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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, my driver and I were going over the latest rules changes for Club/Pro Rally and the new changes in the first-aid kits kind of got my attention. According to the new changes, they are specifying what should be included in the first-aid kit. Some of it is good, but a few things kind of made me go "huh?" The primary thing that made me go "what the hell?" was the OPA.

Oral-paryngeal airway (OPA)

This device, for people that don't know, is to try to keep the airway open by essentially shoving a tube down a person's throat. What made me go "huh?" with this one is that this takes special training that you do _NOT_ get in first-aid or CPR. Hell, I have advanced first-aid, AED, and other life-saving training and I don't know how to use this device. As is quoted from aquaweb:

[HR]

3.3.3 Oropharyngeal Airways (OPA)

An OPA is a device that can be inserted into the mouth of an unconscious person and is used to keep the tongue off of the back of the throat which helps to keep the airway open. Once the device is inserted in the person, you can use a resuscitation mask, bag-valve-mask, etc. to ventilate a non-breathing person. If the OPA is placed improperly, it can compress the tongue to the back of the throat and close the airway. It is vital to note that these devices do NOT guarantee that the persons airway will remain open due to the possibility of aspiration. They come in a variety of sizes for different causalities. Special training is required to use these devices

[HR]

What in the name of whatever god/goddess/person/thing that you believe in was the SCCA thinking? This is a _FIRST-AID_ kit, not a trauma kit. My only guess here is that the kit would be there when the EMTs arrived on the scene... which, IMNSHO, would make me think the EMTs don't have all the supplies that they should. In addition, if a person isn't trained in using the OPA, I sure as hell do _NOT_ want someone untrained shoving a tube down my throat. If this is done wrong, more seriously injury could be caused.

So, now that I'm done ranting, anyone know of a place where I can pick up an OPA? (ok, actually two) I'll be contacting a vendor in the morning and see if they have a suggestion, but I'd like to see if anyone here has a particular place in mind.

Melody Yoon
Co-Driver Car # 334
Amateur Radio Operator, KF6RMW
ARES/RACES
First-Aid, CPR, AED (Automatic External Defibrilator), light USAR (urban search and rescue), emergency childbirth trained all around pain-in-the-ass
 

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For what it's worth, this takes some skill and fore-knowledge.

I had emergency gall bladder surgery. The operation took 3 hours. It took the doctor working on intubating me ONE AND A HALF HOURS. One of those things peculiar about my throat. And that was in a full scale opearting room, not in the forest.

I also have sleep apnea, so being unconscious is very negative. And my nose only partially works. Breathing is high on my list.

It'd be a tough choice if I had to choose between untrained person with the gear vs a trained person without one. But then I wouldn't get to choose.

Tony
 

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straight at T
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>Can you point me to where this is stated? If this is true,
>it seems that SCCA has their heads up their *$$^$ again.

It's in the October Fastrack on the SCCA website. The rules changes are an appendix to the BoD meeting minutes. Interestingly there is no effective date specified anywhere, so the theoretically are effective Oct 1 (although I'm sure they were intended to be effective Jan 1).

Adrian
 

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The manufacturers of this device are potential sponsors and the SCCA is just looking after them..............:p

But on a serious note anyone with minimal knowledge in medicine and mechanics will be ingenious enough to know that a fish hook, three foot of line and a screwdriver will do the same job!!!!


Instructions:

Insert hook through tongue, pull tongue out till toes curl to a 45 degree angle and press down on tongue with screwdriver till you can see the light of day (driving suit may have to be removed). Use caution removing the suit, there maybe soiling!!!

The benefit of this technique is that the patient has a nice hole in the tongue and upon certain recovery will be able to insert a stud as a reminder of this life saving event. (You can charge for this piercing service)

Sorry to make humor of this serious matter but sometimes when edicts like this are issued, if you don't laugh, you'll cry!!!!!

