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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just finished watching a program Tivo picked up on the Science Shannel called Ultimate Cars. This episode was listing their picks of the top 5 ultimate rally cars.

Here they are:

1 Audi Quattro
2 Lancia Stratos
3 Subaru Impreza Sti
4 Mitsu Lancer Evo
5 Ford RS200

Overall I dont agree with their list, but it was a cool show just for the sake of peaking my interest. I guessed 4 of the 5 on the list before hand, but not in this order. Buffum was interviewed and had some neat stuff to say, but the other "experts" were complete #####.

I'm sure it will be on again, so I'd say its worth watching if you missed it.
 

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Thanks for the heads up. It repeats at 11:00.
 

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Don't know if you've seen the "World's Greatest Rally Cars" DVD/video, David Sutton was telling me that they recently filmed an updated/newer version of it.

Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have not seen it. Do you own? I try to see any rally footage I can.
 

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RE:

Yeah, I'll bring it to work so you can watch it. It also has a friend of mine Tony Yendall who owns The Most Famous Rally Car in the World (LVX942J, winner of the 72 RAC).

Also, I have the Evolution of Rallying on video too. (that rocks)

One or both is PAL, so you'd have to watch them on a PC if you don't have a PAL/NTSC region-free DVD player.

Glenn

PS oh wait, I'm thinking rally video night!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RE:

It doesnt get much better than rally video night....name the time/date.
 

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World's Greatest Rally Cars

>Yeah, I'll bring it to work so you can watch it. It also has
>a friend of mine Tony Yendall who owns The Most Famous Rally
>Car in the World (LVX942J, winner of the 72 RAC).
>
>One or both is PAL, so you'd have to watch them on a PC if
>you don't have a PAL/NTSC region-free DVD player.

I have the World's Greatest Rally Cars video on NTSC DVD, if anyone wants to borrow it.

alan
 

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It's difficult to say which rally car is the ultimate. Although the Audi Quattro in my opinion is the toughest car the handling (to much understeer)is not as good as Evo and STI. The Group B have been the most impressive to watch and is more of a drivers car then the new generation.

Alan Musev
 

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1.Lancia 2. Pug 3. Rest

- I'd say Lancia by far... AUDI had most power but always a pig to turn. Remember Sweden? All three out in the same hairpin! And the POR - all Quattros through the same hole... Center diffs by Miller?

All time World Championships:

Lancia 10
Peugeot 6
Subaru 3
Toyota 3
Fiat 3
Audi 2
Ford 1
Citroen 1
Seat 1
Talbot 1
Renault 1
Mitsubishi 1

- It's amazing that Ford only has one championship! It's the most winning make overall if you include all rallies in the world. More amazing is it came with a private team; Team David Sutton with Ari Vatanen / Dave Richard.
 

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RE:

Claiming the Audi was the first turbocharged car seemed odd to me too. Perhaps they meant that the Audi was the first car to be homologated with a turbo?

A turbocharged version of the Lancia Stratos was in development as early as 1973 by Mike Parks. I think the first official use of one was in the 23'rd Tour De France (9/13/1974 to 9/21/74). Munari drove chassis TOL64134 entered as car number 136. It had a 24 valve turbo engine producing over 300 bhp. It retired from the event with engine failure. Andruet placed 3rd in that event with a non-turbo 24 valve car.

If you should catch the show, you might be interested to know that the Stratos they show in Rothman's livery is actually a replica. It looks like a Hawk Cars HF3000 to me. Look carefully when they show the engine compartment and you'll notice that it has a nice cast intake manifold for fuel injection instead of the 3 Webber carbs or 6 throttle body injectors a real one would have. Someone who knows their Italian engines might even recognize it as a Alfa Romeo/Lancia unit instead of the Ferrari. Not that this is a bad thing - just interesting. Unlike many replica cars, the Stratos replica owners are on very good terms with owners of the real cars. In fact, the old Stratos Replica Owners club was re-invented as the Stratos Enthusiasts Club (as interviewed in the show) so that we could all belong to one big group and hold events with both real and replica cars.

John B.


PS - I think the greatest rally car may be the Lancia Delta Integrale (6 World Championships) but the best car ever was probably the Group B Peugot 205.
 

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RE: 1.Lancia 2. Pug 3. Rest

Thank you Topi for once using correct grammar:-

<<< It's the most winning make >>>

Just where did that word "winningest" come from?

Jens, how come you've never picked up on this one before?


