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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK -pretend it isn't me asking this:

If someone were to, say, give up on bringing his Volvo 122 rally car to North America and, say, think in a very foolish manner about prepping relatively inexpensively (snicker) a Volvo 142 for occasional stage (really endurance stage) and occasional road use, uh, well, would anyone that he knows know where to dig up maybe, uh, a good shell, some R-sport parts, some experience etc.? He already has a bit of a line on these through a good friend (a conversation with whom started this episode), but he tells me he's kind of wondering what might be out there. He also told me that he should have his head examined.

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.
 

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- Thanks but no thanks....
- I've retired.....in the US

BUT:
- IF you're going to rally/race in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Estonia, Russia or Croatia in summer time - please, call me.
- I can and will help you!
- Winter: 818-765 5542 (California)
- Summer (cell Ph): -358-40-81 88 179 (Finland) or (cell Ph) -46-73-566 65 09 (Sweden and rest of Europe)

PS. IF/WHEN you get fed up with inferior races/rallies and/or politic - come to FUN Europe!
 

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WTF
A 142?
Why not find an old horisontal freezer, fill it with lead to get the weight in the ballpark, screw som fimsy casters on, and then drag a stick against the back wheel on the side you want to turn.
Why not just put your head in a upright freezer since it looks like a 142 and freeze yoursaelf?
A 142?
WTF

Why give up on a nice Amazon, it runs duddnit?
Ro-Ro Southhampton to Newark for cheep.
Amazon gooooooooood.
142 piiiiiiiiiig.


Or to put it another way and this is serious " what is the imagined advantage to a 142 vs a Amazon?"
you can do all the same mods so..........?

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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RE: USA vs Europe

....and in meantime, while you guys are busy dealing with an overly exciting SCCA historic "QUIZ" game I'm dealing with this:

http://www.historicrace.fi/hgr3ilmot.htm

...man, my legs are hurting walking the grid...

.....and rooting for my parts in various cars: Volvo, Starlet, BMW, Falcon and so on - all MADE IN AMERICA!
 

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RE: USA vs Europe

John just loves to talk smack about the 140's... I would rather reck this volvo then a 122... Does the 122's still have the solid steering rod? I was thinkin about rallyin a 122 but the parts are way harder to come by then for a 140... Im not sayin rally parts, Body parts!
Matt
1971 Volvo 142E
 

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RE: USA vs Europe

>John just loves to talk smack about the 140's...
No I ask a question to ACP whay he has given up on importing h the Amazon he already has.
And ask the still unanswered question of "Why 142 with the big pigginess of it vs the Amazon?, that is WHAT ADVANTAGE?"

And saying a ponderously huge, absurdly heavy, horrible steering car with a smallish engine for its size/weight is not talking smack.

ACP has an Amazon.
To others with some sort of obstinate fixation with 142 I say there's nothing wrong with the car, just their brains since there exsist a much superior car just afew numbers away: the 240 family.
Proven good even NOW.
remember the question is "what advantage?"


I would
>rather reck this volvo then a 122... Does the 122's still
>have the solid steering rod? I was thinkin about rallyin a
>122 but the parts are way harder to come by then for a
>140... Im not sayin rally parts, Body parts!
>Matt
>1971 Volvo 142E





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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RE: USA vs Europe

>I would
>rather reck this volvo then a 122... Does the 122's still
>have the solid steering rod?

I believe the scar visible on my pop's face from 39 years ago (he slammed his first 122 into a tree) would suggest the answer is yes.

Thank goodness for them belts, though, or I might not be here writing this (since I'm a '65 model).;)

(edited for year typo)
 

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When your friend looks for a shell, he should check for holes under the caprpeting. If there floor looks ok and the stock jack points are still on there pretty well (esp. the front ones), the shell should be in pretty good shape.

Any parts that your friend can't get at IPD are probably available in most salvage yards or at the hardware store. Many parts from the 240 are also interchangeable.

As long as your friend doesn't get too crazy with engine mods, the 140 doesn't really need any special parts to be a decent rally car. It has a good 4 speed transmission, 4 wheel disk brakes and a pretty tough suspension.

