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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wow..... how much worse can it get?

- Ford probably pulling out. If not, there is enough uncertainty that they are probably losing their drivers, and a lot of their top engineers and mechanics are updating their resumes!

- Mitsubishi probably won't run a full season

- Skoda probably won't run a full season.

- Suzuki has said they will not jump from S1600 to WRC

So the WRC is left with ONLY 3 TEAMS: Citroen, Peugeot, Subaru
And only 2 drivers each! How exciting.

I guess this is the result of changing the rules all the time with little or no input from the stakeholders of the series.

Some food for thought anyway, on what the "top level" of a sport really means, or should be about, or should be controlled by.

WRC is almost... almost... as pointless and boring as F1 now.
Good job!

Skye

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I'm...so bor-or-ored with the W..R...C...
I'm...so bor-or-ored with the W..R...C...

I just got a dish so I could watch speed channel and stuff so I did get to catch the Rally GB. I hadn't seen a world rally in almost a year. I fell asleep very quickly. R S might as well have been reading me a bedtime story. It's like they took a great international dish and put nascar ketchup all over it. They should have Nick stay and bring back that guy who used to narrate in 2001. He was good.

The driving was great but the cars aren't at all interesting to me since they are all the same.

I have a copy of the 1995 season. I mostly just watch that and it is a blast. The cars slide and are quick. The Fords and Toyotas and Mitsus all look and sound different. It's like an untamed version of WRC.
 

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don't cut
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Carlos Sainz was bitching a while back on how the WRC cars are too easy to drive now, and how there is only one fast setup and everyone uses it. Fancy diffs mean sliding is slow, and everyone runs the same line to get out of the marbles. His solution: Ban electronic driver aids (mainly diffs), allow fitment of slightly wider tires, and go back to 38 or 40 mil restricters. It wouldn't make the cars faster or slower, but it would put the drivers back into the equation more so than they are now, and of course it would greatly reduce costs. SCCA, are you listening? Us silly 'mericans may not know anything about rally cars, but I think Carlos Sainz knows a thing or two.

Now, before JVL and the rest of GrF hooligans scream a collective "HAH, I told ya so!", Sainz ALSO said that young drivers today need more 4wd experience sooner, and recommended that aspiring WRC superstars spend more time in GrN cars than in S1600 or like.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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Suzuki Sport Director Nobuhiro ?Monster? Tajima said that World Rally Cars have become so advanced and so expensive that the current formula has become a deterrent to manufacturers thinking of getting involved. (...) He welcomed the idea of banning semi-automatic gearchanges and restricting active differentials.
(...)
?Hannu Mikkola is very good friend. In his time, is very simple: sound is OK, action is OK, cost is not so huge. The driver can win. Now is like a computer game,? he added.

Carlos has said the same basic thing.

Jake the best rally videos IMO are 1981 RAC, 1997 BRC, 1986 GpB Finland!

The 1981 RAC was fun as they had Escorts, Talbots, Colt Lancers, Celicas, TR8's, RX7's, Nissans, R5's, Vaulxals, Asconas, 911's, Lancia Stratos, Rovers and 2 Quattros. Other than the Quattro everthing was 2wd and all but 2 non turbo'ed. 14 Makes all setting top times, most makes had 2 cars on the team some had 3 cars, something like 30 top drivers mixing it up. OK Mikkola in the quattro ran away with the event but the rest was close.

Derek
 

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>Now, before JVL and the rest of GrF hooligans scream a
>collective "HAH, I told ya so!", Sainz ALSO said that young
>drivers today need more 4wd experience sooner, and
>recommended that aspiring WRC superstars spend more time in
>GrN cars than in S1600 or like.
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845

HA!!!

I just can't afford that 4wd experience. I wish I could. With that kind of money, instead of getting something real expensive I could spend maybe 5 or 10 large to make a RWD real fun Group F car and take the rest of the money and go rallying more. But I don't have the money.

It is kind of cool to have my current car almost as developed as it is ever going to get. Now I can work on what matters most. Driving, and there is lots of work to do.
 

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You guys are brutal..is nothing ever good enough for the rally community?? Your right WRC might not be as good as it was but look at our coverage. I would rather watch WRC than anything else, good or bad.
 

