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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im getting my new, not so new, WRX in the next few weeks, 2004, i hope...:confused: I got a good chunk of cash still left over and was eager to see what parts I should start getting NOW, so I can get to work ASAP. Now I know some ppl would say its stupid to buy and build a Rally car. But also iv seen those who say that it gives u a better understanding of the car, and being able to notice errors and breaks more effectively. So iv decided to go balls out and build it all up. So I was hoping that some of you fine, more experienced, Rally racers could lend a hand in what i need to get started. Im attending the Ridgecrest Rally School this coming week, and Widget Recce School the next week. Now i know I cant build it up for the Schools, but my main, DREAM, goal is to have it set up in time for the Gorman Rally in August. Im also a So Cal person, so any warehouse or retail storefront locations would also be great. Cant wait to get started, and thanks for any, and all help!!! :D
 

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Flat everywhere
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341 Posts
Only need one item on your list, an already built car. DO NOT BUILD your own car! I have done it, it will cost you too much. You will figure out a car someone else built just as easily as you would building your own.

Colin
 

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ITURNRT
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2,061 Posts
What class do you plan to run? What's your total budget?

Your basic items are:
Suspension
Skidplates

Everything else depends on your class and budget
 

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ITURNRT
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Whoops double post
 

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Oh wow that was fun.
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Build it! Just spend time researching and you will figure out what is good and not good. Go to a rally etc blah blah blah etc etc . Your question has been asked a lot before, so don't get miffed when you see these responses, but I say build(cause that's what I'm doing too!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To Billy:
I suppose on trying to run a Group N set up, or is that not good? Ya, my first thoughts were towards suspension, bottom plates, and a roll cage. My budget currently, since im basicly just starting out, is between $3,000 and $5,000. I "could" go as far as $10,000 if i really wanted to, but i was hoping to put that towards fuel, repairs, tires, blah blah blah. Like i said, i plan on Group N, unless thats not a good idea for beginners.

To Dazed Driver:
Why not use a wrx? Should i use my '90 auto taurus instead? Id just like to know more behind ur objection. Is it bad since its my 1st, and wen i eventually crash ill flip? well... ill try not to. id just like to hear more.

To Big Green:
Thanks for the support buddy! Ya i plan on attending the rallies coming up around so cal, and the classes. Ill be sure to drop by and check on how your progress is coming along also.

BTW: On top of this being my first REAL project, and being new to the sport all together, I plan on taking things on the car very easy the first few months of working on it. I am taking any, and all rally schools and classes in the area, and dont plan on "push it to the limit" levels, until most likely either attending the Gorman rally in August, or, BY THE GRACE OF GOD, i somehow manage to attend the Team O"Neil school. So the car wont get too banged up, at least for a while. Thanks for all your input.
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKZV7JchdSc


Thats why *no one* recommends a wrx at a starter.


Besides, you're apparently so new that you dont know that group N doesnt exist in America, Rally America won't let you run turbo AWD as a beginner (NASA does, I believe), and "bottom plates" are called sump guards or skid plates.

Do your self a favor and crash something cheap. Build a car that is rally ready for your 3-5k AFTER the purchase of your "new but not new" wrx.
 

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Rally, Win, Drink Beer
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895 Posts
A nice cage will cost you sonewhere in the $4K - $8K range by itself. Given your budget it sounds like you need to buy something ready to rally or that needs minor updates. The WRX idea won't work given your budget.
 

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Not Ideal
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To Billy:
I suppose on trying to run a Group N set up, or is that not good? Ya, my first thoughts were towards suspension, bottom plates, and a roll cage. My budget currently, since im basicly just starting out, is between $3,000 and $5,000. I "could" go as far as $10,000 if i really wanted to, but i was hoping to put that towards fuel, repairs, tires, blah blah blah. Like i said, i plan on Group N, unless thats not a good idea for beginners.

To Dazed Driver:
Why not use a wrx? Should i use my '90 auto taurus instead? Id just like to know more behind ur objection. Is it bad since its my 1st, and wen i eventually crash ill flip? well... ill try not to. id just like to hear more.

To Big Green:
Thanks for the support buddy! Ya i plan on attending the rallies coming up around so cal, and the classes. Ill be sure to drop by and check on how your progress is coming along also.

BTW: On top of this being my first REAL project, and being new to the sport all together, I plan on taking things on the car very easy the first few months of working on it. I am taking any, and all rally schools and classes in the area, and dont plan on "push it to the limit" levels, until most likely either attending the Gorman rally in August, or, BY THE GRACE OF GOD, i somehow manage to attend the Team O"Neil school. So the car wont get too banged up, at least for a while. Thanks for all your input.
there is no group n in the USA.

