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NASA Rally Sport grassroots!!!
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Rally Nut said
>Who are Subaru America competeing against in the USA in their
>Multi thousand $$$$ cars ...The Privater's

Oh, Rally Nut, here we go again. :D It's fun, really!

1) Subaru is under no obligation to provide competitors to itself. Have you built, funded, and donated any rally cars to your competitors recently?

2) **ALL** rally cars are multi-thousand dollar cars. Even the cheapest rally car will use up your four dollar signs in its purchase price.

3) A "Privater" seems to be some kind of German beer brewer. It certainly would be comical if Subaru was competing against those guys... I can imagine the Ompah band at service now!

:)

Cheers,
Anders
 

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don't cut
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>Who are Subaru America competeing against in the USA in their
>Multi thousand $$$$ cars ...The Privater's

Subaru is making sure they don't end up like Mitsubishi. By slapping a hood scoop on a Forester, and hanging a poster of Petter of Travis over it, yuppies don't feel so bad about buying the equivalent of a SUV or station wagon.


Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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>Rally Nut said
>>Who are Subaru America competeing against in the USA in
>their
>>Multi thousand $$$$ cars ...The Privater's
>
>Oh, Rally Nut, here we go again. :D It's fun, really!
>
>1) Subaru is under no obligation to provide competitors to
>itself. Have you built, funded, and donated any rally cars to
>your competitors recently?
>
>2) **ALL** rally cars are multi-thousand dollar cars. Even the
>cheapest rally car will use up your four dollar signs in its
>purchase price.
>
>3) A "Privater" seems to be some kind of German beer brewer.
>It certainly would be comical if Subaru was competing against
>those guys... I can imagine the Ompah band at service now!
>
>:)
>
>Cheers,
>Anders

I very well understand the cost of running a rally car.... I own and run a 2004 Subaru GR A in my own Country IRELAND...But I think it's not fair to the rally drivers with very small budgets to be competeing against the Manfacturers, And the little guy kicking their butt and getting no Expouser after....The same thing happened when SCCA were running rallys... SCCA were all over SUBARU with their toned down WRC cars...The same thing with RA...And you wonder why Entries are so low ...At least NASA are doing something for the little GUY ...Without the little GUY rally will die, Thats why rally survie'd in Europe they take care of the guy's with small budgets.
 

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I wouldn't look at this as anything other than Travis and Ken playing in the woods. Some other things may come of it (marketing, race wins, PWRC drives, lots of wrecked cars) but this is really just two guys with lots of sponsorship and personal $$ playing in rally cars.

There will always be "haves" and "have nots" in racing. If "Team Subaru USA" left the series you would just be complaining about the new "haves". The best thing to do is to not try to compete in the "premier" class if you can't afford to do it, and not worry about guys who comprise less than 5% of most rally entry lists. Much more interesting things going on, I think we have all seen blue/yellow Subarus zooming through the forest by now...

-C
 

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>>Who are Subaru America competeing against in the USA in
>their
>>Multi thousand $$$$ cars ...The Privater's
>
>Subaru is making sure they don't end up like Mitsubishi. By
>slapping a hood scoop on a Forester, and hanging a poster of
>Petter of Travis over it, yuppies don't feel so bad about
>buying the equivalent of a SUV or station wagon.
>
>
>Dennis Martin
>[email protected]
>920-432-4845

Mitsubishi dominated rally for a long time and will again...They need drivers .
Another thing theres too many rally orgenisers Like RA NASA CRS and so on, You only need one main body to keep everything on the straight and narrow.
Did you sell you Mitsubishi yet?
 

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RA NASA CRS

In case you didn't know or couldn't be bothered to find out, RA and NASA are sanctioning bodies, not organisers. CRS is not a sanctioning body but a club comprising of some rally organisers. Sheesh!

Can't see me in your mirrors?
I must be in front of you!
 

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C.m.f.S.
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>I think it's not fair to the rally drivers with very small
>budgets to be competeing against the Manfacturers

Rally drivers with very small budgets should realize how their small budget limits their participation and pick a class accordingly. Otherwise they wont be around for very long once they run out of funds. Theres plenty of cheaper classes than Open class. Some of those guys spend more in tires per event than I make in a year, but I'm still out there running my car because my level of involvement is on par with the funds I have available.
 

