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all depends on how you look at it

Rocky was 600 + 200 for the jemba notes

PFR will be 600 + recce costs
 

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Really. I guess I just didn't notice entry fees climbing. I never gave much thought to the entry fee as it is such a small portion of our budget but this is getting expensive.
 

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WOW !!! That's very, very, very expensive !!!

We were able in the Quebec Championship to put a limit of 350.00$ of entry fees INCLUDING the recce notes supplied by the organisers with one recce pass with their own rally car !

The notes are made by well know drivers like Antoine L'estage and experienced co-driver like Eirc Tremblay.

I don't see how they can honestly charge that much money for entry fees. I was expecting to run the event but this is just way too expensive for my pocket !!!

Julien Pilon
 

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1125.00$ USD :eek: That's crazy !!!

But at least Pines offers 2 collectable beer Mugs included with the entry fees... ;-)

Julien Pilon
Lachute Subaru
 

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Rest assured Tall Pines is not gouging you pocket book. The event is expensive to put on and without RDG money something had to give. What was the entry last year? $600? plus notes? Its not all that different this year and this event will likely have one of the best fields of the year and some amazing roads.
 

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I do understand what you're saying John but having nice roads does not necessary mean more expensive to organise !

For the "La Baie" rally in Saguenay this year the price was 350.00$ including notes and we were using "Boileau" stage the same roads as Charlevoix 2001 !

I just don't get it ! What is it that is so expensive compared to 2004 where we ran the event for 400.00$ ?

How can we get a regional event in Quebec for 350.00$ with 20 entries and make it "even" budget wise ?

Tall pines will be charging 850.00$ x 50 entires for a total of 42 500.00$$$ Add another 8500.00$ if they make it to 60...

50 000.00$ only in entry fees...

I'm not blaming anybody I'm only debating as what Tall pines has more to offer than Defi that we ran for 450.00$ this year...

Julien Pilon
Lachute Subaru
 

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There are many things that make organising a national that add up in the expense column. But at some point you haveto know where to draw the line and when to start eliminating 'show' aspects that don't create guaranteed revenue ... particularly in a year that doesn't have the sponsorship revenue to support it.

There is also the issue of selling the price ...

would reactions have been as bad to $650 and $225 for notes?
 

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Is some of that money going to a cash purse for competitors? For what competitors get in return, entry fees CAN'T go higher than what Pines is charging, and should be much less in my opinion.

The problem is, events have little to no sponsorship coming in, so the burden of the event expenses have to be passed to the competitors.

It's a fine balance, and I think at this point they need to scale back the glitz and glam a bit to keep entry fees down and attract more competitors. This sport is still struggling to grow and attract new competitors, and we can't start excluding people with high entry fees. The "show" part of events should be paid for by sponsor dollars, not entry fees.

Scaling back the "show" does NOT mean that they can't do a good job promoting the event and existing sponsors though. It's all about putting thought and getting creative with the small details.

Oh, and pleeeeze don't give the Canuck organizers any ideas by comparing our entry fees to US events. :) We are MUCH cheaper, and let's keep it that way! There's a reason why US competitors come up here to rally, but hardly any canadians go south. It's just rediculously expensive.

Many people I talk to who are interested in getting into rally often ask "How much does it cost to enter, and how much can you win?". Uh...it costs about $600, and there's usually no chance to win your money back. This pretty much turns off 99% of them.

When I've competed in the past, I've shared the entry fee with the driver (we're low budget). This has usually been $200-250 each. If that starts to reach $400-500 EACH...I'm out.

EDIT: Just to clarify...I'm all about making the sport more marketable and more of a "show"...but it has to be in balance.
 

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>There are many things that make organising a national that
>add up in the expense column. But at some point you haveto
>know where to draw the line and when to start eliminating
>'show' aspects that don't create guaranteed revenue ...
>particularly in a year that doesn't have the sponsorship
>revenue to support it.
>
>There is also the issue of selling the price ...
>
>would reactions have been as bad to $650 and $225 for notes?
>
>
>

Mine would have been the same ! ;)

Even with the excuse of not having Subaru or RDG it doesn't make sense, RDG was giving 6000.00$ last year and Subaru 4000.00$ per event prior to RDG. If they could do it with entry fee at 450.00$ x 50 entry = 22500.00$ + the 6000.00$ by RDG = 28500.00$

Now they are asking 850.00$ x 50 = 42500.00$...

Only a small difference of 14000.00$...

Julien Pilon
Lachute Subaru
 

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I wonder what the base line effect on entry fee is when awards expenses are removed? Any ideas?

If I ever win something I'd happy with an empty beer can signed by my fellow competitors :)
 

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Hi All,

To keep things in perspective, if you competed in the National and Regional Pines last year and ran with Organizer Supplied Notes you would have paid $775 CDN. This year you will pay $875 CDN. That's an increase of $100 CDN even with the loss of a major series sponsor.