5k barely covers your rollcage, helmet, suit, hans, seats, belts. an additional 5k barely covers your suspension, wheels and tires.

you can think that you won't "push it to the limits" just sitting here behind a keyboard - once you get behind the wheel, good luck. Trust me, I was in your shoes just last year - built an STI with an n/a motor for Open Light. Rolled it during my 4th race when we were out there to "take it easy and safe". Re-building it in 4 weeks for OFR cost about the same as what you have budgeted to build the entire car. ;) (but we did finish the season and successfully ran an open class car at sno*drift, so it can be done, just think it through).

after doing what you're doing... my recommendation is buy an inexpensive, pre-built car. It sounds like you don't have the budget at this time to properly run a GD chassis wrx which will leave you frustrated. The question is, do you want to spend all your money building a car or all your money racing?
 

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C.m.f.S.
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1,268 Posts
Build it! Just spend time researching and you will figure out what is good and not good.
If by researching you mean getting dirty for a few years by helping crew with various teams (the higher level the better, so you can see how the "big guys" do things), getting involved in between event reprep, maybe codriving in a few different cars, and just generally getting as much hands on experience as possible to find out what works and what doesnt, then I agree with you. But you're not going to learn how to build a rally car by "researching" on the internet.

After being involved in the sport for 10+ years, crewing for I dont know how many teams on all different levels, codriving, driving my own pre-built car for 4 years, having gone to an automotive tech school for 2 years and working for 5 years as a mechanic I feel that I could build a decent car now. But I would hate to see what I would have come up with if I tried to build my own car 7 years ago. Though I building a car I think of doing it all myself, it certainly costs more to pay other people to do the things you cant.

A nice cage will cost you sonewhere in the $4K - $8K range by itself. Given your budget it sounds like you need to buy something ready to rally or that needs minor updates. The WRX idea won't work given your budget.
And switching over to a 6 speed that will actually take some abuse will be another 3-4k.
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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If you MUST start with a subaru:
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1710/cat/13

Cheaper that you could possibly build one for.

To answer the 'why not a wrx' question... if you start in lower horsepower/grip cars you'll neet to learn to drive smoothly and cleanly to do well. You can then transfer those skills to higher power cars. It is the BEST way to learn how to drive fast.

If you really really want to build:
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1708/cat/13
 

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ITURNRT
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2,061 Posts
If you MUST start with a subaru:
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1710/cat/13

Cheaper that you could possibly build one for.
You're looking at several thousand (suspension can be anywhere from a couple thousand to $5k a corner if you want) just to replace all the missing bits from the theft on that car and get some spares.



http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1761/cat/13

Evan Cline's car, while a bit more expensive, is actually complete. You could probably sell your WRX for 10k then use the 5k budget to buy his car.
 

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<catchy rally phrase>
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Suspension:

buy these:
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1780/cat/18
(offer him $500)

The find a guy named John Vanlandingham (www.rallyanarchy.com) and buy some properly valved bilstein inserts for them. Or I think he'll sell you a brand new set of '50mm JVAB Sooper Bitchin' Suspenders' for around $2250 (don't quote me on that). His number is on there, so call him, but start the conversation with, "I'm sorry, I'm about to bug you with a bunch of sub-a-rat questions..." Then listen to what he says for the next 90 minutes (make sure you phone is charged).


skid plate, rear diff skid plate. some kind of UHMW under armour for the rest of the underbody.

Roll cage:
You'll be able to find someone in SoCal that will do a NASA legal cage for you for around $3500 (that's what I was quoted a few times). Don't worry about getting it TIG welded or a 12 point cage. a 6 point NASA legal cage is very safe. don't worry about stitch welding. just get the sound deadening off as best you can; the 'dry ice' trick works great.


Intercom: look for them used on here or on ebay....if you can't find one or borrow one for your first event, a brand new peltor is $210 USD.

rally computer: you don't need one.

cool switches and stuff....you don't need them. wire any aux lights to your high beam switch. Don't worry about moving your battery, or getting a light weight one, don't worry about the AC system yet,

Aux Lights.....cheap ebay kc lights or cheap kragen HID's work fine.

good, safe seats can be had for around $350 each. G-force harnesses and race suits as well. Peltor helmets/intercom to go with your peltor intercom.

terratrip is another, cheaper option in that regard, but I've used both.....I'd never pay for a terratrip intercom, but that's just my opinion (in fact, someone will read this and tell you that terratrips are 'just as good' in 3.....2.....1....)


engine: just add the 34mm restrictor ($175 from barrett dash at www.allwheelsdriven.com) and get tuned for it. maybe get a spare TD-04 off NASIOC used, but don't even think about upgrading turbos.

