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don't cut
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Seeing those pics of Magic Mtn. that Alex just posted got me thinking, what's the future of tarmac rallies in the US? I've talked to officials from both of our illustrious sanctioning bodies, and gotten opinions that range from "Americans aren't interested in watching tarmac rallies, so all ours will be on dirt" to "Evironmental concerns with gravel roads will eventually drive all new rallies to tarmac." (I'm paraphrasing here, not quoting.) What's the special stage consensus on tarmac rallies?

I see lotsa different issues here. On the one hand, the little bit of tarmac I've done has been fun, but on the other hand it isn't any more fun than gravel. Tarmac requires a completely different setup, which increases costs, but ultimately isn't as hard on the cars, which saves money. Americans may equate rally with gravel driving, but if they aren't paying attention in the first place, who cares?

My opinion: I'd like to at least one, but not more than two national championship rounds go tarmac, as well as some independant clubrallies. I think if we are ever going to develop a truly world class rally driver we need to do some tarmac training. An American in the WRC will do wondors for the sport over here, but we need to get him/her there first.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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Dude, there are a TON of tarmac stages out there! Hallett Motor Racing Circuit, Heartland Park Topeka, Gateway International, Road America, Gingerman, Virginia International, Lime Rock Park, Road Atlanta, Sears Point, Laguna Seca, Portland International, Sebring, Texas World, Mid America Motorsport, etc. }(

Halley ...
BBBBB (Bring Back Big Bend Bash)
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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Rally Tennesee is all Tarmac,

+ Recce

I am big on getting tarmac experience, and will be competing there for sure.

Although for the WRC Tarmac experience is less and less important as the FIA wants new rounds to be Gravel.

I hate the attitude that Gravel = Rally and if you want Tarmac you should be on a track. Whats the story with that.
 

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Dirt surfer
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Best way to support development of tarmac rally in USA is to show up at NASA Rally Tennessee ready to rumble. If this race is a dud due to small turnout, we have only ourselves to blame.

Crank up the DMS bump/rebound, duct some extra airflow over the brakes, unbolt the backing plates, bolt on fresh pads and some fat gumballs, strap in and 3-2-1-GO. Be super smooth, plan way ahead, trail brake like mad, lissen to yer navvie, and don't try to make like Makinen on your first tarmac adventure.

Of course there's more to it than that, but you gotta start someplace. There's sure to be bunch of Irish lads show up who have done this tarmac business a time or three, it'll be a learning extravaganza.


Dave G
www.lastditchracing.net


"...Embrace loose gravel (spread onto tarmac by bad boys cutting corners) , beware big trees..."
 

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>Rally Tennesee is all Tarmac,
>
>+ Recce
>
>I am big on getting tarmac experience, and will be competing
>there for sure.
>
>Although for the WRC Tarmac experience is less and less
>important as the FIA wants new rounds to be Gravel.
>
>I hate the attitude that Gravel = Rally and if you want Tarmac
>you should be on a track. Whats the story with that.


Matt I feel the same way. I think there should be a good mixture of tarmac/gravel. And I will also be there. I run a Proflex setup that works on tarmac or gravel with diff. springs. So I dont buy the excuse it will cost more. But I suppose you could still hit a tree. I sure hope we get a good turnout. You live down there dont you Matt?

Rallymeister
 

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Its great to see that there are others out in rally who want tarmac rally events , I have posted a thread on rally america about this same issue on questions to organizers . I personally talked to JB the owner of RA and he said it would cost to much for teams to change the car over for tarmac .I think
its an insurance thing and its alot of extra work that RA can not handle at this time , also I think they would loose a number of teams do to the danger of tarmac high speed rallies , It is a whole differnt world
of fear and comitment to driving a rally car . Not to take any hting away from dirt gravel or snow , do not get me wrong .

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
HELP ME TO MAKE A CHANGE FOR THE FUTURE OF RALLY TARMAC . MAKE A POST ON RALLY AMERICAS SITE :) :) :) :) :) :)

thanks so much chaosquest1
 
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Rally Tennessee, part of the Eastern States Rally Championship,
taking place in five weeks, is an all tarmac two-day event.

The International Rally New York on September 29 - October 1,
part of the United States Rally Championship,
is a two-day event with almost half of the stage mileage on tarmac.

Both events allow reconnaissance.

Next year, BOTH events will be two-day tarmac events and will be
included in the 2006 United States Rally Championship.

