[AlanPerry]

This topic has come up before, but I have never seen an answer so I figured I would ask it again.

What do rally competitors get for the Fram, Hawk, Sunoco and Valvoline stickers that we are asked to or, in some cases, required to put on our cars?

In CARS (Canada) rallying, I can name a benefit that I as a competitor (or that some of my competitors) get from every sticker that I have been asked to put on the car. I can't say the same thing for SCCA rally.

alan

 

[jandreini]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

Free stickers! All you want!

 

[Bob C]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

I thought you had to buy the stickers with the identification package.It sucks that not only do you get nothing from the sponsors, but you have to pay them to advertise their product.

Bob Campbell
[email protected]
BCR Rallysport
Colorado Springs, CO

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Or rather WHO _has_ benefited?

>
>
>What do rally competitors get for the Fram, Hawk, Sunoco and
>Valvoline stickers that we are asked to or, in some cases,
>required to put on our cars?
>
>In CARS (Canada) rallying, I can name a benefit that I as a
>competitor (or that some of my competitors) get from every
>sticker that I have been asked to put on the car. I can't
>say the same thing for SCCA rally.
>
>alan
Alan! You are raking muck here and you are going to get a lump of coal for Jesus's Birthday, or Kwansza, The Winter Solstice.

You have to think that things happen for some reason, and if you always ask what about me, like in this case, you already have the answer, the stonewall of silence to repeated requests for information IS your answer.

A far better question would be to assume that things happen for a reason and we have the stickers, let's ask it this way:

Who has benefited and how from this forcing of the stickers onto the cars?

I think it's too shameful to be answered.
One way or another.

Personally I think this is one more thing which should go straight to the SCCA Board of Governers for some clarification.

****Failing clarification of the full details of the deal, how about some Mass Refusal to put the stupid things on the car?*************

By the way, I use Fram and wish I could get Sunoco 94 here in Seattle(it is 98RON and all I really need in my Cosworth), and I use Valvoline often enough.
So it ain't the products, once again it's the PROCESS.

Oh, Alan you were at the first CCCP meeting were'nt you,?
Well you and Ross are arch typical Prole-le-rallistas, so why not join the Party?





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

 

[Chris Sanborn]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

> I thought you had to buy the stickers with the
>identification package.It sucks that not only do you get
>nothing from the sponsors, but you have to pay them to
>advertise their product.
>
>Bob Campbell
>[email protected]
>BCR Rallysport
>Colorado Springs, CO
I think we shouldn't bash the sponsors,they probably have the best intentions,they give the money to help the series,I think the problem is ,what did they do with it. The problem of not having the local sponsors who help with the rallies to make them happen getting shut out,I forgot which rally it was that the SCCA made them take down some local sponsors signs but that was very disturbing. I have a big problem with their sticker deal,I don't use hawk,I wouldn't put fram on my lawnmower,and valvoline is used on cars under $50. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the interest,I do,I would just wonder where that interest is being funneled. So to be constructive,lets open the financial records and see where it all goes,nobody will ever complain if it is spelled out properly.
See you at the pub,
Chris

 

[AlanPerry]

Pro-le-rallistas!

>Oh, Alan you were at the first CCCP meeting were'nt you,?
>Well you and Ross are arch typical Prole-le-rallistas, so
>why not join the Party?

Not to dilute my topic too much, but ...

Technically, I was the first person at the second meeting (at Wayne's World), but I was a bit too early and no one else was there. IIRC, there was not an exact start time for the meeting, which is something that I just can't deal with as a co-driver

alan

 

[JB Niday]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

You pay for the number backer, class and windshield stickers... all the other ones are free.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

JB, this is to you as PRB member, not you personally, cause you have your SCCA PRB member 10 gallon hat on today it seems.

Cut the narrow parsed reading thing out,shame on you, you know the question was, and has brought up numerous times by many many people, and is OBVIOUSLY a source of irritation and derision.
It's right there in the header.

And the more important question is just below.

What's the deal in plain english?

JB, show some fortitude, and be honest and answer this thing which has been studiously and shamefully avoided.

And just like Bill Barfoot when he posted his sample budget, you'll gain respect as a PRB member for the openess, rather than than the contempt aimed at those who refuse to comment.

And for that matter why can't some of the vast amounts of mooolah from this unknown sponsorship deal be used to cover costs of the rest of the stickers 'n stufff like the numbers backers, etc?

OK?

We still friends as competitiors?
Smooooch!




John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: Pro-le-rallistas!

Party?
>
>Not to dilute my topic too much, but ...
>
>Technically, I was the first person at the second meeting
>(at Wayne's World), but I was a bit too early and no one
>else was there. IIRC, there was not an exact start time for
>the meeting, which is something that I just can't deal with
>as a co-driver
>
>alan
Alan, the whole idea of meeting at dive bar is so that with the inevitable trickling in of people, if you arrive oily, you can sit down and keep yourself entertained.

