[John Vanlandingham]

So are you feeling like this is the fate of us who are rallyists?
[http://faculty.evansville.edu/rl29/art105/img/gericault_medusa.jpg]



Maybe, maybe not>
I'm not attacking Doug Havir or his Rally America, but what have I missed in the seeming rush to make Rally America the New Messiah, or Doug the new Bernardo O'Higgins of American rally.

The expertise in organising, and running rallies , of building and running cars, in dealing with the permitting processes with various guberm'nt agencies, rounding up and corralling unruly volunteers, teching cars at events and the lately too often needed ajudication of disputes lies in the hands and minds of all you guys out there who are already doing this, and many of you guys out there have been doing this for more than 20 years.

So while I can see and welcome Rally America stepping in to assist with routine administative functions, like mailing licences and rule books, I think this is an excellent time to broaden and democratize they way the sport is GUIDED and RUN.

Hasn't the preceeding years of inexperienced one man rule been reason enough to be wary of simplistic "Hero' mentality?
Is this what we really need?
[http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/634bg.jpg]

Want some suggestions?
Maybe this is what we need:
[http://faculty.evansville.edu/rl29/art105/img/delacroix_liberty.jpg]

And for you pervs with minds in the sewer I wasn't suggesting we need more women in the woods with loose tops, although now that you did suggest it I think it is a GOOD idea!


John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!

 

[Widget Codriver]

Victory Guiding the People

That last image, Delacroix's "La Liberté guidant le peuple," seems appropriate now. We have been liberated (albeit with neither malice nor riot), but the harder work now begins.

http://www.strasbourg.fr/NR/rdonlyres/795FAF7B-9C26-4D5B-97F1-7DE2FFC27223/2425/img_delacroix.jpg

http://www.strasbourg.fr/Strasbourgfr/GB/Phantom/delacroix.htm

[hr]

[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com

 

[Flooredsubaru]

RE: Victory Guiding the People

I for one... Would like to see who ever runs the new system to have a voting system to deside on rules and classes.

Not just a bunch of people in some board room.

I dont see a problem with one person in comand as long as there is a large group making the changes.

Erik Schmidt

 

[eolson]

RE: Victory Guiding the People

Although I am relativley new to the sport (have been a fan for a long time but only started competing this year) I would like to build on Erik's idea as I think he is on to something. We could set up a "board of directors" possibly elected by the US rally community to serve along side the "CEO." If that works out we could also set it up so each rally community member (licensed driver & co-drivers/workers and organizers) could have one vote in any large decision of the same weight as everyone else and the Board could almost serve as an electoral college of sorts and represent certain sectors of the country. Just and idea. I have a strong business background and would be happy to help organize this if we implimented it. I am also available to lend my services to help out US rally whichever way it continues so feel free to contact me (ericjohnolson AT comcast DOT net). Thanks everyone!

 

[RallyKeith]

RE: Victory Guiding the People

>I for one... Would like to see who ever runs the new system
>to have a voting system to deside on rules and classes.
>
>Not just a bunch of people in some board room.
>
>I dont see a problem with one person in comand as long as
>there is a large group making the changes.
>
>Erik Schmidt

I agree, and I am willing to function in anyway that I can in the Northeast to support Rally America. Whatever I can do, whatever they want to know.

Keith

 

[dch]

RE: The expertise...

Hello John & folks,

Sorry to be conspicuously absent as of late, but as you might imagine not only is my plate full but the refridgerator runneth over as well. I by no means meant to offend anybody by posting on NASIOC as opposed to SS, but that was the first place I saw the need to step in due to the topic titled "SCCA kills rally program". I need to concentrate on my "to do" list but I wanted to weigh in here while I had a moment.

Despite a number of people cheering for "me" and what "I'm" trying to do, don't let them persuade you for a second that I think I can take care of everything on my own. A very basic business lesson that's critical to success is to make sure you surround yourself with good people capable of making the right decisions. My job will basically be to make sure I have access to those people, and to bless their decisions with large checks.

Collectively, Rally America has more resources, both monetarily and personnel-wise, than the SCCA had. I intend to utilize both wisely to perpetuate the sport that I love. I'm in a unique position, in that I don't need to make a living off of rally. I'm more than happy with the income from my "real" job, and if after a number of years the sport can support itself and provide a great opportunity for the brand new rally enthusiast as well as the hard-core dirt slinger, I'll consider that we've been successful.

In my opinion, it's neither prudent nor possible to implement remote control of the corporation by majority vote from the masses. If everyone voted for me to write them each $10,000 checks do you really think that's what I'd do? The opinions and suggestions from everybody are valuable, but at some point we'll be unable to please everybody all the time and tough decisions will need to be made in a timely and rational manner. I see it as my reponsibility to make sure that happens, not to make those decisions in a vacuum on my own.

So please bear with us as we get on top of things here, and at least be prepared to give us a chance to make it all gel. I want to succeed in refining rally here in the US as much or more than anyone else, and you are entirely correct when you say I need help from all of you to get it done right.

Now, off to "to-do" list item #175 of 38,079,182...

Cheers,
-Doug

 

[mvb]

RE: The expertise...

Cheers to that, Doug.

I look forward to what the future brings. Anything is better than what we had...

 

[Tommyguns]

RE: The expertise...

I think this is a new dawn in the sport of rally in the U.S. I want to commend Doug and the others involved in steping in and taking the reigns. I think that in time this sport will be the better for this and we will all see the benifits.