It is just an attempt by Denver to drive the riff-raff away from the sport and replace them with wealthy jet-setting Beverly Hills Doctors who can meet future medical requirements for competitors......:+

I'll sell these new kits. Fish Hooks (in four sizes)
Nylon Line (I'll throw in a whole reel)
Screw Driver (slightly used)
Rubber Gloves (for removing the suit)
Clothes Peg (for nose, just in case)
A set of Ginzu knives (to fight off
wild animals attracted by the scent
of blood).
Jim Nabors Greatest Hits (I have some
left from my last venture).

All this for the one time price of $19.99 plus postage and shipping

This offer isn't available in stores!!!!! (But SCCA will sell them for $99.99!!!!!!!!
 

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Did anyone ever think...

Why all the disgust over having to carry specific medical equipment? If this is a very complex device that requires training, I'm sure there will be some sort of education process in place to ensure proper use.

Also, who is to say that you have to use the device. Could it not also be used by someone that is spectating that has proper training? It's kind of like how Jon and I carry some tools in the car. We have no idea how to use them, but if we break down, I'm sure a spectator does. ;-)
 

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just another old phart
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RE: Did anyone ever think...

Besides it might have other more practical uses. At Magnum Opus this weekend Al Kintigh broke a radiator hose and had to splice it with a socket. If he had one of these devices on board it sounds like maybe he could have used that instead. :p

Kent Gardam
 

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RE: Did anyone ever think...

Daphne hit the nail on the head. Many of these things are specified for the kit to make sure they're available no matter who responds to an incident. If you're not trained to use them, don't. Personally, I believe one of those plastic "mask" gadgets you learn to use in CPR class would be useful, too.

Certainly this kit has more potentially useful emergency stuff than the present band-aid-and-hand-cleaner kit.

Bruce
 

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RE: Did anyone ever think...

We did rip apart the current medical kit to see if there was anything we could use to splice the hose real quick. The tape we had melted right away and wasn't usable and the bandaids were not big enough to cover the hole in the hose ;-).
-al
 

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RE: Did anyone ever think...

I have been practicing pre-hospital medicine for a little over 15 years now...so I guess I have some knowledge on this subject (we can only hope). The question you need to ask yourself is..Can I really help someone that is in need of medical care? Some people just don't have the stomach for this. I don't know how many times I have been out with friends and have just shown up on someone that is injured and everyone is standing around just watching...but there always seems to be that one guy/gal that has a 1st aid kit, half the time they don't know 1/2 the stuff they have in there, but chances are someone does and its there.
Now is an OPA unrealistic...it depends...How involved do you want to get??? Can you do CPR if you had to?? Do you know what to do if you see someone bleeding profusly?? If not...chances are someone around you does, and you can at a minimum, offer a basic 1st kit to aid them. I strongly urge everyone that gets a chance in life, to take a basic 1st aid class. The SCCA should not be critisized for there quest to make this sport safer...I applaud them for there efforts and look forward to seeing this program get a warm welcome. If and when there 1st aid classes are offered at events, you will learn what an OPA is, and when and how it is used...It can be a life saver.

-greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
RE: Did anyone ever think...

Greg, my problem with this is that if they want to specify what goes into the kit, why the abbreviated list? For example, the OPA. I can use it for multiple issues. As a breathing aparatus, as a chest tube, etc. However, by the time the EMTs get there, will it be useful? If they are specifying the OPA, then why not specify that an AED needs to be on board also?

I think what the SCCA has gotten away from is that this is to be a first-aid kit, for first responders. Not a trauma kit, not a field hospital. It seems that they want to do better, and personally I think that's great. But it seems have the time they half-ass it. Hell, CPR and first-aid is still _NOT_ a requirement, just a recommendation.

Melody Yoon
Co-Driver Car # 334
Amateur Radio Operator, KF6RMW
 

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just another old phart
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RE: Did anyone ever think...

This isn't quite so random or head-up-the-nether as you might think. After the 100AW accident last year a couple of us got talking off-list about the current state of medical kits and knowledge amongst rallyists, both of which are pretty abysmal. Note that in Canada at registration for every event you are required to prove you've taken a first aid course within the last three years (I think).

