Special Stage Forums banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, we can all be done crying and sobbing and trying to get folks to give a crap about us. We are back to square one for the zillionth time in this discussion.

Here is what I think we should do. Given that the vast majority of rally folk have no idea what it takes to drive a 2wd car well and could care less about helping the 2wd classes grow and actually thinks that all the talent is up front in the Subes AND I DON'T SEE THAT PERCEPTION CHANGING ANYTIME SOON I propose the following:


1. Drop our egos. We all need to work on our driving. All of us.

We all have egos and we all think we are hot stuff and if only I had this or that or the next guys car I'd be getting the babes and all that dumb crap. CRIPES LET'S ALL EASE UP AND FORGET ABOUT IT!! Our egos will only lead us to dissapointment. Given more success would any of our egos be satisfied? Nope.

2. Let's help ourselves.

Group F is still the best thing we can do to raise the level of sport in our grassroots realm. I've taken a step back since I've been busy but I think that the G2 rules with a few of the GpF rules added, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN NATINOAL AND REGIONAL SO WE CAN ALL RACE EACH OTHER, will give us a good field as it has in the past. It provides a sporting experience that is fun.

We need people to make it work however. I'm pretty busy and not doing anything very well right now.

Should we take up RA's offer to score group F for 5 bucks per car?

Should Group F be scored like a national, as in one rally, not 2 little ones?

The only help we will get is from ourselves. Should we take the grassroots organization of Group F more seriously. It might be the time because if you look around there is nothing else out there for us except more boxes of Kleenex.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Why are we even calling them National events anyway?

If everyone could afford to and enter every event across the country, then, MAYBE.

Regardless of where you live and compete, all the events are regional.

The rest I agree with, 2 wheel drive rocks!

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
What is Rally really about?
Fun and Particle Board.
I have never driven a 4x4 car, I bet it would be fun, but I have lots of fun with out it.

BTW
"Fun and Particle board" is my team slogan and I am here by claiming all copy rights and trade marks!
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
>What is rally really about?
>Fun and Particle Board.
>I have never driven a 4x4 car, I bet it would be fun, but I
>hav lots of fun with out it.

That's the same sentiment rattling around in my head. I've been at it since the 70s in eleven different 2WD machines (the closest I've come to having an AWD car onstage was Car Zero duties at CT 2002) and I've had so much fun I can't figure out how to stop!

Halley ...
http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrealautosport
Then, BBBBB (Bring Back Big Bend Bash)
http://www.realautosport.com
 

·
don't cut
Joined
·
2,252 Posts
>Here is what I think we should do. Given that the vast
>majority of rally folk have no idea what it takes to drive a
>2wd car well and could care less about helping the 2wd classes
>grow and actually thinks that all the talent is up front in
>the Subes AND I DON'T SEE THAT PERCEPTION CHANGING ANYTIME
>SOON I propose the following:

Dammit Man, you went and got yourself all Jaked off again! Calm down for cripes sake or you'll end up a paranoid old bastard like me and Vanlandingham. }(

You gotta stop equating TV airtime with respect. If I've learned one thing during all the spectating I did this last year it's that it doesn't matter if a driver wins or sucks, when he's on stage everyone standing next to the road wishes they were him. Heck, just taking the start of stage rally lands you in an elite club of people willing to make the sacrifice and take the risk of running an event.

I'd argue that the majority of the people do know that running a 2wd car is difficult, and don't think that all the talent is up front. Has anybody ever denied that Doug Shepard, Mark Utecht, or Carl Jardevall don't have talent? Have these guys ever failed to disappoint at a spectator point? Heck no!

The TV people told me in no uncertain terms that they are looking for season long stories. They are going to feature classes with consistent battles. So, if you want coverage, if you want promotion, the answer is simple. Find a couple guys to race against, show up at every event, and beat your brains out within a few seconds of each other. I guarentee people will watch and be excited, regardless of what you're driving.