 

[Do It Sidewayz]

RE: The expertise...

that last pic..


those all the stinking lawyers you guys have down there...i've been meaning to take care of them....

*walks away*

"where'd i put me stomping boots???......oh there they are"

*clunk....clunk...clunk....clunk*

"these boots were made for stompin....and that's just what they do"

I might have another pair in the closet...anyone care to join?

Lawyers....you guys don't need no stinking lawyers
}>

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: The expertise...

>that last pic..
[http://faculty.evansville.edu/rl29/art105/img/delacroix_liberty.jpg]
>
>
>those all the stinking lawyers you guys have down
>there...i've been meaning to take care of them....

Yes Chris, that's what I think those corpses in the foreground are, lawyers and accountants, and insurance types.
>
>*walks away*
>
>"where'd i put me stomping boots???......oh there they are"
>
>*clunk....clunk...clunk....clunk*
>
>"these boots were made for stompin....and that's just what
>they do"
>
>I might have another pair in the closet...anyone care to
>join?
>
>Lawyers....you guys don't need no stinking lawyers
>}>

What's that great line from Shakespear?
"First, kill all the lawyers"





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!

 

[Guest]

RE: The expertise...

Everbody hates Lawyers till they need one... right Wilson?






http://www.treesandturtles.com/

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Thanks for the reply, Doug

>Hello John & folks,

>
>Despite a number of people cheering for "me" and what "I'm"
>trying to do, don't let them persuade you for a second that
>I think I can take care of everything on my own. A very
>basic business lesson that's critical to success is to make
>sure you surround yourself with good people capable of
>making the right decisions. My job will basically be to make
>sure I have access to those people, and to bless their
>decisions with large checks.

That sounds nice
But there are long lasting and serious divisions and conflicts in US rallying which go well past anything large checks alone can solve.
And these problems were deep and serious long before you got involved a couple of years ago.
The problems have not been resolved in the 20 years I have been around rally, and that is probably a result of no concensus of what rally IN USA is supposed to be.

The failure to arrive at anything like a consensus is one thing,
the failure to attempt to build and define and refine a consensus is another thing entirely.
This failure is structual and part of the haphazard and amaturish and cliquey way that the sport has been governed, and it seems as thou the primary qualification for any given position is the LACK of experience in any given area.

I think you would agrree that any enterprise that ignores the corporate experience imbedded in the skulls of those who have been in the sport for 20 plus years is wasting valuable resources and likey to waste time and money.
>
>Collectively, Rally America has more resources, both
>monetarily and personnel-wise, than the SCCA had. I intend
>to utilize both wisely to perpetuate the sport that I love.
>I'm in a unique position, in that I don't need to make a
>living off of rally. I'm more than happy with the income
>from my "real" job, and if after a number of years the sport
>can support itself and provide a great opportunity for the
>brand new rally enthusiast as well as the hard-core dirt
>slinger, I'll consider that we've been successful.

I wish you luck, and being an optimist I have ben trying my best for the last 20 years to encourge people to get into the sport, to volunteer, to build their cars so they last and take punishment, to encourage them when the build drags on, but I would suggest very strongly that you use a pencil in your planning since pencil have erasers, and I would encourage you to review the recent years of discontent, most doing the longest and most consistant criticism are those with extensive experience either competeing or organising or both, and oddly enough, most of what was predicted did indeed come to pass. (that's not surprising as the same cycles have been repeated before several times, it's only new to newbies)
>
>In my opinion, it's neither prudent nor possible to
>implement remote control of the corporation by majority vote
>from the masses.

However Doug, from a business point of view, I think you might agree that attempting to control THE SPORT without carefully tailoring the product offered to the majority of the 'consumers' while indeed possible, it would certainly be imprudent.






If everyone voted for me to write them each
>$10,000 checks do you really think that's what I'd do?

that's sorta of silly, nobody is suggesting that.



The
>opinions and suggestions from everybody are valuable, but at
>some point we'll be unable to please everybody all the time
>and tough decisions will need to be made in a timely and
>rational manner. I see it as my reponsibility to make sure
>that happens, not to make those decisions in a vacuum on my
>own.

Good, but the long historical divisions need to be examined, and something which I have suggested till I'm blue in the face is that there should be clearly stated reasons given AND a STATEMENT of INTENT of what is trying to be accomplished, and above all OPENESS AND HONESTY, something lacking throughout every aspect of the recent history of the Rally department at SCCA.
People are not fools and the membership is not as Spitzner so infamously said a bunch of 'lunatics' in his "can't have the lunatics running the asylum!" statement.


>
>So please bear with us as we get on top of things here, and
>at least be prepared to give us a chance to make it all gel.
> I want to succeed in refining rally here in the US as much
>or more than anyone else, and you are entirely correct when
>you say I need help from all of you to get it done right.


That _refining_ begins with _defining_.
And that's the rub!

Gotta know where you're going to know what road to take, eh?
Separate thread time, eh?
>
>Now, off to "to-do" list item #175 of 38,079,182...
>
>Cheers,
>-Doug





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: The expertise...

>Everbody hates Lawyers till they need one... right Wilson?
>
>>>" It was very simple, and at the end of that moving appeal to every altruistic sentiment it blazed at you, luminous and terrifying, like a flash of lightning in a serene sky: `Exterminate all the brutes!'"

Conrad
Heart of Darkness
1902





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!