[Eric_Anderson]

There are exploratory moves under way to bring back Sunriser.

Central Ohio Rally Club has posted a web page trying judge interest, first as a TSD event this fall and then migrating to a stage event sometime thereafter, possibly as an all-paved USAC event.

http://www.corc-rally.org/pages/events/Ohio_Forest/ohio_forest_rally.htm

Newcomers might not remember Sunriser, as it last ran six or seven years ago. Sunriser played a significant role in the founding of the Pro Series. Jack Lally of the Columbus Rally Club and Bob Hourihan of Rallyigators created a Summer Stump Thumper trophy in 1970 for the Sunriser and the Moonlight Monte. Partially as the result that effort, the MG Car Club of Cleveland organized MONY Series, which essentially became the Pro Rally Series.

If you've never been through the forests of south-central Ohio, they contain some of the best stage roads around. Even as a TSD, they're great.

If you have any interest in seeing Sunriser come back, it might be a good idea to let CORC know...

 

[joeg]

Yes...those roads were about the best anywhere.

Why USAC?

 

[CJPUTZIER]

Will it have that great railroad jump still. It was the best.}>

 

[Don Kennedy]

possibly as an
>all-paved USAC event.
>
So what good is it to have some of the best stage roads if this is the end result?

 

[Eric_Anderson]

> possibly as an
>>all-paved USAC event.
>>
>So what good is it to have some of the best stage roads if
>this is the end result?



I'm only reported what's on the website, so anything I say is pure conjecture.

As to all-paved, many of the forest roads have been paved in two of the most likely forests to be used (Scioto Trail and Tar Hollow).

As to USAC vs SCCA, there are probably a couple of factors:

Ohio Valley Region SCCA is extremely involved with Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course, so it's not as though there is likely to be a lot of local SCCA help.

The site mentions an FIA sanction and in terms of promotional possibilities in Central Ohio, an FIA sanction would carry a lot more weight than an SCCA sanction.

As an aside, and as a purely personal observation based on several decades of market-research experience, despite 30 years of history, the phrase "Pro Rally" has minimal brand equity in motorsports, and absolutely no brand equity to the average person.

Columbus desperately wants to be known as a world-class city, and it would be significantly easier to sell and promote a internationally sanctioned rally even if that phrase only means its listed on a calendar someplace.

Given that Columbus is the headquarters of Victoria's Secret, the "Victoria's Secret Sunriser Rally" has a certain ring to it (and secondary meaning), especially if there are Victoria's Secret models working the start and finish controls. We could only hope.

 

[joeg]

Good points, Eric...but all the Sunrisers I ran were based in Chilicothe, OH.

 

[Paul Jaeger]

I would love to see Sunriser back. For those who can't envision an all paved stage rally based out of Columbus, think about Cherokee Trails. That rally starts in a major city with a long transit to the stages. The start would be in Columbus with hopefully a stage or two in Columbus (on the State Fairgrounds Property?). Then a transit to the Chillocothe area with stages in Scioto Trail and Tar Hollow forests. The last few Sunrisers ran several paved stages in Tar Hollow. The roads are VERY Challenging. Maybe the rally could also run the paved stage in Yoctangee Park in Chillicothe.

Just my ideas. I am not part of the committee, but probably will get involved.


Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

 

[Eric_Anderson]

>Good points, Eric...but all the Sunrisers I ran were based
>in Chilicothe, OH.


You probably missed this sentence...


"Our preliminary thought for the rejuvenated Sunriser would be a Columbus Start / Headquarters, with each day of competition being focused upon one or two of the forests, including some surrounding township roads."

 

[wahl]

Ok here's a couple short sweet answers:

Why USAC? Because Paddock is still involved and the local SCCA region and he have never gotten along. Those that have been around may
recall the local region was not the sanctioning region.

Why paved roads? Because many (but not all) of the roads we ran
have been developed over. ie: paved. Columbus is suffering
from horrible urban sprawl without limits. Luckily this
is far enough south to avoid the worst of it.

Plus the locality has mixed feelings about having us back.
Nuf' said. Ask a historian, not me.

I've spoken with local corc and scca folks for the last couple of
years about a club event in this area, or out of Wheeling, WV.
Development is the problem. No one has the slightest interest
(including myself) of a national or Pro level event.

It is possible a club level event may run in a couple of years.
There are a few of us intested in running it as an SCCA event.
Little has been done besides trying to find new unpaved roads
and places to base out of that we wouldn't overfill room space.
(hence the look into WV) We've also reached out to the local HAM clubs, but mostly because we are members.

Ed

 

[mgpsmith]

>
>Plus the locality has mixed feelings about having us back.
>Nuf' said. Ask a historian, not me.
>
>

Two years with gunfire -including one incident with high-powered weaponry- by the locals at Wildcat (TSD at Shawnee state forest, the next one south of Zaleski) speaks volumes about the locals' mixed feelings.