If nobody shows up to challenge Tanner this year, you won't see here much about PGT, but if Lurch and Dougie decide to have a knock down, drag out, turbocharged battle to the death, G5 will be the next hottest ticket. You don't get the coverage to get the support to race. You race to get the coverage to get the support.

Finally, don't forget what it's all about. I doesn't matter what you drive, as long as it's sideways (as evidenced by the fact that I drove a Saturn last year!)

The other night we got ten inches of snow. I took my POS Blazer out for a bit midnight hooliganry, and an hour later came back completely recharged. I've never been stoned, but after that little beat run I think I have an idea what if feels like. It's all good man, relax!

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

·
Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
RE: poor experience

Boo Hoo!
Whaaaaaa Whaaaaaaaaaa.
At least you're 1 of 25 to 50 entrants.
Try going to the runoffs where you're 1 of 650.
Or the Boston Marathon.
Boo Hoo.
Crash in front of a camera - always worked for me.
rz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
This is a post I put under a different subject I think this is the best thing to do.

I have an idea, and it seems so simple. All 2wd classes run national and club for the club price. With the amount of people running national events it won't make a difference.

I also don't run national because there is no insentive. It costs more if I DNF on friday I can't run saturday. If I win a national event in G2, I will not see coverage on TV.

So it works like this. Enter the race and compete in both national and club(this being the only option). If you DNF friday you can still run saturday, national won't count, but you still race in club! This way you have national points and club points for there own chapionships. The only thing that needs to be done is have RA cover the national results with tv and press releases.

It seems like it would work. Anyone find flaws with this system?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Well I read the subject and thought about what I would have written, then read Jake's content. I guess I am on another page.

For me, having driven a safe event and finishing make it a good experience. Improving on my last event's speed factor (sucking less) makes it better. Meeting a bunch of great people again and for the first time (competitors, organizers, volunteers and fans) make it great. Being asked to sign a program, being cheered at a spectator area or seeing us in photographs or video is unbelievable and appreciated.

I sometimes wish I could afford to drive an event more than a couple times a year. This is one of our hobbies. We do them all for personal satisfaction, either to relax or challenge us and some for the adrenalin rush, but none for a need to be recognized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
>For me, having driven a safe event and finishing make it a
>good experience. Improving on my last event's speed factor
>(sucking less) makes it better. Meeting a bunch of great
>people again and for the first time (competitors, organizers,
>volunteers and fans) make it great. Being asked to sign a
>program, being cheered at a spectator area or seeing us in
>photographs or video is unbelievable and appreciated.
>
>I sometimes wish I could afford to drive an event more than a
>couple times a year. This is one of our hobbies. We do them
>all for personal satisfaction, either to relax or challenge us
>and some for the adrenalin rush, but none for a need to be
>recognized.
>

Hey, you never know - there might even be 'AWD turbo people' out there for similar reasons :eek:

Robin
 

·
www.christianedstrom.com
Joined
·
2,144 Posts
> This is one of our hobbies. We do them
>all for personal satisfaction, either to relax or challenge us
>and some for the adrenalin rush, but none for a need to be
>recognized.

Seriously! If you want recognition, go on MTVs The Real World. I'm one of those 4wd people, and I think my illustrious rally career has led to recognition by about 25 people on Specialstage.com, 4 people on NASIOC, and the moderate amusement of my wife. I still like it, though.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
724 Posts
Your idea had holes all over it. So why should 2wd pay less entry than AWD? Do they run less miles? Does it cost less to insure? Yeah because nobody can motivate to run a full season then what we stick it to the organizers? It isn't half as much money to sanction a 2wd car. Now if you argue that 2wd is a budget class then what about people like Bill Malik who has a very expensive Volvo, or what do you do if I go out and buy a Super 1600 Saxo for 65000 euro but since it is 2wd should I still only have to pay the club price? Maybe we should all hand in our W2s at registration then there can be a sliding scale based on our tax bracket? Hey I get it, rally ain't cheap but contrary to the belief that many people seem to have on here just because you own a subaru doesn't mean that you are a millionaire. People need to stop looking for hand outs and start pounding the pavement talking to every local business to get support and sponsorship.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
<<<< just because you own a subaru doesn't mean that you are a millionaire. >>>>

No-one is saying that. I just want to say that if you own a Subaru and are able to run it, you have much more money that I and many others don't have.