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Since i have a recent copy of ISC's televisions numbers I would venture to say that while you may find it boring the rest of the world does not share your opinion. It is easy to wax poetically about how "it was so good when ........." but I imagine that there were just as many complainers then talking about how they "missed ........". Hey maybe group F is the answer you better go call up dave richards and sell him on the idea of running 20 year old cars would be soooo much better.

1. Semi-Auto boxes are expensive to develop but cheap to run since it takes out the driver in the equation. For the same reason that F1 did not change to manual gear changes. It is cheaper because they have fewer failures.

2. Active diffs could be eliminated and lower cost it would be much cheaper to run.

3. Group A should be brought back, people love homologation specials and that is what fostered the cult status of the Escort Cossie, Impreza, and Lancer as well as the Lancia and Audis. No more taking a FWD crap box and converting it, the yshould have to make minimum 1000 road going versions that could be homologated as a group n car adn a group a car. I think that more than a few people here would line up to buy a AWD turbo 206 or maybe a Fabia. Manufacturers sell cars that are similar to homologation specials just by trading on the name ( here in socla a ton of people buy the basic crappy lancer) so it might make economic sense.

The allure of rallying has always been that htey are similar to the road car and that is what sells cars. IF you don't believe me look at all the WRX and Lancer buyers that are crashing into everything left and right trying ot immitate Tommi or Mcrae
 

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SURF!!! I'll cover you myself!
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>Carlos Sainz was bitching a while back on how the WRC cars
>are too easy to drive now, and how there is only one fast
>setup and everyone uses it. Fancy diffs mean sliding is
>slow, and everyone runs the same line to get out of the
>marbles. His solution: Ban electronic driver aids (mainly
>diffs), allow fitment of slightly wider tires, and go back
>to 38 or 40 mil restricters. It wouldn't make the cars
>faster or slower, but it would put the drivers back into the
>equation more so than they are now, and of course it would
>greatly reduce costs. SCCA, are you listening? Us silly
>'mericans may not know anything about rally cars, but I
>think Carlos Sainz knows a thing or two.

Give them locked center diffs, that should make things interesting.
Because it's racing, progression = success. Every once in a while we need to hit the re-set button to bring things back to reality. I think the technology is awesome, and it does make it onto cars within just a few years. But, the bottom line is it has to be a show, and people must be motivated to watch it.

Remember, the WRC formula was started to allow any manufacturer to build a good rally car from a POS econobox. Now they are over-the-top quick and the technology has become buget based.

I'm thankful nobody's been hurt, yet.



>
>Now, before JVL and the rest of GrF hooligans scream a
>collective "HAH, I told ya so!", Sainz ALSO said that young
>drivers today need more 4wd experience sooner, and
>recommended that aspiring WRC superstars spend more time in
>GrN cars than in S1600 or like.


Hooligans? You mean "disciples".


Peter
 

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>Since i have a recent copy of ISC's televisions numbers I
>would venture to say that while you may find it boring the
>rest of the world does not share your opinion.

No problem. That's good if people still like it. I just think it's turned into a total snoozer compared to when the cars all were a bit different. I'd probably love going to see a round in the flesh but the TV program is a little too She-heened up.


Hey maybe group F
>is the answer you better go call up dave richards and sell
>him on the idea of running 20 year old cars would be soooo
>much better.

It probably would. There would be more than 6 guys driving for WRC manufacturer next year. But then I would rather watch old BRC than current WRC, unless I feel like a nap. Somehow I doubt Dave would care.

>
>1. Semi-Auto boxes are expensive to develop but cheap to run
>since it takes out the driver in the equation.

I kind of like the driving variable but I can see the teams need for more speed. Too bad about those drivers being taken out of the equation though, they were the best part.

>3. Group A should be brought back, people love homologation
>specials and that is what fostered the cult status of the
>Escort Cossie, Impreza, and Lancer as well as the Lancia and
>Audis. No more taking a FWD crap box and converting it, the
>yshould have to make minimum 1000 road going versions that
>could be homologated as a group n car adn a group a car. I
>think that more than a few people here would line up to buy
>a AWD turbo 206 or maybe a Fabia. Manufacturers sell cars
>that are similar to homologation specials just by trading on
>the name ( here in socla a ton of people buy the basic
>crappy lancer) so it might make economic sense.