Ivan Orisek
Chairman & Clerk of the Course
International Rally New York
 

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At Rim, I actually enjoyed the tarmac sections better (especially coming back on Magic Mtn with no tread left :)) as it increased the speed of the event that can be a little slow at times and hard to get a rhythmn (in my opinion, especially with the Hungry Valley stages) There seems to be plenty of paved roads in those mountains, and a tarmac rally there would be AWESOME. Plus, the roads wouldn't be at the mercy of the previous winters' whether. Just a thought...

Rally TN seems like it would be fun tarmac, but the character of the roads there feel well suited for gravel. It's twisty, but wider and flowing so that you're just nicely sliding from side to side all the time.

Thanks,
Alex
 

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>>Rally Tennesee is all Tarmac,
>>
>>+ Recce
>>
>>I am big on getting tarmac experience, and will be competing
>>there for sure.
>>
>>Although for the WRC Tarmac experience is less and less
>>important as the FIA wants new rounds to be Gravel.
>>
>>I hate the attitude that Gravel = Rally and if you want
>Tarmac
>>you should be on a track. Whats the story with that.
>
>
You live down there dont you Matt?
>

Wrong Matt, I'm from Michigan.
 

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Hi Alex et al,

The tarmac Rally TN is in a totally different part of TN, about 250 miles to the west. It's near the TN river about 1.5 hours WSW of Nashville. The terrain is a lot different, more like eastern PA, or central VA or NC. I'd expect the roads to be much less curvey than in the east TN mountains. But 'less curvey' than east TN is still curvey! I hope to be there, at least to work.

Regards,
Mark B.
 

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Still would like to see a rally at the tail of the dragon.

I'm going to try to make it to New York. I heard there are a couple carbreaker stages as well?
 

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codriveur
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>I am a tarmac specialist living in chatsworth california . I
>have logged 75,000.00 miles on tarmac all over the LA and
>ventura county mtn roads in 2002 GTI 1.8T vw grp5 RALLY car .
>I run an under ground tarmac club in my area for the last
>three yrs . It is a small group of tarmac rally warriors
>hoping for the day that tarmac will find its way into US
>rally.
>
>thanks so much chaosquest1

Let me help you a bit,

1. The "Fast and Furious" underground racing mindset is not going to endear you to many people who could help you.

2. I think there are only a handful of people on these boards who would have the balls to say they where gravel "specialists". Really, really, really, really good, but specialist? Lose the raceboy bravado.

3. How about you and your band of tarmac marauders setting up and getting sanctioned for a rallycross. Or can you not walk the walk ?

4.Look up the words "modesty" and "neophyte"; use them in a sentance.

Bernie
A modest neophyte :)
 

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I'm laying low at the moment after butting heads with the County Supervisors around here. I will be getting statistics again from the CHP in a year or so. If the number of fatalities hasn't risen, I will be approaching them again for use of the roads.
 

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"I am a tarmac specialist living in chatsworth california . I have logged 75,000.00 miles on tarmac all over the LA and ventura county mtn roads in 2002 GTI 1.8T vw grp5 RALLY car . I run an under ground tarmac club in my area for the last three yrs . It is a small group of tarmac rally warriors hoping for the day that tarmac will find its way into US rally.
Until then I am in the process of preping the car for dirt and gravel because there are no tarmac rallies on the board . Its great to see that there are others out in rally who want tarmac rally events , I have posted a thread on rally america about this same issue on questions to organizers . I personally talked to JB the owner of RA and he said it would cost to much for teams to change the car over for tarmac .I think
its an insurance thing and its alot of extra work that RA can not handle at this time , also I think they would loose a number of teams do to the danger of tarmac high speed rallies , It is a whole differnt world
of fear and comitment to driving a rally car . Not to take any hting away from dirt gravel or snow , do not get me wrong"