Will MacDonald
1968 Volvo 144
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ha! What a great set of responses!

Yeah - uh - the Amazon. Well that's a good question JV. The truth is I'm a little afraid to go see it again. It's been sitting since I parked it in Essex in February 2001 immediately after averaging 96mph on a run from Stockholm to Calais (with a Swedish military bike on the roof). The engine is a terrific build but the old girl needs some attention. Maybe you're right. I have a history with that car. But it's like getting together with an old girlfriend instead of discovering someone new.

The old girlfriend is right-hand-drive, too. Guess I could line up with half the Evos here then.

Also - and this is what started the rot perhaps - the rear drums suck and most of the innovation I've had to do on the car has been in trying to get various brake shops to rivet various different materials to scads of different cores.

And, as a question now, why is it that all the Volvos on the TWE marathon events are 142s? I thought there must be something in that. Keep in mind that my car is built for FIA historic ie. 1962 rules, so it's a 1.8 liter with SUs and no limited slip (although with an M41 overdrive and the high rear axle). I think on the 142 you can use Webers, an LSD (or perhpas more accurately a locking diff), and of course you have the rear discs, right?

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.

PS here she is, by the way. On a fast TSD - which is to say the paint was bubbling on the front wheels at the checkpoint after the descent of the Turini, on which we were the only car unpenalised.

I'm navigating in this photo. You can tell because I'm pointing.

http://musketeerracing.com/photos/2002/misc/volvo1.jpg
 

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As for why 142 are so common, just a suggestion: like the old ring- ding Saabs, and the V4 Saab, the Amazon was a good car and I think they all got either a) held on to forever
or for our purposes here
b) passed onward and onward and onward thru so long thru the 70s and even in to the mid 80s that they all eventually died.
As for the spec of the 140 series cars there, maybe that is what's needed to beat the mighty 850 Saab.

And who says you can't use a LSD in the M27 axle.
Here, you could very well bang in a M30 no problemo, and the rules are relaxed on the brake thing, or if not should be, it was just the shoe question which got me to convert my old 1969 V4 to 1969 99 rear discs.
I was killing a set of shoes in one evening with a very mild spec motor, they'd just flake apart, and it's been 15 years since I've seen a Saab read drum in spec re max diameter. And like the Amozon there haven't been any new ones since last century!!

Swap it over to LHD and bang in a 240 rear axle and don't say anything, bore it to 91mm and call it good.
And forget those 140 Refrigerators.


John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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Your friend should ignore JV's comment about the 142 being an over weight pig. I had my 71 142E on the scale at summit point raceway, and with me in the car it was only 2750. Also, that is with the car in street trim, not stripped down. In other words, the shell is only 150 or so lbs more than the Amazon, and you have an electronicly injected 2.0 liter, and 4 huge discs to stop it. If it didn't have great handling characteristics it wouldn't STILL be a top contender in the ITB club racing class against BMW 2002's, GTI's, and whatnot.

As far as the collapsable stering column, only 122's '68 and up had them. Which is to say, not very many. Asumeing niether have any rust, the 122 is probably the stronger shell in a wreck, but not by much though. You'd have to get a PV before you got a really strong shell. After all, a PV got high marks on the 35 mph front end crash test, and it was designed 20 years before the test existed! But when comparing to most other things on the road, the 140 is an incredibly strong shell, most of it being put together with 18 gauge steel.

If you could figure out how to title it I have a PERFECT '71 144S shell you can have for cheap. I also could make you an aluminum skid plate for the 140 for about $150/$175. I need to check aluminum prices though. It's been a while since I made mine, using the volvo specs. Plus you can get nice progressive rate springs from www.v-performance.com. Oops, am I saying 'you'? I mean your friend...

As far as I'm concerned there aren't enough people into 140's. :) We currently have 4 on the road and another 3 alongside the shop. No, I'm not sick at all...


