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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As a spectator, I think it gets a little boring to see everyone driving a Subaru or an EVO. This is really relevant when you see the top ones go by at Speed, then you see the rest of them just doing their best.

I would like to see more unique cars out there, racing and you end up cheering for the underdog who is trying his best.

We can discuss any point we want.

I wanted to start with my wonder of why no one has tried to create a new style Celica Rally car (year 2000+). Sure, its only a FWD, but should it not be able to race with some VW Golfs, Fiestas, SRT4 Neons, etc etc etc?

Are they just too fragile to even bother? I'd give it a go someday if it makes sense!
 

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People pick cars that are cheap, easy to build/modify, have a history of rally (meaning parts already developed, tested, and for sale), have a familiarity with, or have a love for a particular car. Or, a combination of those.

I love seeing a lot of different cars rally, since you stand out in a sea of Subarus, but at the same time, I'd love to not mess with my car constantly and just have stuff work.
 

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IMHO, one of the most important systems on a rally car is the suspension. If it can't be made to work properly for the conditions, you'll either bend or break (and replace) it frequently. Or be driving very slowly. Odds are if you pick one of these cars to prep, you'll be amoung the people who've built a car, entered one or two events, then never we hear from them again. So it depends on your objective and bank account.
 

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I think it we be awesome to run a really unique car and to see more of them out there. But yeah, you need to be able to get parts. I bought a Subaru. :(

Not that I am really sad to have a Subaru, any car that gets me out there... Wouldn't be my first pick if I could race anything, though.

Tim.
 

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I wanted to start with my wonder of why no one has tried to create a new style Celica Rally car (year 2000+).


New and different cars mean doing a LOT of development and custom fabrication. With Subarus and Mitsubishi there are global resources of knowledge and parts that are proven to work. (Similar for VW in the 2wd cars)

The celica above did fine, after a lot of development, but certainly didn't do anything extraordinary. (It was a P3 car, not Gr2)

(the 'proof' watermark is from the photog's site, not an ignorant statment of 'proof' that the car exists )
 

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I have a 95 celica, converted to AWD. If I had to do it over again i would just buy a subaru. For one it's too small for me since I'm tall. Parts availability is more difficult...


There's a reason people run similar cars and not just because it's a fad.
 

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Gosh! You all can't imagine the number of phone calls Bob, Mike, and I have fielded over the years from people asking if their "unique name here" would be legal for rally. I'd say the vast majority of those are being considered because they're sitting in someone's driveway. Almost none of them are ever built. Usually because the development would be too difficult and expensive.
JBN
 

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I have a 95 celica, converted to AWD. If I had to do it over again i would just buy a subaru. For one it's too small for me since I'm tall. Parts availability is more difficult...


There's a reason people run similar cars and not just because it's a fad.
Didn't you just reshell said Celica? Not that I'm complaining, it'll be good to see you back out on stage.

The other, less spoken rule, is run something where there are parts in the parking lot. RWV required the acquisition of an overflow tank cap from a workers car, and the blatant stealing of a transmission mount from one of the guys who was on our crew. Having a popular car will make this easier, and probably means you'll be able to scrounge up crew who know your car as well.
 

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X Mon™;420180 said:
Didn't you just reshell said Celica? Not that I'm complaining, it'll be good to see you back out on stage.

The other, less spoken rule, is run something where there are parts in the parking lot. RWV required the acquisition of an overflow tank cap from a workers car, and the blatant stealing of a transmission mount from one of the guys who was on our crew. Having a popular car will make this easier, and probably means you'll be able to scrounge up crew who know your car as well.

Well... kinda. I bought a donor car, but the cage was fine, had to chop off the roof rear quarters, front fender, hood bumper etc.

However for what I paid for the donor car, after the engine and other misc. parts i've sold from it, and the money ill get from the shell at the scrap yard, i'll be down only $200.

If the cage was bent and i had to redo it, I was probably done with the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
New and different cars mean doing a LOT of development and custom fabrication. With Subarus and Mitsubishi there are global resources of knowledge and parts that are proven to work. (Similar for VW in the 2wd cars)

The celica above did fine, after a lot of development, but certainly didn't do anything extraordinary. (It was a P3 car, not Gr2)

(the 'proof' watermark is from the photog's site, not an ignorant statment of 'proof' that the car exists )
Thanks Keith

This is almost exactly what I was thinking about in my head, a Production class Celica. So it is possible, just difficult.

At first, I was just imagining having a Toyota Rally car, and I originally thought about my old Corolla, but why would you start with a corolla when we all have an idea of what it has to offer.

The same question goes to why there does not seem to be many newer Civic rally cars, even if there are much greater numbers when you get into the mid 90's model years. I know I have seen 1 newer model civic in the US, but that is it.