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Christian, you have way too much recognition out there, you're a co-driver!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
It's not recognition for any one person, but recognition of the 2wd classes on TV and in the press releases. If that happens it will be easier to get sponsors, and in turn we will be able to race more. Get it straight people. We simply feel that RA should help to promote the 2wd classes a little more. After all a new team is required to start in these classes.

RA has been (in my opinion) much better for our sport than the SCCA was. I give them my deepest thanks for the work they have done. Nothing is perfect and we would be fools to think it can be, but it could be a little better.

Last year when the rallies were aired on OLN it looked very professional, and that's good. The problem is that it also looks very very costly. I think if the 2wd classes had more exposure people would see the more affordable side, and just maybe that would bring more sponsors and new teams into the wonderful world of rally.
 

·
CR>R5 into L3- 100 Finish
Joined
·
626 Posts
OUCH!
I got crucified for suggesting a change.
Good Luck!
You got my vote.

Whiplash Rallye Sport
(Rallye isn't a Crime)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
Hi Jake,

I've been trying to get inside your head on this one, and can't manage it. Since when did having a good rally experience have anything to do with others perception of my/our performance? I usually like to run my own event and if I achieve what I want, it feels great! Yes, kudos and some looks of surprse from others makes me chuckle to myself if I/we do well, but, just being out there is the main reward, by far. Even when I was much younger, I could get a good story out of finishing dead last or edning up in a good wreck.

Just being out there and doing this is the main thing for hobby ralliers. Thats' why I try to encourage the people who may be struggling to do this on a budget; if they get into even a few events, they'll get a lot of great experiences from it.

My favorite Abe Lincoln quote: "Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be."

Regards,
Mark B.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
>I don't see what the problem is. I drive a 2WD car and enjoy
>it a lot. I don't feel disadvantaged.
>
>What do you want? 2WD Affirmitive Action?

It's good that you don't feel disadvantaged because you aren't

The things I want will be realized as Group F continues to grow. It's just difficult to steer the thing in the right direction

What I am really looking forward to is for us to find ways to keep the entries higher in 2wd. I am always thankful for the opportunity to race but I see ways to make the experience more down to earth and substantive. It all starts with realizing what each person's means are and keeping it realistic. Obviously each person needs to learn these lessons on their own.

As people race a season and then dissappear into debt it doesn't helpe the sport or the events. Subaru and STI get the money when the events should be.

Spend money on entry fees, not hardware is good advice but seldom followed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
First off, I said nothing about you being rich, so stop your crying. I am only putting out an idea to get more national entries in the 2wd classes. Stop taking it personally.

G2 only had one entry for national at Sno-Drift and nine club. If RA allows G2, P, and G5 in both for the club price they are not losing anything. They will, however, gain some good national battles that they can promote. Which will bring more sponsors to the sport.

As for me getting local sponsors, you must have never seen my old CRX it was covered with stickers. I work hard to get sponsors. I am not complaining about the prices. I KNOW rally costs a lot of money and it is my responsibility to pay for it. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A HAND OUT!! Only trying to make it better for the sport.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
>G2 only had one entry for national at Sno-Drift and nine club.
>If RA allows G2, P, and G5 in both for the club price they are
>not losing anything. They will, however, gain some good
>national battles that they can promote.

That's a good idea. If RA adopted the ability of Group F rules to score all the cars that qualified together, regardless of national or regional, we could have a nice field at nearly all the events. The national guys could then actually feel like they were racing someone too!!! It could solve %95 of the problem
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top