[John Vanlandingham]

Holy sheeeet!
These guys crash more cars than we have entries!
They cars more _Historic_ cars than we have entries ferchristsake!!!
Some of you computer weeeezerds post some piccies!
http://www.peratielle.com/peratielle11-englanti.htm
http://www.peratielle.com/alajarvi2002.htm

"We're not worthy!!"

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[Rick277]

WOW

http://www.peratielle.com/rantaralli2002-5.jpg

http://www.peratielle.com/lahtisprint2002.jpg

http://www.peratielle.com/hyryla2002.jpg

http://www.peratielle.com/alajarvi2002-3.jpg

 

[SagSert]

RE: WOW

I can only say PERKELE !!!

Not the Mk1s for cryinoutloud !!!x(

Cheers

M.Samli

 

[DonSwier]

RE: WOW

>http://www.peratielle.com/alajarvi2002-3.jpg

Car #126 .... WINDOW NET, anyone?
x(

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

There is as always much serious beneath the flashy or seemingly puzzling refereneces I make.

There is a question posed in these hundreds of photos of all these obviously insane Finns which relates directly to the scene, and many of our troubles here in the US.

How do they encourage in a country of 4.1 million around 10,000 loonies to build cars?

How do they crash cars at the rate and violence they do, and not take more KIAs than they did in the Winter War?
Granted they average Finn is in very much better physical condition than the average Stage rallyist I see, but stamina doesn't help when being smooshed.

And if you guys imagining they are driving slower on average than we do you are delusional. On average much faster.
And how do they keep producing driver after driver capable of Top level results. (explain how somebody else's acheivement 10-15 years before makes the next guy faster today.)

IS the fact that until they get to highest International level, if they choose to do that with all the bother of homologated cars etc (and very few bother) they are doing blind or route book rallies have anything to do with the violence? Or the skills?



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

John how ironic you posted this. I'm sending a Datsun manifold to a historic rally competitor in Finland and I asked what was the average entry to the events he ran in. I was amazed by the reply , they are getting 100-110 cars at every event. Basiclly it is pretty apparent we live in the wrong country for Rally.

Tom Grossmann

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

Tom, I'm just overflowing with irony.
And yeah it's clear we live in the wrong counrty for rally, but you wouldn't like it there.
They don't work long hour on the job, they have free education thru university, they have had National Health Insurance for all residents since forever, they're Lutherand, but not Puritans, so you be having trouble with all the nekkid wimmin you meet in the Sauna daily, and since they do drink a bit at times, you'd join in and there goes your upbringing and you'd end up waking up with all these cutie pies named Erja and Liisa and Annika, er um I'm getting all nostalgic, forget about Erja!
Tom go rent the Jim Jarmusch film "Night on Earth" and look at the last episode. that's Finland in it's essecnce. And rent the film by Aki Kaurismäki "Leningrad Cowboys Go America". There are numerous reasons to do this, but understanding both Finnish mentality and their humor and their view of themselves would help understnd why they go do the things we see them do so much and so well.
L series manifold?
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

Wow more irony - Jim Jarmsuch movies , my particular favorite is "dead man". I may be in the wrong country for Rally but you are correct I wouldn't like it there - it's way to cold for someone like me who grew up in tropics and is found of tan women.Not to mention one drink and i would fall asleep in sauna and the 138lb me would evaporate (truth be told I'm found of woman in genaral). Manifod is A-series GX.

Tom

 

[jblewis]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

Care to remind us what the income tax rates are over there?

JBLewis

 

[Andrew Comrie Picard]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

There's a great chapter in the Gunnar Palm book "Tricks of the Rally Game" that describes succinctly why Scandinavians are unusually fast. Essentially, he says, they grow up with it - they've got the roads, they mostly live in the country - it's unusualy dark all winter - they've got the right cars - they're not afraid to break them and fix them - they've got families that support them - and, very importantly - thay've got an infrastructure to support them when they start thinking of making a career out of it.

And he wrote the book in 1972...

What is that group that Gronholm is managed by? Karjala? It's like a hockey team. Actually I think it is a hockey team too. But they've nurtered tons of drivers, including Rovanpera I think. Very interestingly I believe that Makinen was not part of that group and was always an outsider. Is he Swedish-Finnish? I think so. Shows how strong the culture is both in Scandihoovia and in rally there.

Having lived in Sweden and the whole time driven a caged Volvo Amazon with numbers on the side and my name on the wing, I noted that no-one looked twice at me. In fact I pulled into the university parking lot once and noticed that the Peugeot 205 beside me had aux lights and flaps and - oh look - a cage. Another university commuter in a rally car. Anywhere you go in Scandinavia, rallying is like dirt track racing in the southern US - everybody does it or knows someone who does.

And going for long long long mid-winter drives in the black of the night through the forests of Varmland - well it's pretty good for your driving.

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.

Oh, and I'll take back Lovisa, or Asa, or Birgit any day. And having lived in America for a couple of years now (donning....nomex....now...) I'll pay the taxes.

 

[derek]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

>Care to remind us what the income tax rates are over there?
>
>JBLewis

And yet the average guy still has the expendable income to build a rally car and compete...