>
>The allure of rallying has always been that htey are similar
>to the road car and that is what sells cars. IF you don't
>believe me look at all the WRX and Lancer buyers that are
>crashing into everything left and right trying ot immitate
>Tommi or Mcrae

That is pretty funny. I guess it's a rite of passage. I think I have made that passage about 7 or 8 times, in my Brat.
 

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don't cut
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>
>Remember, the WRC formula was started to allow any
>manufacturer to build a good rally car from a POS econobox.
>Now they are over-the-top quick and the technology has
>become buget based.
>

You bring up an interesting flip side to the argument. One of the reasons people like rally is the technology involved, and the wide number of vehicles available. If we cap technology, or return to older style GrA homolagations, we are starting down the NASCAR path (never change 'nuthin). Goofy as it sounds, I like to think that rally racing has made positive contribution to society in the form of safer and more efficient vehicles. What do we get out of NASCAR other than some burnt up tires and a hangeover?



>
>Hooligans? You mean "disciples".
>
>
>Peter

No, I meant Hooligans! }>

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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*snif*...brings a tear to m'eye. I feel so honored! I've considered myself a hooligan most of my life. I'm so happy others see me in my true image.

Eric "Hooligan for Life" Burmeister

ps...just bought me a Hooligan bike. KTM 520...like the one I rode at STPR...except getting both sets of wheels, supermotard (stickies) and mx knobs. Going to my first track day at Barbour Motorsports Park in a week or so to beat up on some sport bikes.

Motorcycles are a lot cheaper than even GpF. Rally is just about beyond its cost/benefit ratio...at least below the Canadian border. Better pay my health insurance back up, back to 2 wheels I go...for a while at least.
 

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>Rally is just about beyond its cost/benefit ratio...at least below the
>Canadian border.

Then come North - into the Great White Light!
Plus our beer is way better:+
 

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>
>No, I meant Hooligans! }>

Is that Finnish? What does that mean?

Hey I just read in the POR sups that practice stage rides are $10 bucks. Yippee. You still gonna take me for a spin? I'd love to go as long as your car only looks like McDonalds and doesn't actually smell like it :)
 

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don't cut
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>
>
>>
>>No, I meant Hooligans! }>
>
>Is that Finnish? What does that mean?

Look it up in the dictionary. There's probably a picture of you or me next to it.

>
>Hey I just read in the POR sups that practice stage rides
>are $10 bucks. Yippee. You still gonna take me for a spin?
> I'd love to go as long as your car only looks like
>McDonalds and doesn't actually smell like it :)

Like I said earlier, can you afford it? Not the ten bucks, but a Lancer, cuz one ride you'll be addicted, just like crack cocaine. We'll be seeing the Hime's children for sale on ebay!

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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>>Rally is just about beyond its cost/benefit ratio...at least below the
>>Canadian border.
>
>Then come North - into the Great White Light!
>Plus our beer is way better:+

I plan to crew for my dad at Tall Pines. He just saw the entry fee for LSPR club and decided to go to Canada, eh, instead.

I know, I know. Its aboot time.;)
 

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> I guess this is the result of changing the rules all the time with little or no input from the stakeholders of the series.

No, it is the result of Mitsubishi being almost kaput and Ford being very short of money. I also hear the purse strings at Subaru are getting tighter.
 

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>Now, before JVL and the rest of GrF hooligans scream a
>collective "HAH, I told ya so!", Sainz ALSO said that young
>drivers today need more 4wd experience sooner, and
>recommended that aspiring WRC superstars spend more time in
>GrN cars than in S1600 or like.

Carlos has always been one of my favorites and I think he knows his stuff but... Sebastian Loeb kicked some ass in a jwrc saxo and presently practicly no one can touch him.
 

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>Carlos has always been one of my favorites and I think he
>knows his stuff but... Sebastian Loeb kicked some ass in a
>jwrc saxo and presently practicly no one can touch him.

Very good point. What awd experience did Loeb have before the WRC?

Will MacDonald
1968 Volvo 144
 
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