It is just a bit shameful that the only new car you can convert into a reliable 2WD rally car is a Fiesta. I have not seen any others to date.

I agree with everyone saying that you want to have a reliable car and finish rallies. Its more fun that way, cause you get all the mileage. I was also thinking that Toyota is a reliable name, how could we make this work?

Another Idea I have is to start with a late 80's Mustang. RWD would be fun to drive, the class needs the competition and I would think there are several donor cars available for parts. I have not seen any Mustang Rally cars in Canada, and know of only 1 or 2 in the US.

Thanks for the great info guys, keep the ideas coming!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I have a 95 celica, converted to AWD. If I had to do it over again i would just buy a subaru. For one it's too small for me since I'm tall. Parts availability is more difficult...


There's a reason people run similar cars and not just because it's a fad.
Thanks for the input. I actually would think that the older AWD celica cars would be better as a rally car, but I was imagining that parts and availability would make it more expensive to run and fix than the newer ones.
 

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Another Idea I have is to start with a late 80's Mustang. RWD would be fun to drive, the class needs the competition and I would think there are several donor cars available for parts. I have not seen any Mustang Rally cars in Canada, and know of only 1 or 2 in the US.

Thanks for the great info guys, keep the ideas coming!
There are 2 of us Mustang drivers entered at Ojibwe Forests Rally this coming weekend.
 

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The problem with the Celica you speak of, dream of, IMO, is it's low roof line. A car with a low roof line sucks for putting a cage into and after the cage is in place, it's hard to fit people wearing helmets into it safely. You would have to bolt the seat to the floor pan and have one that lays back a bit too, if you're taller than say 5'8". If you've seen my '84 Celica around the web, or the build thread in the construction section here, I can't comfortably even fit into it with a helmet. The seat is about as low as the floor allows and I only have a half cage, so nothing over head. I considered a Mazda MX-3, similar size to te '00-ish Celica, same trouble, too low a roof line for me.

-Jon
 

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The yellow celica pictured was actually built buy davenport racing for Bob Olson to run production here in the states. DMS built the struts and seemed to handle pretty good. It's first event was snodrift and hit a tree. Second event was Cherokee trails with a second in class to Jeff fields celica of the same generation. Both celicas did quite well. There was plenty of suspension travel and plenty of power being the gts model. I think it's a pretty good choice. The yellow celica was sold from Bob Olson to th fellow in Canada after bob rolled it in Oregon. Due to rule changes they had to rebuild th cage to match Canadian rules of larger tubbing. They would not except the 1.5x.120 wall main and side hoops. If you like I say build it. Just be ready to put your thinking cap on!
Doug Davenport
www.davenportracingusa.com
 

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I'm going with the Mini even though I would prefer a Impreza for all the reasons mentioned. The Mini is going to take a lot of development but as I know Subaru I'm converting most parts over to Subaru to save costs and development. Fitting STI struts was not easy but they work. The reason for the Mini was the topic of the this thread. It's different and will gain me much sponsorship down in Costa Rica. Even David Richards of Prodrive knows what I'm doing. I woundn't get the attention with an Impreza!
 

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The problem with the Celica you speak of, dream of, IMO, is it's low roof line. A car with a low roof line sucks for putting a cage into and after the cage is in place, it's hard to fit people wearing helmets into it safely. You would have to bolt the seat to the floor pan and have one that lays back a bit too, if you're taller than say 5'8". If you've seen my '84 Celica around the web, or the build thread in the construction section here, I can't comfortably even fit into it with a helmet. The seat is about as low as the floor allows and I only have a half cage, so nothing over head. I considered a Mazda MX-3, similar size to te '00-ish Celica, same trouble, too low a roof line for me.

-Jon



Yeah, that low roofline sucks. My cage is about as tight as you can get it, i'm 6'2'' 200; codriver is 6'2'' probably 230. We're like sardines.... i've already remade the floor so I can get the seats lower, but still not ideal.
 

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The Jeep has the durability and parts availability...but still doing the research (trial and error) in figuring out exactly which shocks and valving work has been a pain in the ass.

I do really like the fact that I stick out in the sea of Subarus...even if that means I'm sticking out at the end of the line...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
OK, thanks for all the info guys! Maybe we could create a list of the things that you should look into first if you want to determine if a street car can be made into a good rally car! Maybe there's already a thread on that one. So far, you seem to need headroom, spare parts, and strong suspension that can accommodate travel. (I heard that is the problem with the new Mini, so that is what "Ugly" has to deal with).

Sadly I'm still broke (unless I sell my house and live in a cardboard box!) so it may be a while for me! If money were no object, I suspect that the new Sonic would make a good rally car too. This is of course based on the Rob Dyrdek kickflip video.
 
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