A couple of medics in the small group began discussing what ought to be in a proper rally med kit, with an eye to having a standard-issue kit that could bolt/tie to the cage and that everyone would understand, possibly with some shorthand instructions inside about how to use certain tools.

The standard kit does not appear to have come to fruition. But one of the proposed contents was an OPA. We talked a lot about broken necks and a little about insect bites.

As far as I'm concerned, if my airway is blocked I'd rather have some other hamfist with a helmet on trying to jam a tube down my throat inexpertly than, well, die.

ACP
www.musketeerracing.com
Flirting with the laws and medics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
RE: Did anyone ever think...

The question is, are you sure? Do you want someone that is untrained trying to ventilate you? Honestly, I would have as much of an issue with this _IF_ the SCCA required training. However, as it is, they do not.

The problem with the OPA is that it requires special training not given in a first-aid, CPR, nor an AED class. This means that for rallyists to gain the training to use an OPA, they'd have to take a seperate class in addition to the standard first-aid and CPR. Plus, in order to be truely proficient with the device, they would need to retrain often.

One thing I honestly like about being AED certified (versus just being trained) is that the State of California requires me to recertify every 3 months. So every 3 months, we go over CPR and AED usage and come up with scenarios. Honestly, the AED isn't a difficult device to use, in fact it's quite simplistic. But, the recertification lets me hone my CPR skills, which I find invaluable.

Melody Yoon
Co-Driver Car # 334
Amateur Radio Operator, KF6RMW
 

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RE: Did anyone ever think...

the kit you all are wining about was developed by a doctor and our safety steward. we will all be taking classes at rallies in the future.
Lets take it on faith that doc knows what he is doing here.
 

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RE: Did anyone ever think...

Greg, you make some great points, but I concur with Melody. Requiring equipment that is beyond skills taught in a First Aid/CPR class seems an over step. A better step to improve safety is to require first aid/CPR classes for all competitors, rather than a device requiring specialized training. Making this device a highly recommended item would have been more appropriate.

BTW penny snips are a great item! They can cut through clothing and thin metal!

The biggest problem I have now is carrying my advanced first aid kit in my carry-on luggage. Seccurity doesn't like the scissors. Even though I am sure the first aid kit on the plane probably has scissors.

Paul Nelson
 

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RE: Did anyone ever think...

>The question is, are you sure?

Versus dying of asphyxiation? Yes, I'm sure.

However on the more subtle question of judging when use of the OPA is necessary, where an unconscious person is not breathing, then you have a point. The first-response caregiver will have to decide whether the airway is blocked, and whether it can be unblocked without use of the OPA, which is invasive and does carry risks.

So it comes to this: carrying the OPA implies that training be required.

And so the debate shifts: American rallyists should be required to have first aid training, and possibly first aid training with advice on how to use an OPA.

ACP - for EMT and OPA. Brought to you by CARS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
RE: Did anyone ever think...

Andrew, I agree with you. Dying of asphyxiation would kind of suck. :) It's great that Steve says there will be training in the future. Great. We have training, but it doesn't answer:

1. Is the training going to certify you to use the OPA? Or do we need to find a way to take an ACLS class (or something similar).
2. Is the training going to embody all current regulations for all states? Each state has it's own regulations.
3. There is a third question but I just can't think of it at the moment.

I know I don't have all the answers. No one does. But it would be nice to see where the SCCA is wanting to take this.

Melody Yoon
Co-Driver Car # 334
Amateur Radio Operator, KF6RMW
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
RE: Did anyone ever think...

>The biggest problem I have now is carrying my advanced first
>aid kit in my carry-on luggage. Seccurity doesn't like the
>scissors. Even though I am sure the first aid kit on the
>plane probably has scissors.
>
>Paul Nelson

Paul, security usually has issues with knives I put in the kit. I used to have a spyderco rescuer in a kit as a general purpose knife since it has a serrated blade and is extremely sharp. It can go through seat belt webbing in a snap :) But, I can just imagine the brouhaha I'd get now. :)

Melody Yoon
Co-Driver Car # 334
Amateur Radio Operator, KF6RMW
 
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