Nick Polimeni
www.odysseyhouseonline.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ah! Thanks for being an enabler. I spoke to that guy - John Parker? - at V Performance about a year and a half ago as I wanted good springs for the Amazon but roughly stock ride height and maybe proportionately a little stiffer in the back, but all aftermarket springs seem to be lowering springs. What we want, as you know, is highish AND stiffer. I talked to him a little about custom winds but we dropped off when I said I would get the rates off the sprigns we have on the car and I haven't visited those springs since. But in building a 140 this would be a major concern again. What do you do for springs?

Perhaps we whould talk about the 144 shell. I have a bit of a preference for a 2-door, but no perfect shell should remain undeveloped....

Skid plate sounds interesting too. Modeled off the R-sport one?

ACP

Flirting with the laws of physics.
 

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John Parker has springs for the 140 in stock hieght and stiffer, as well as ones that will lower it 1 to 2 inches. I figure even a rally 140 could get away with being lowered an inch, as it has about 8.5 inches of ground clearance stock. Terribly tall vehicles... But sway bars and spring keep that from being too much of a problem. As I havn't finished restoring my car yet, I can't tell you how the springs will work out. Gimme a month...

>
>Perhaps we whould talk about the 144 shell. I have a bit of
>a preference for a 2-door, but no perfect shell should
>remain undeveloped....

Dont we all? I had toyed with the idea of making the 4dr into another ITB car, but then, I have sooo many prodjects as it is... But I was going to paint it up yellow with a checker board running around it like a taxi... It has no front clip, that got robbed by a Volvo racer friend of mine who lives outside of NYC.

>
>Skid plate sounds interesting too. Modeled off the R-sport
>one?

Yup, took the measurments out of an old R-sport catalouge I have, and tweaked them a bit. It held up nicely when I smacked that dirt bank in Maine '99...ofcourse, the car didn't survive, but the skid plate is still here. Bent but here. The catalouge has a whole bunch of goodies in there that are no longer available. In the same binder I have a bunch of old homologation papers for 122/140's as well. The same ones I promised JV I'd scan in sometime last year and never got around to it due to a total existance failure of my scanner.

Nick Polimeni
www.odysseyhouseonline.com
 

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ACP - I have a 142E and I got it specificly for Rally - albeit as an organizer , it is our open car as well as my daily driver. 140 Rally stuff is easy. Use 164 Front springs and station wagon rear springs along with KYB shocks. This is what Topi put on the 144 I had and it worked great. Also the vented rotors from the 145 can be fitted to the front.Also if your Navie is tall they will actually fit in 140.
Now JV what do you have against refergerators on wheels , yes 544,122 and 1800 are better looking but at least in 140 you can see out the back. I recently sent some Datsun parts to Finland and buyer sent me pics of last event he raced in - 153 cars entered , 2 amazons and 8 140's.

Tom Grossmann
71 142E
 

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Good thing ACP can separate wheat from chaffe...

Volvo 140s are anything but the evil characters JV portrays them. Curb weight of 2,640 lbs. BEFORE you start to remove the solid-citizen-stuff makes them pretty competitive with everything else from that era. Four-wheel discs just need good friction materials and stainless lines to be very capable brakes. The number of them still successfully competing on road circuits is all you need to know about their handling.

B20 engines are 118 bhp with two factory carbs, much more in E configuration with injection. Insides swallow small block Chevrolet pistons like they were made for the engine, and cams, valves, springs and good pushrods are all available. Lots of available diff ratios (stock was 4:10), strong gearboxes... it's all there.

Don't be detered.
 

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Of course if the 122 were to be brought here to run SCCA Performance Rally, you'd need to fit a cat. You'd be importing the car in 2003 or 2004, and the 2004 rules specify that cars imported after 1980 have to have a functioning cat.

(So.....Siamese or Persian?)
 

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Use 164 Front springs
You might just take the trouble to measure wire diameter and count coils, if you do you might be very surprised, I know Iwas many years ago when I got the same advice but not from Topi but from his and my mutual friends back in Stockholm.


>and station wagon rear springs
Or Moog Load levellers.

along with KYB shocks.
Bring me a bucket, I'm gonna spew!!!!