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Couch rallyist!
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>Subaru is making sure they don't end up like Mitsubishi. By
>slapping a hood scoop on a Forester, and hanging a poster of
>Petter of Travis over it, yuppies don't feel so bad about
>buying the equivalent of a SUV or station wagon.

Hey! Foresters are cool, even without the turbo! :)
 

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I do not believe I am going to say this, but I agree w/ rallynut on some of his arguments. I do believe that there should only be one national series, and if you look back at other forums, rallynut, you will see that this has been examined and argued a million times. It is not as if you are bringing some sort of great revalation to our eyes. Maybe some day there will be, but for now, neither organization is just going to give up.

As for Subaru, I can find no fault in them for wanting to promote their product through RA, and especially since they are using a lot of Redbull and DC shoes money to do it. The problem I have is that RA has become "The Subaru Show". I mean every picture on that website is of a Subaru. Not only that, but if you are not riding for the factory Subaru team you are just chop liver. The press releases were more bias toward the Subaru Factory team than even the PR from the Subaru website. I really think it would benefit RA to try to be a little less bias toward Subarus. I assume, as always, there are politics involved, but it would be nice to see a Mitsubishi or a Mazda 3 or pretty much anything else up on the website. Just my two cents.
 

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>
>>Subaru is making sure they don't end up like Mitsubishi. By
>>slapping a hood scoop on a Forester, and hanging a poster of
>>Petter of Travis over it, yuppies don't feel so bad about
>>buying the equivalent of a SUV or station wagon.
>
>Hey! Foresters are cool, even without the turbo! :)


An American Subaru 2.5 STI is a Forester Engine with a turbo and a hood scoop
 

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>RA NASA CRS
>
>In case you didn't know or couldn't be bothered to find out,
>RA and NASA are sanctioning bodies, not organisers. CRS is not
>a sanctioning body but a club comprising of some rally
>organisers. Sheesh!
>
>Can't see me in your mirrors?
>I must be in front of you!

Same thing different NAME
 

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I don't understand why people are upset with RA's and Subaru's relationship. RA is a privately owned business. They can do what they want....nothing wrong with that. SCCA's situation was another story, but it's too late now.

My 365 million dollar Powerball ticket didn't win. If it was a winner I would have bought out RA and NASA rally. There would be one series that would operate under my rules.

Rule 1. Workers would have partial or full reimbursement for travel, meals, lodging.

Rule 2. Any factory backed team would pay $15,000 per entry. If they didn't like it.... bye, bye.

Maybe next time......
 

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>I do not believe I am going to say this, but I agree w/
>rallynut on some of his arguments. I do believe that there
>should only be one national series, and if you look back at
>other forums, rallynut, you will see that this has been
>examined and argued a million times. It is not as if you are
>bringing some sort of great revalation to our eyes. Maybe some
>day there will be, but for now, neither organization is just
>going to give up.
>
>As for Subaru, I can find no fault in them for wanting to
>promote their product through RA, and especially since they
>are using a lot of Redbull and DC shoes money to do it. The
>problem I have is that RA has become "The Subaru Show". I mean
>every picture on that website is of a Subaru. Not only that,
>but if you are not riding for the factory Subaru team you are
>just chop liver. The press releases were more bias toward the
>Subaru Factory team than even the PR from the Subaru website.
>I really think it would benefit RA to try to be a little less
>bias toward Subarus. I assume, as always, there are politics
>involved, but it would be nice to see a Mitsubishi or a Mazda
>3 or pretty much anything else up on the website. Just my two
>cents.
>
Thats good someone else see it the way I do RA is owned by Subaru America which in my book is bad for the sport IM a subaru owner but I like to see everyone getting fair play, Look at the results in the last rally when pastrana went out no results posted ontill the rally was weel over that say something.
Pastrana is a bit like Colin McCrae Crash Crash Crash
Ken Block is a more stable driver and in the long run will do better.
 

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codriveur
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>I do not believe I am going to say this, but I agree w/
>rallynut on some of his arguments.

Well don't contradict him for god sakes or he'll delete all of his comments out of fustration, so he doesn't look foolish and the thread is useless!!

