consistency if done by one system.

Then, after running all the stages once with the black box, they create the course notes, and re-run again the next day comparing the previous notes and adding in the rough spots, intersections, don't cuts etc.

This is done at least 2 more times (at least 4 complete times on the stages). And at least 2 people - one driving, one operating the equipment, checking the notes etc.

Having said that, many events are now moving much 'closer' to notes by putting many more instructions into the regular route books. We used to put only Cautions, gotchas and intersections in the book.

Pace notes, are made by the competitors during a pre-run of the stages. Used in Charlevoix, Rallye Quebec and Cherokee (I think)

Hope that helps and please feel free to correct me if I have something wrong.:)

Shawn
 

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I think that there is no way $7500 US can be justified when I would imagine there is very little difference between a thorough set of course notes by the organizers and this black box. Maybe it's pretty cool technology but I can't see the difference being worth that kind of money when it affects the entry fee as much as people are talking in here. And many rallies in Canada don't have anywhere near enough competitors to even think about paying for that kind of additional noting.

If the organizers would use the simple 'easy', 'medium', 'hard' calls int he course notes I'm sure the competitors can figure the finer aspects of the turns out as they happen, but would be very appreciateive of them all being recorded so that we can have almost rough pacenoting. I for one would like to see each corner called in the notes... it only makes sense after my experience codriving and driving once each... just my opinion.
 

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Whew!

Whew!
Boy am I glad to hear that I was freaking out for nothing!

I love Canada!!!

Car prep vs. entry fees, hmm, Quik figuring comes to me at around %30 went to entry fees/transit. Most of my rallying was here in the expensive USA and my car prep is minimal. I did build the car this year as well.

Next year I'm guessing since I'll have very little car prep to do my entry fee percentage will go up to around %50 of my total budget.

What do you think Chad? You and I have simular(no) budgets I bet.
Of course the future fees play a part of this new budget as well...
Charles
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RE: Whew!

I am over budgeting for sponsorship reasons, but if I run on only my pay check then the entry fees will be a much bigger precentage, more like 40% I think.

I agree with andrew on calling every corner but just with the organizer made notes. I think if the organizers can join around the table and figure out a standardization method then at least they should be similar. If not, the first stage will get teams calibrated to the notes. Its better than paying $7500 for one race, that sounds a bit outragous.

What is needed for self done pace notes? Time? Money?

Thanks,
 
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