And you don't have to drink the diluted stuff, they had decent beers.

You should have shown some poor planning skills Alan, you could have used your early arrival at the MTC to service your gullet before the rest of us got there.
What an advantage thrown away!

Don't do something like that again, it's a beginners mistake.
Just sit down and start drinking.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

 

[JB Niday]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

John (et al),
Sorry guys... I'd love to answer the question that you really want me to answer... but I can't. Not because I know and I won't say, but because I dont't know... neither does anyone else on the PRB.

The PRD's budget is an internal SCCA thing and the PRB has no jurisdiction there.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

 

[Foghorn]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

>Sorry guys... I'd love to answer the question that you
>really want me to answer... but I can't. Not because I know
>and I won't say, but because I dont't know... neither does
>anyone else on the PRB.
>
>The PRD's budget is an internal SCCA thing and the PRB has
>no jurisdiction there.
>
>J.B. Niday
>www.nidayrallysport.com

Unfortunately that seems to say an awful lot about the "club" that SCCA no longer is.

Kent Gardam

 

[JB Niday]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

This budget thing isn't a new development...

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

Thanks JB for an honest answer.
There is something clearly and seriously wrong with the situation you describe.

And if you think about it for a second, the standard answer of contact somebody on the PRB is by this answer shown to be in some serious cases, pointless waste of everybody's time.

PRD must go, and be replaced by somebody part of the board by general election and must be answerable to membership.

Is there any process to remove people who have lost the confidence of what seems to be every person I have ever heard express an opinion?





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

 

[Widget Codriver]

Process

>Is there any process to remove people who have lost the
>confidence of what seems to be every person I have ever
>heard express an opinion?

First off, to answer the question.... it's my assumption that you'd have to contact your Area Director. Better yet, become one. Talking with the other directors and the president might also be a good thing, regardless of which way you lean.

All is not sour in rallyland, however. On the club side of things we continue to see good stuff. In fact, if you come to the NorPac convention in Reno, NV, 10-12 Jan 2003, you'll learn about the new series sponsor for the Western States Rally Championship, a series based on club events.

Rally on!

John

 

[AlanPerry]

RE: Pro-le-rallistas!

>You should have shown some poor planning skills Alan, you
>could have used your early arrival at the MTC to service
>your gullet before the rest of us got there.
>What an advantage thrown away!

I am pretty sure that my route book and time card had it down as a ATC so I think that if I had partaken of refreshment I would have been guilty of illegal service.

alan

 

[AlanPerry]

RE: What is it that we get from Fram, ...

>This budget thing isn't a new development...

Are you saying that the SCCA budget (or the Perf Rally Department budget) is secret? Please enlighten me here. As I pointed out in another recent (and apparently related) thread, I am fairly new to SCCA.

Since SCCA is a 501(c)(4) non-profit, they must provide copies of their tax returns to anyone who asks. I seem to recall seeing a P&L statement printed in SportsCar at some point (but I may be thinking of some other organization).

I am looking for a serious answer to this question, not the standard SCCA flames. Is the Perf Rally Department budget secret and, if so, why? Also, how can this be reconciled against the "guiding principle of the SCCA", according to the Club by-laws: "The ultimate direction of the Club rests with the Members."

alan

 

[logicallychallenged]

Have you contacted the advertisers?

Jon, and JB, and everyone else.

Have you contacted the marketing offices of Farm and the rest to first, see if they are willing to send product to you for advertising on their cars? Discuss the topic with them is they say no. Be professional not vindictive.

Or have the organizers asked for thier support of individual events?

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Have you contacted the advertisers?

You may have a point there. But, if that's what we all (many people)have to do, then what do we have people at the SCCA for? Is that the way it works in other sponsored series?

 

[JB Niday]

RE: Have you contacted the advertisers?

I have spoken with Art Brown at Sunoco several times. I'm under the impression that they aren't making any money selling fuel to us at events (even at $5.00 a gallon for GT 104)... but I do appreciate their fuel being AT the events and service locations so I don't have to haul it!

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com

 

[MDBodnar]

RE: Have you contacted the advertisers?

And if the fuel was priced competitively, don't you think everyone would want to buy thier fuel?

For a while I filled up at Sunoco, but the warm fuzzies quickly wore off when I could see no benefit to the general competitor.

As I have said before -- it is a great way to police the manufacturers (to some extent), but why not make it advantageous to all of the competitors.

From an organizer standpoint, I would rather keep every penny of fuel buying in the locals hands, and the fuel truck is just one more vehicle messing up the service area, so no advantages to me as a competitor or to me as an organizer...

Mike