Brakes: the only benefit of a WRX...stock brakes are pretty good. just make sure you got decent rotors and pads (I'm a big fan of EBC stuff myself. Inexpensive and for this level, very good quality. 'yellow' pads)


tires and rims...plenty of used tires and 15" rally tires for sale around here....shop around. Hell, by the time Gorman comes around, I'll have some used Lassa Rally 2s I can sell you.

Get all the basic safety stuff from Charles at www.safedrives.com
Get a spill kit from: http://www.rallylights.com/default.aspx
get a tow rope.
memorize NASA and RA rules.

spares: if you have cash left over....get spare control arms (upgrade to STI aluminum ones if you can and your class allows it), lateral links, and a spare rear diff. All these can be found fairly cheap off NASIOC used section.


BTW, I'll be at the CRS rally school as well, not taking the class but going down to play...I don't know if I'll have my WRX there, but lets meet up and chat.
 

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Kevin Welker
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479 Posts
Good advice Jon. When he's done buying that stuff he'll have no money left over to pay for tow fuel, lodging, food and entry fee. Which is more than his stated budget anyway.

I am in the camp that recommends NOT buying the WRX, spending half of what you would have spent on a fully prepped car (with some spares) then having plenty of money left to run a full CRS season.

You have enough money to be a rallyist, but not in a car that you build.

I'll rephrase Carl's question, Do you want to spend at least a season (possibly more) pouring money into a "project" so that you can get it out on stage and have your turbo Subaru beaten by VWs or do you want to get out there and begin building your skills right away in a cheap, fun car?
 

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<catchy rally phrase>
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Good advice Jon. When he's done buying that stuff he'll have no money left over to pay for tow fuel, lodging, food and entry fee. Which is more than his stated budget anyway.
Hey, I just answered the man's question. not gonna judge him....I'll let him figure out if he can finance it or not, that's none of my business.:cool:


I don't have kids, but every parent I ever talked to says that no matter how much they tell their kids, "Don't touch....its HOT."....the kid never learns until they touch it.


Apparently I still have my hand on the burner ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for everyones advice and input. BUT, since i am met with half of you saying to build my WRX and have faith, while the other side is saying no, so i believe i have come up with a solution... First off, im keeping the WRX, its my new baby. Im NOT going to rush into building it up for a rally. INSTEAD, I plan of obtaining a somewhat building block car somewhere here in So Cal. Some of you have sent links to cars and i thank you for that. Billy, took a look at your GTI u got up for sale. Its MORE than ideal for me, but i just cant deal with traveling across the country and then going thru the CA smog and other BS, because id still like to drive my "toys" on the street. One car im REALLY looking into as a starter is this:
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1708

Its already pretty stripped, and everyone seems to say that GTI are great starters, and the $500 price aint bad either.
AND I LOVE THESE TWO SET UPS!!! I just am bummed i dont have the $15,000 to blow on these:
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1710/cat/13
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1761/cat/13

I still plan on working on getting some basic parts for my WRX; suspension, roll cage, skid plates, etc.; but most likely not racing it, or doing much extreme stuff to it. I do however, hope to get that GTI and build it up, and race the crap out of it. Any suggestions or advice on this new approach would be great. Thanks for all the help and input!!!
 

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Global Village Idiot
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To be honest it really doesn't matter what platform you are starting with to build the car - the money you then have to put into it is pretty much the same whether it is stock, PGT or open class.

That Golf is only one step away from your current WRX in being a rally car - it is stripped. That is one day of work on your car.

Belts, Cage, Seats, rally stuff all cost the same no matter whether you build a Mini or a Bugatti - the outlay in the purchase cost of the original car is likely to be the least expense you have.

I would recommend still looking for something more complete to start with. Maybe not a $10-15,000 Subaru.
And something you said about your 2004 makes me think you shouldn't race it.
You said "it's your baby". Learn to hate it, then when (not if) something happens to it you will not be too upset.

I am fairly local to you (North Hollywood) so if you want to chat sometime then drop me a line.
If you REALLY have you heart set on building it yourself I can point you in the right direction as a far as decent places to get a cage done (see my signature) and stores in the area that may give you a good price on equipment.
 
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