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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RE:

<<<< but the best car ever was probably the Group B Peugot 205. >>>>

I have to agree. The Peugeot 205 T16 has to be the most beautifully packaged short wheel base 4wd drive machine ever! Also liked the Renault 5 Turbo 2.


Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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RE:

Lancia had its run but it won the manufacturers title with different drivers each year, no? Makinen winning in the Lancer for several seasons in a row has to count for something! Granted, his last season with Mitsubishi wasn't so good but there was something about his ability to win rallies in the Lancer, kind of like Juha Kankunen's ability in the Toyotas or Colin's in Subarus, or Stig's in Fords. Sometimes there's some kind of connection between driver and car that makes certain combinations very difficult to beat. (Sorry for the lack of details but my reference books are out in the barn and it's getting late...)

George Thompson
1982 Volvo 242 Performance Rally Toy (still under repair)
1995 Honda XR600R Dual-Sport Motorcycle (MUCH cheaper than rallying SCCA-style!)
 

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RE: Two words for ya....

>Por....
>
>Sha!
>
>There is NO substitute!

Not actually a particularly successful marque in mainstream World rallying, although it did have its moments. This may have had more to do with the factory concentrating its efforts on more profitable/marketable forms of racing, though (like winning Le Mans 14? times since the WRC started).
 

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RE:

>It's difficult to say which rally car is the ultimate.
>Although the Audi Quattro in my opinion is the toughest car
>the handling (to much understeer)is not as good as Evo and
>STI. The Group B have been the most impressive to watch and
>is more of a drivers car then the new generation.
>
>Alan Musev


Hmmm - only 20 years worth of suspension and AWD development between the two. I'd expect any modern AWD to handle MUCH better than the Quattros did. Having watched the few Group B cars that made their way across the pond to the US - they were absolutely incredible to watch!

My votes for Best Rally Cars...

The "Real" Escorts 1600, 1800, 2000. :)

Lancia Stratos - the first purpose built rally car. There is also no arguing with the fact that Lancia was one of the most successful marques in Rallying - Fulvia, Stratos, Fiat 131 Abarth, 037, Delta S4, Integrale.

Renault A110 Alpine - I'm a Renault junky and the A110 was just plain beautiful. Love the R5 Turbo, but it was not the best rally car in my opinion (too short and twitchy - a real handful to drive, but damn it would go).

Audi Quattro - The original mega power to all the wheels beastie! And to answer the other argument on this thread, the Quattro was NOT the first Turbo, and it wasn't the first 4WD, but it was the first of the 4WD Turbos.

Ford RS200 - Too much, too late. If they had another year before Group B was banned, we would have seen some great things from this car.


BUT HEY THIS IS THE US FORUM :)

Dick Turner's Ford EXP - never seemed to run right, but when it did - HOLY $*%T Batman!

Rod Millen's RX-7 - The mighty morfin' RX-7. Rodney did everything possible to that beast to try to keep up with JB's Quattro. :p

John Buffum's TR-8 - Oh My God. The sound that that thing made coming through the woods at you was like nothing else you will EVER hear again.

Bruno Kreiblich's 911 - Squat and Go baby! May not have been the fastest, but it sure was pretty to watch. :7

Oh Yeah, Plymouth Arrows Rule! The thought of seeing Steve Nowicki out in the woods with an Arrow again sends shivers down my spine! The thought of getting my 79 Arrow back on the stages sends my wallet into shock. }>

Tim
 

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RE: Two words for ya....

Lets not also forget one of the most successful cars of all time the Lancia Delta ;-)


Speaking of the devil(s)...

There is a video found at www.rallivideo.com of some of the group B era cars such as the Audi,Peugeot,Lancia...

Just click on the picture under the counter on the right hand side...

Enjoy,
Oscar
 

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RE:

> <<<< but the best car ever was probably the Group B Peugot
>205. >>>>
>
>I have to agree. The Peugeot 205 T16 has to be the most
>beautifully packaged short wheel base 4wd drive machine
>ever! Also liked the Renault 5 Turbo 2.

Yeah an awesome short >>>2540mm<<<<< wheelbase.
Such a shame as just a few short years passes and nobody bothers to remember correct information.
>
>
And don't feel too bad Pete, people that never cared to measure their opinions against reality back when the cars were current used to repeat the same nonsense about the Pug being a short little car.

It well may have been nearly the longest except the Audi.






John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 
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