You are not a specialist you are an idiot period exclamation point. Thanks for nothing you and your "underground tarmac club" are the people that pretty much singlehandedly ruined tarline for folks last year. Why don't you and you "underground club" buddies post your address so people that bought tires and other equipment for that event can send you the bill. If I sound harsh well the fact is it is really really really hard to get roads and organizers and sanctioning bodies bust their ass to get roads and people like you do not help. JUST BECAUSE YOU DRIVE UP AND DOWN STUNT, TUNA, GMR, BALDY, PAYUMA, SANTA SUZANA PASS, ANGELES, AND MULHOLLAND DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU GUYS ARE TARMAC RALLYIST. I too was once like yourself and ran around in the canyons thinking it was like a rally but I was totally wrong and I am man enough to admit that. IF you really want to get a tarmac rally why don't you and your "club members" go and work at Rim, GOrman, Treeline, Seed 9, and Desert stom all are within a days drive and would show you how to properly organize an event and then you can go to the forest service, CHP, and county officials and then you and your "club members" can run something properly. WIt hthe enviromentalist, residents, and other goverment officials already looking at a lot of rally as "people playing in the woods" we have to change this perception if we would like to continue to use the roads. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Too many times at rallys in the past three years I have seen spectators and other enthusiastic fans driving like idiots following the rally cars on transits but bad things can happen, look at poor Gary Cavett who got sideswiped on his transit to the first stage at Rim 2003 which basically ruined his rally, or that idiot that flipped his WRX a year or two ago (Ojibwe, LSPR I cannot remember) which ended up severely hurting a passenger or even local in So Cal the gourp of guys that drowned when they were canyon running down in San Diego area and went off the road. There is a time and a place for everything and open public roads are never an appropriate place for racing around god forbid you hurt yourself or anyone else but things happen even with the best intentions.

IF YOU TRULLY WANT TO GET A TARMAC RALLY GOING CALL PETE MORRIS, or RAY HOCKER, PAULA GIBEAULT, OR ROGER ALLISON they are local to SOcal and can help you navigate through the proper channels to get an event there are a ton of roads to run the ball is in your court.
 

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As RallyMaster for LSPR I assure you we run every mile of Tarmac we can, that's about 3 miles. Up here in Northern Michigan the only reason to pave a road is if lots of people use it. The only reason lots of people use a road is if lots of people live on it. This makes it nearly impossible to get permission for. This would also make it nearly impossible to control during the running of the stage.
The great thing about organizing a Rally is that anybody can do it. If you know of tarmac roads that would make a great Rally, put together an organizational team, get road use permission and put on an event. If you do it right in four or five years you can turn the event over to someone else on your team and then you can compete. The other way to get a tarmac event is to convince someone else to do the work, that would probably take four or five years too.
 

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Dirt surfer
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>
>Still would like to see a rally at the tail of the dragon.
>
>I'm going to try to make it to New York. I heard there are a
>couple carbreaker stages as well?

Lurch--

the Rally NY organizers have laid in tons of gravel, and what were once insanely rough stages are now merely normal rough ones. nothing worse than Maine Forest. Tighter and twistier, tho. very limited sight lines in many places, you gotta have faith in yer navvie! you get to run recce with jemba book in hand, so it's not as bad as it sounds.

like the format of 1 day tarmac, 1 day gravel... but not so sure I'm wild about RNY going to all tarmac, tho. If some is good, more is not necessarily betta!

Dave G
RNY Fan
www.lastditchracing.net


"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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>
>like the format of 1 day tarmac, 1 day gravel... but not so
>sure I'm wild about RNY going to all tarmac, tho. If some is
>good, more is not necessarily betta!
>

Not gonna be that way from the last post of Ivans.

- We cannot use the tarmac stages on Friday. Consequently, gravel
stages will be run on Friday afternoon/evening and on Saturday morning.
Tarmac will start on Saturday at noon.


It will be my first tarmac experience and I'm very apprehensive. I reserve judgment till after the event.
 

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Aye, but he also said thus:

"Next year, BOTH events will be two-day tarmac events and will be
included in the 2006 United States Rally Championship."

I think that's where he got the idea it would go to tarmac.
 
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>
>Aye, but he also said thus:
>
>"Next year, BOTH events will be two-day tarmac events and will
>be
>included in the 2006 United States Rally Championship."
>
>I think that's where he got the idea it would go to tarmac.
>

Check the 2006 United States Rally Championship Calendar:

Rally New York USA in April 2006 will be all gravel
International Rally New York in September 2006 will be all tarmac

The 2005 International Rally New York on Sept 29 - Oct 1 is
half gravel and half tarmac, in that order.

Ivan Orisek
 

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I guess I'm a Tarmac specialist too! I commute to work on YES! TARMAC! BOTH WAYS. With the thousands of miles i have logged by now surely I should be in contention for any tarmac rally in North America. Can't wait for this doofus to organize it all.
 
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