[aafce]

I am pretty new to this forum and may do not know past discussion on this topic.
I just wonder why there is a HUGE difference in entries fee between US and Canadian rallies.

To enter Canadian Rally Championship cost about 295 USD but if you would like to enter USA rally it cost 1000 USD.

Jerry

 

[RichardM]

Because US rallies are 3 times better!!!


Not really but I can't think of another real reason
Richard

 

[Bruce]

About all I can suggest is that everything costs more in the US.
Since their prices are relatively low, no one is demanding accountings from Canadian events. I can tell you one thing - no US organizer is getting rich.

Your estimate of a US entry fee is a bit high...they're more in the $600-800 range...still high.

Bruce

 

[Morgan]

I am sure it will take an organizer to set the record straight, but my assumtion is that it is because it cost more to secure the roads here than in Canada.

 

[perodi]

US rallys cost more due to road access and INSURANCE!

God bless tort law,
Patrick

 

[Bruce]

>I am sure it will take an organizer to set the record
>straight, but my assumtion is that it is because it cost
>more to secure the roads here than in Canada.

In general, I believe that's true...but there are also US events that pay very little for their roads. Insurance is indeed a big expense...but research has shown that SCCA's insurance is cheaper than anything we can get independently.

Bruce
Ojibwe Forests

 

[aafce]

I cannot imagine that anybody who rallies can get rich in North America. I rather see the opposite? but seriously.
Here we have only one border and the same love for this sport. Why we cannot make this sport better and financially equal.
If we all care why we cannot support these teams who just entering this sport. Setting up some kind of ?different entry level fees?. This could potentially attract more people to this sport. Is anybody thought about idea of organizing North America Rally Conference to discuss these issues?

Jerry

 

[jandreini]

Actually, in most of the world, privateers do pay a different entry fee than sponsored teams. The powers that be only tell you the parts of FIA "this" and FIA "that" they want you to hear.

 

[Bruce]

>Actually, in most of the world, privateers do pay a
>different entry fee than sponsored teams.

Very true...but the sponsored teams get extra things for their money, like garage areas, helicopter pads and stuff. US organizers largely don't have such things to sell. It seems a little unfair to charge one team more than another for the same rally based solely on the stickers on their cars.

Bruce

 

[SagSert]

RE: My 2 cents

It's true that FIA sanctionned rallies all over the world have lower entry fees for privateers. Did you know that for most rallies there is no entry fee for a competitor from a different country who wants to compete? ZIP, ZILCH, NADA ! Not only foreign privateers don't pay an entry fee, some rallies (Rally Anatolia, Halkidikis, Hebros, Rally of Turkey to name just a few) also provide them 2 rooms (breakfast and lunch included upto 6 people) and 200 litres of race fuel absolutely FREE. Imagine how much the Canadians would love this setup if it was applicable here. Now let me ask everybody a simple question;

IF THEY CAN DO IT IN DEVELOPPING COUNTRIES, HOWCOME WE CAN'T
DO IT HERE, DON'T WE HAVE MORE RESOURCES THAN THEM ?

I don't know, maybe I'm thinking outloud again, maybe I'm getting slightly mad at SCCA for treating us like red headed stepchild (no offense my Irish fellows). I raced every single event I mentionned above and maybe that's why I'm getting pissed off, I've seen their resources and conditions yet they put together World Class events (most of them are coeff 20 or 30 European Championship rallies now) without burdening the privateers.

Cheers

M.Samli

 

[Morgan]

RE: My 2 cents

One word: LIABILITY

 

[SagSert]

RE: Liability ???????

Please explain what you mean by liability.
I'm affraid of drawing the wrong conclusion. I don't think you want to say that the liabilities are higher here than anywhere else around the world.

Cheers

M.Samli

 

[aafce]

RE: Liability ???????

Bruce,
How much will cost you insurance for Ojibwe Forests?

Jerry

 

[Morgan]

RE: Liability ???????

>Please explain what you mean by liability.
>I'm affraid of drawing the wrong conclusion. I don't think
>you want to say that the liabilities are higher here than
>anywhere else around the world.
>
>Cheers
>
>M.Samli


In America, people sue at the drop of a hat, so organizers have extremely high liability insurance costs, which is why they can't afford to do things like offer people free entry. Also, In developing countries, I would expect it costs close to nothing to secure the roads that the cars race on, here it is big bucks since the roads are either privately owned logging roads or government owned. Another reason is; there is more manufacturer support to off set the costs in other countries due to the popularity of rallying.