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

Well, attempting to keep this somewhat on topic of What are these loonie Finns doing that we could learn from regarding recruitment, safety and participation:
Can't be all that bad if a sparsely populated country with NO PROVERTY, 100% literacy, probably 75% multi-lingualism, by US standards NO CRIME, very good heralth care, shorter working week, 4-5 weeks of vactaion after 1 year and stacks of other holidays, and a population of only 4,100,000 can have 10,000 rally licence holders, now can it.
Let's see: USA 263,000,000, and maybe 500 licence holders and last year 161 individuals entered a National Championship Rally.

What can we learn from them regarding participation, and saftey, and possibly attitude or approach to the whole subject.
Shame Topi is over there lounging around in a sauna, probably drunk, with two or three well tanned sun hound cuties, all of them nude and laconicly talking about if the temperature is hot enough, and how their tan is doing, and where is the liquor? (Tom, in the way far north, as soon as anything resembling sun is seen, people soak it up in droves, imagine all the offices emtying out for lunch and all the women stripping down to their shorts every lunch from around 15 May onwards. rough, I know I used to have to eat my lunch while surrounded by acres of Swedish women doing the same when I lived on Östermalm in Stockholm.)

Should we study their saftey rules?

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

John I tried to imagine lunch time full of women in short shorts but I had to stop as it made it difficult to type. Ok now to reality , yes when I got E-mail about manifold I asked about a dozen questions on Rally in Finland. As a organizer I'm "sure" I could learn a hell of a lot from how they do things.

Tom Grossmann

PS women in tropics are born with tans - bonus since they have no tan lines

 

[jprowland]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

>And how do they keep producing driver after driver capable
>of Top level results. (explain how somebody else's
>acheivement 10-15 years before makes the next guy faster
>today.)

I am firmly of the belief that the world will never see the best rally driver ever, because the guy (gal?) has never even been in a rally car, nor never will. The perfect combination of reflexes, athleticism, intuition, etc. will go to waste just because the guy chose to do something else. The same goes for just about any sport.

But when you have a higher percentage of the population competing at the same sport, there's a higher chance to see the person with the most natural ability rise to the top. Hence, the number of top-level Finns in international rallying.

"In order to finish first, you must first finish."
"No, in order to finish first, you must first BE Finnish."

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-driver, #896 Audi 4000 Quattro turbo, Open
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

Being a Finn doesn't seem to hurt as a rally driver. I think it may just simply be of number of people driving and the adverse road conditions the average Scandenavian has to negotiate on a day to day basis. USA has best basketball players in the world because even the average pick up game here has talented players, plus we have a feeder system in the form of school leagues. You know I have my son Autocrossing in a Kart , do we need some type of Kart for Rally Cross , you know get them started at 7 and 8?
Back to what John says what are they doing over the pond that we are not??

Tom

 

[mgpsmith]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

I don't know the facts on this but I'd be suspicious they don't have Walmart/McDonalds/NASTYCAR etc. to cater to and encourage the non-rallying/non-rallyable population.

 

[RussR]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

Same planet, different worlds!


>They don't work long hour on the job, they have free
>education thru university, they have had National Health
>Insurance for all residents since forever, they're
>Lutherand, but not Puritans, so you be having trouble with
>all the nekkid wimmin you meet in the Sauna daily, and since
>they do drink a bit at times, you'd join in and there goes
>your upbringing and you'd end up waking up with all these
>cutie pies named Erja and Liisa and Annika, er um I'm
>getting all nostalgic, forget about Erja!

 

[Brian Scott]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

The bottom line is TO GET KIDS IN CARS EARLY!

You cannot wait till you're 16 to get a person into a car. You're too old and your brain has absorbed too much.

Look at 1/4 midgets and karts. You put a 6 year old in a car and tell him/her "Keep it flat through that corner....you can do it."

After a couple offs/crashes/etc...they finally pull it off. Nobody over 16 is anywhere near the 6 year olds speed because at 6 THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER. THEY ARE NOT AFRAID AND ARE A SPONGE.

Look at most succesful racer in any sport and they STARTED YOUNG! Mom/dad/uncle bought and paid for everything and encouraged and in many cases pushed them towards this.

Think moto-x where they have TONS of kids classes.

There will be a top Int'l driver when/if a Mom/Dad/Uncle decides to try and steer a child they know into the rally direction.

I saw my first dirt road when I was 18!

Brian "My 6 year old nephew will be us all when he turns 16 and runs his first rally"

 

[wvonkessler]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

> Being a Finn doesn't seem to hurt as a rally driver. I
>think it may just simply be of number of people driving and
>the adverse road conditions the average Scandenavian has to
>negotiate on a day to day basis. USA has best basketball
>players in the world because even the average pick up game
>here has talented players, plus we have a feeder system in
>the form of school leagues. You know I have my son
>Autocrossing in a Kart , do we need some type of Kart for
>Rally Cross , you know get them started at 7 and 8?
> Back to what John says what are they doing over the pond
>that we are not??
>
> Tom


'Nuff said. http://www.rallykart.info

Wilson

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: No go look! IT's nuts: SWEETBLEEDINGJESUS!!

That's what I'm talking about how do we get the kids in these and let them Rally-X. I tell you this I watch way to much Racing on TV and my son finds it all boring except Rally. He especially likes the legends of motorsports programs when they have Rally. I think he really would love to Auto-X on dirt with his Kart. So how do we convince SCCA that if Karting is good for Auto-X it's good for Rally-X

Tom

PS: before anyone gets hung up about kids flipping karts in the ruts there is a simple solution - run the kids first before all the cars.