This
>is what Topi put on the 144 I had and it worked great. Also
>the vented rotors from the 145 can be fitted to the
>front.Also if your Navie is tall they will actually fit in
>140.
> Now JV what do you have against refergerators on wheels ,

When you open the door, there is no frosty beer.If'n its gonna look like a sticnki' fredge, there should be beer in it.

>yes 544,122 and 1800 are better looking but at least in 140
>you can see out the back.
What the hell you looking out the back silly english knight?
You can see out the side window just fine in all of them.

I recently sent some Datsun parts
>to Finland and buyer sent me pics of last event he raced in
>- 153 cars entered , 2 amazons and 8 140's.
See comments about the demise due to popularity of many of the good 'uns.
You really think those Finns are in those Svensson Containers as a first choice`?
>
> Tom Grossmann
> 71 142E





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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John I'm not sure I get what you're saying - you don't like 140's or do you just have a thing against fridges??
Of course the 140 is big enough to fit a fridge in so you would always have a frosty one ready for end of days stages , or even better we could install a kegger in the trunk.
Jeez John first you say bad things about 140's next thing you will be bad mounthing Penton's !!!!!!

Tom
 

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> John I'm not sure I get what you're saying - you don't like
>140's or do you just have a thing against fridges??
I have nothing against fridges, I own one even, and I have owned 122, and 240s and driven tens of thousands of km in company 142s, 144s, 145s, and a few km in good ol' PVs.

What I am saying is that the nyah nyah nyah of obviously brand fixated 140 series owners about such absurd things as "yeah well they beating some other junk in some SCCA road racing is laughable, except they are serious.
Does anybody for half a second think what some aging amatures in some little pifddly little SCCa roadrace somewhere against some other aging amatures with unknown levels of preparation in some other cult car is proof of anything???

What did a specific car model do when the car's manufacturer or Motorsport department was serious about results and stepped up and entered a car IN THE SPORT WHICH WE*RE HERE TO DISCUSS: Gravel Rally.

PVs and Amazons made good results at the Highest level showing that the basic design is OK. I have looked hard for world level results for the 140 series in vain.
The 240 is an excellent chassi with good balance, and good steering, albeit slow, and a good head.
I mmean its kinda funny to see these guys all be such Brand-Hos, assuming that they know something I don't when I was driving and working on these cars 30 years ago ferchristsakes.
I say what I say because I KNOW the cars and have no dogma about any car.
If they all think the 140 series is good, then maybe that's all they know, not that they wrong, just perhaps not very informed or just fixated.


> Of course the 140 is big enough to fit a fridge in so you
>would always have a frosty one ready for end of days stages
I said the problem is it looks like a fridge, can you imagine arriving at registration and after unloading the thing to discover in horror that you loaded up the fridge and left the Volvo at home?


>, or even better we could install a kegger in the trunk.

Diamond Jim Breezeale, owner of the Original VW Jack-a-lope and brewmaster at Red Hook Brewery always had a keg flowing before the last car ,often him, was cooled down.
Since he loved the motor I made for him and he knew I never lock my doors often I would come home, open the Volvo door in the kitchen and there would be a fresh hafl gallon of some yummy beer.
> Jeez John first you say bad things about 140's next thing
>you will be bad mounthing Penton's !!!!!!
Well for me the first step up to making a living at moto-cross occured when I got onto my first KTM 250, on Dec 4, 1974.
I had been to an International in April 1972 in Rhenen, Holland and seen the KTM 250s kick and stop everybody in a 500 International with the then unknown Gennady Moiseev and Pavel Rulev and between then and 79 everybody acknowledged the production KTM 250 as the best motor in the world, and for me the way KTM was open with all possible information learned at the World level about 6-7 weeks after events sets ythe standards for Customer Support and spporting Attitude that I measure things by to this day.
And is why I have such utter and complete disgust and contempt for the Japanese approach to Bizness and Marketing.
I still reflect back to those years on KTM as special for me,a nd I know you said Penton and I know they were an enthusiastic gang of them out there in Ohio, but I didn't live here then so they are KTMs to me.
So no bad words from me on them.
>
> Tom





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 
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