It was unfortunate that we were required to raise entry fees for this year. The current state of sponsorship in the National Series was our main factor. The fallout of the sponsorship problems of last year have made it very difficult to convince sponsors that their involvement rally will give them a return in investment with no Television. While the Pines is working very hard to obtain TV, we have not currently been able to commit to anything. Rally is currently damaged goods in the eyes of most sponsors. The last thing that we wanted was to have the competitors pay for these problems, but sponsorship income is almost non-existent and difficult to get. Volunteer's can only dedicate a finite amount of time to sponsorship efforts. The Pines has invested significant time and effort on sponsorship with little return this season.

The loss of the $6000 of RDG money is not the only contributing factor to the increase in fees. The Pines had additional sponsorship agreements with the series sponsor that brought in additional revenue. Obviously this additional sponsor income has been lost with the sponsor.

Demand by competitors for higher quality Descriptive Stage Notes and a Notes Familiarization pass also imposes much higher costs for the rally. Even though we are not using Jemba, costs for this year to produce the notes will be very high. We hope that the outcome of this is safer, better quality notes that competitors will have confidence in. Notes are also being given to ALL competitors this year due to the new Combined Route Book / Descriptive Stage Notes format.

Overall, the number of competitors that are actually running in the series has dropped from last year for many reasons. Events have has to react to cover their costs by expecting less competitors. This has the effect of spreading the cost of an event over a smaller number of competitors. This also creates a large financial risk for for the Pines and the Maple Leaf Rally Club. It is very difficult to run an event to break-even when we don't have commitments from competitors that they will be running the event. If the Pines could count on a certain number of competitors to run, it would be easier to forecast event revenue and thus hopefully lower entry fees.

The number of workers that the Pines needs every year to run a safe event also grows. Workers have a costs associated with managing and thanking them and are worth every penny that we spend on them.

Much of costs of the "show" that people are speaking of are actually covered by and run by the Town of Bancroft (our Host Sponsor). We feel we have been very diligent and responsible in trying to cut costs without sacrificing the quality of the event. People often forget that if you sacrifice the quality of the show too much, no one will watch. Likely a bad example, but who would have watched Starwars if it was shot with a home camcorder? If we are able to obtain additional sponsorship between now and the event, we will most certainly be putting it back towards the competitors in whatever way we can.

The Pines strongly believes that promotion and marketing of the event will have important long term benefit to competitors, sponsors and rallysport in general. While there are some cheap/free ways of marketing, the majority still cost money. We could stop promoting the event all together to save a few bucks, but overall that's a poor short term solution that will cause problems down the road. Sponsors need to see that events can market themselves properly to be assured that they will get a good return on investment through their involvement with the event. Honestly, this is something that I think the rallysport community needs to improve on but the good news is that this is slowly happening. Without marketing and promotion, it will be difficult to create growth. Growth is important as costs to run rallies keeps creeping up and up. If events don't grow it will be difficult to support the kind of quality that is now expected from an event. In a way events are marketing and promoting competitors which should be seen as additional value that an event gives to the competitor and is often not.

These are some (not even all) of the factors that have been involved in setting the Pines entry fees. We have tried to keep them as low as possible and it wasn't an easy decision to raise them. Protesting high entry fees by not running an event because isn't going to solve the problem. It's only going to compound it. Events are really nothing without competitors but sometimes it's the competitors that end up having to pay when times are tough and money is tight. I would ask that all competitors support the events in this time of financial hardship and hopefully a series sponsor will emerge soon to help the events lower their entry fees

Thanks for voicing your concerns,

Richard
 

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"It is very difficult to run an event to break-even when we don't have commitments from competitors that they will be running the event. If the Pines could count on a certain number of competitors to run, it would be easier to forecast event revenue and thus hopefully lower entry fees."

Hmmm...maybe it IS time to think about that championship pre-registration idea.

W
 

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I hope this is just a short term solution. Everyone can be assurred that our goal IS to keep lowering entry fees, not keep raising them. Hopefully our efforts will pay off and additional sponsorship can be obtained that will allow us to lower entry fees for all competitors. It has been a tough year on all events.
 

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>I do have one question-why is Tall Pines being held over the
>US Holiday of Thanksgiving this year? This makes it very
>difficult for US competitors. Was this considered?

I think the weekend is dictated by the end of a hunting season and the onset of snow more than anything. But shouln't running on a holiday weekend be an advantage for some, due to the less missed work deal?
 

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PAddy is right, the end of deer hunting season is always the week before Pines. We cant run on the roads when hunting season is on, trust me, its scary!!
 

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"Overall, the number of competitors that are actually running in the series has dropped from last year for many reasons. Events have has to react to cover their costs by expecting less competitors. This has the effect of spreading the cost of an event over a smaller number of competitors. This also creates a large financial risk for for the Pines and the Maple Leaf Rally Club. It is very difficult to run an event to break-even when we don't have commitments from competitors that they will be running the event. If the Pines could count on a certain number of competitors to run, it would be easier to forecast event revenue and thus hopefully lower entry fees.

The number of workers that the Pines needs every year to run a safe event also grows. Workers have a costs associated with managing and thanking them and are worth every penny that we spend on them"

Looks like a contradiction! More people to organise an event with less entries!

MJB
www.pbrally.ca
 
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