 

[SagSert]

RE: I agree

I agree with your comment concerning the sue happy attitude.

I hope we are not doomed to have high entry fees and overall higher costs because of a mentality I'm affraid no one can change.

You are right about the high cost of insurance, which brings us to opening another can of worms.

FIA rule book states that it is the ASN's (National Sports Authority-Authorite Sportive Nationale) responsability to secure insurance, so far it's almost like here, however, the ASN is free to use the insurance assistance offered/provided by FIA if they choose to do so, and in most cases the cost of this incurance is far below the one that the ASNs can obtain on their own. Which shows a slight variation from SCCA's attitude. FIA is there to help. Maybe we should consider modeling our system similar to or in accordance with FIA so that we can take advantage of their insurance assistance.

Cheers
M.Samli

 

[aafce]

RE: I agree

I don?t think cost of insurance plays the major obstacle to popularize this sport here. Here in Western Canada the local municipality, local government agency and private companies don?t charge for using their ?territory?. Everybody see the great benefit for the community? and it?s great!

Tiger Woods once said:

?My dad has always taught me these words: care and share. That's why we put on clinics. The only thing I can do is try to give back. If it works, it works.?

Maybe it?s time for car manufacturers to put in place ?rally clinic? and start give back to others?

Jerry

 

[Andrew Comrie Picard]

RE: I agree

Just FYI - there's not much difference in litigiousness (the tendency to sue) between the US and Europe any more.

But in Europe there is a more sophisticated motorports insurance industry that insures more events per weekend and can spread more risk across more events, as well as a risk-analysis calculus much more accurate that doesn't require a "padding" to cover uncertainty. Also payouts on court cases and consequently insurance are higher in the USA - this is not the function of litigiousness, but of the jury system that is rarely if ever used in Europe and so results in sensible payouts more often (juries usually give insanely too much).

Also, as noted, I suspect the greter visibility for sponsors plays a role - more sponsor $$ per event.

However, I don't understand the US vs. Canadian difference at all, except perhaps that our (Canadian) road fees are lower.

ACP
www.musketeerracing.com
Flirting with the laws of physics.

 

[Bruce]

RE: I agree

>FIA rule book states that it is the ASN's (National Sports
>Authority-Authorite Sportive Nationale) responsability to
>secure insurance, so far it's almost like here, however, the
>ASN is free to use the insurance assistance offered/provided
>by FIA if they choose to do so, and in most cases the cost
>of this incurance is far below the one that the ASNs can
>obtain on their own. Which shows a slight variation from
>SCCA's attitude. FIA is there to help. Maybe we should
>consider modeling our system similar to or in accordance
>with FIA so that we can take advantage of their insurance
>assistance.

US organizers are allowed to purchase their own insurance, as long as it has the limits and coverages SCCA requires. No one does it - do you know why? Latest quotes show that insurance coverage for a US ProRally would be better than TWICE what SCCA charges. Believe me, we've done the numbers.

Further, there are a VERY limited number of companies in the US that will write rally policies.

Bruce
Ojibwe Forests

 

[robin]

RE: I agree

I think the notion of the US being more 'litigious' arises from the very high punitive damages awarded by juries in civil cases. I believe there are limits to punitive damages awarded in Canada.

Whether this adds up to lower insurance costs, I wouldn't know.

In the current climate of governemnt services downloading, the municipalities across much of Canada have not only been saddled with more costs/responsibilities, but also more power. Municipalities are always looking for ways to promote themselves, increase tourist traffic etc. Even when potential rally roads do not fall under their jurisdiction, they hold a lot of sway - "don't screw with us, we've got to fund daycare now..." I believe the organisers of Voyageurs had very positive experiences with Parry Sound.

Robin

 

[SagSert]

RE: Alternative insurance company

How about Lloyds of London. They insure everything and their fees are not unreasonable. Couple of years ago, for a promotion we were running, the company I worked for bought an insurance policy for the highest temperature for a specific day and it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Just a thought.

M.Samli