 

[jblewis]

Having been on the business end of a shotgun in that vicinity, I can tell you that many of the locals don't dislike the rally, they just dislike anything they don't know about. Changing their mind once the rally has started is hopeless.

Many of them are type who have their last seven automobiles parked behind the double wide they bought when the original homestead farmhouse fell down.

many of them feel that the road that runs past their farm is their road, as in "they own it", not that the road is the county's.

Now, granted, my experience was in Coshocton County, at a checkpoint of a brisk TSD event. But still....

I think it's going to take convincing the local government that the financial impact is worth it, and it is going to take a lot of leg work to get the locals informed. Township planning commisions, county government, the forest officials, Chambers of commerce, every one.

JB

 

[Paul Jaeger]

One advantage of a stage rally in alerting locals and avoiding shotguns is the road permit process. This process puts the law enforcement community on your side and serves to inform the locals about the rally. I know that in past Sunrisers which used local township roads, every homeowner was contacted and signed a waiver. Transits between stages still can cause problems. I think that with more rallies running in daylight and not disturbing the locals sleep, these problems will be reduced.

Unfortunately, many fast TSD rallies still try to avoid local problems by running at night and hoping the rally cars are by the houses before the locals can put on their pants and load the shotgun!

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

 

[sunriser400]

RE: the return of sunriser? - From the horses mouth

I regret that I've not spent much time watching for interesting stuff on SpecialStage for a while, but had someone visit the CORC site a fire me an email that I might want to see what's being said about Sunriser..

SO - Here is what is real, and what is "maybe" from Dick Paddock:

First, the Sunriser and Tulip events were put to bed about 6 years ago when we ran into problems with our relationship with SCCA, and also found ourselves fighting some local bad PR due in part to the Fatal that occurred in Vinton County(service crew hit local while left of center), but more significantly our inability to keep service crews and competitors from speeding on transits. We'd promised the Ohio Highway Patrol & Sheriffs that we would immediately exclude anyone they reported to HQ for speeding or a moving violation - by the competitor or their service crew.

In 1995-1996 we had significant problems with SCCA in enforcing this, and to be honest I could not, in good faith, tell the OSHP Major that things would improve. (Particularly difficult since I worked for the Ohio Department of Public Safety and saw these guys pretty regularly as part of my State job.)

So - having run into those snags, we tried a Divisional event to try to regroup and got 4 entries. With a $20,000 road bond / fee to pay that didn¡¦t work so the 1997 event was canceled and we all went off to raise kids, and other similar stuff.

So - Now its a few years later, I've retired and have my own company doing traffic safety stuff and am at a point of having some extra time on my hands. Last December my wife Tammy (medical coordinators for Sunrisers) and I went out to Laughlin so see what the story was on the new USAC Series - largely because I don¡¦t think that SCCA would EVER support another Sunriser / Tulip event no matter how much we paid them.

We were very impressed with the USAC commitment to the new series, and were treated VERY well. (BTW - How many of you remember PROS - PRO Rally Organizer's Society - and the meeting we had with USAC about an alternative to SCCA in the 80's). At any rate, I came back from NV with a bug to see what I could do about re-organizing Sunriser. I'd received some informal support for the idea of a 100% paved event, as I was given the impression that a mixed event like the old Sunrisers would be a problem.

WHERE IT IS:

Today Tammy & I spent the day driving the old stage roads iN tar Hollow and Scioto Trail. Although I'd been told there was a lot of new asphalt, there was actually very little new pavement. We think we have a good TSD event to be run under the CORC banner on October 18 that will follow what "might" be the route of the first day of as future stage event. (four legs of about 50 miles each out of a Chillicothe setvice area with about 20 miles of stages in each).

The CORC event will be a basic mileage-tulip SLOW TSD (remember the speed limit in the forests is 20-30 MPH) but will go over the roads and allow me to get a feel for some of the local attitudes about bringing Sunriser back. Check out the Central Ohio Rally Club site (www.corc-rally.org) later this week for more information on the TSD event.

WHAT MIGHT BE:

I place the following after a very big, bold "IF"...

Given that ther were a mechanism that would allow us to put on a shorter event like the above route to try to get a committee working again, train some new people, and begin re-builing the local political subdivision support-

And Given that I can get a few people to com out of retirement and / or find replacements for the missing slots -

And Given that OHIO DNR will allow us back in without ALL the old restrictions (maching local road milage, no gravel twice, etc.) -

And Given that my company stays healthy so we can afford to subsidize the event until there is income to start a bank account -

Then you might see the re-birth of Sunriser in a year or so.

I plan to be at Cherokee Trails during the week (probably not Sat) to feel out the possibilities of working with them on insurance / sanction, etc. for a 'breeder event'. We'll see what the next few weeks yield.

If you would like to offer comments directly, feel free to email me at [email protected]. I'll be trying to get the old Sunriser web populated with some basic information and a comment form over the next couple weeks at www.tsass.com/sunriser400.

Thanks for all the well-wishes I've gotten since Eric started this thread.

Dick Paddock