Bernie

ps Offer for conference room to consolidate sanctioning bodies is STILL good :)
 

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>>I do not believe I am going to say this, but I agree w/
>>rallynut on some of his arguments.
>
>Well don't contradict him for god sakes or he'll delete all of
>his comments out of fustration, so he doesn't look foolish and
>the thread is useless!!
>
>Bernie
>
>ps Offer for conference room to consolidate sanctioning bodies
>is STILL good :)

I see even you agree with some of my ideas...Well I have the guts say what I think ....You people over there should say what ye would like done If ye sit back and say nothing you can't expect things to change.
Rally New York is comeing up next month It will be Interesting to see what happens this time I happened to be in the US last year and there was all sorts of problems...Lack of PR I think.
Hopefully it go better this time....Good luck with it
 

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Ok Rally Nut I have said this about Rally in America since I first went to Rim in 95.....when it comes to Rally we are in the wrong country.
Next Subaru North America has been very good to US Rally at all levels over the years. They've supplied our local Rallycross with prizes and donated to CRS.

Now as for CRS it is a very differant thing from a sanctioning body. It is a group of organizers that have a pool of resources to draw from to the benefit of a small event like our SEED 9 and large ones like Rim and Ramada. Every organizer or board member gets a vote that goes from Rally-X to Pro Events like Rim. CRS will provide organizers with assitance but it is very much up to the individual to make thier event work. CRS sanctions nothing, we organizers work with which ever sanctioning body best fits the event.

Now I think I am going to hurl if I here one more it's not fair to the privateer.....where in the constitution does it say life , liberty and the ability to be competitve with a small budget. This is not directed at you specificly Rally Nut but to all the people who somehow think racing is owes them a comptitive budget.

I told this bit before on this forum: 1986 , Willow Springs....I'm pushing my $2000 8 year old Honda 125 GP bike through tech and low and behold some guy with a hired rider and a brand new B kit engined Honda RS125 he bought from a World Championship competitor for $10,000. Gee should this guy be banned or looked down on for bringing this to a local race....no he could afford it and if the 5 others of us there that day could we would have.(racing is a rich man's sport that many middle class folk participate in and are sometimes competitive)


So back to the topic:If not for Subaru the Las Vegas Region SCCA wouldn't have a Rally-X program because it was all the Sube kids , inspired by the factory cars , that were our bread and butter for the first 5 years. They sell a lot of product and get good mileage out of the marketing from Rally and we benfit with some more entries....how is this bad???

Now no attack on you intended here but you seem to have some utopian ideal of how things should work. NASA has just announced the 2wd Championship which is great and Subaru by having Pastrana on board brings Rally a higher profile, both things are good for the overall sport. Both organizations are doing good work.

Tom

PS For my own personal racing I have a whopping budget of $1500 a year. I'd rather do it for fun in a slug of a car than complian I can't afford a competitive car. I either need to make more money or be happy with what I have , which is more than any spectator is doing.
 

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>>RA NASA CRS
>>
>>In case you didn't know or couldn't be bothered to find out,
>>RA and NASA are sanctioning bodies, not organisers. CRS is
>not
>>a sanctioning body but a club comprising of some rally
>>organisers. Sheesh!
>>
>>Can't see me in your mirrors?
>>I must be in front of you!
>
>Same thing different NAME
>

No it's not!
 

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I didn't want to jump in here and say anything, but I have a question:

I didn't know Subaru own Rally America, I though Doug Havir does. Am I incorrect? Did Doug sell RA to Subaru?

Now, for an observation:

RallyNut is from a completely different culture, Ireland. Rally in Europe is completely different from rally in America. For one, Ireland doesn't have (at least as far as I know) as litigous a society as America does. Perforce, our rules are different.

RA is a privately held corporation, and can do whatever it wants. It's not a membership organization like SCCA or Nasa. RA came along and bailed the generl rally community out when SCCA kicked us to the curb. The same people are competing, working, and organizing under the new "regimes" as under the old one.

It appears that the perception is that the organizers are also the sanctioning body. CRS is exactly the same as Oregon Rally Group and Pacific Rally Group: a bunch of folks organizing event. We DO NOT sanction and insure our own events, or anyone else's events. We ORGANIZE, and that's it. The two sanctioning bodies here for stage rally are RA and Nasa. SCCA and Nasa do Rallycross (I'm not sure if RA does or not, but I think not).

And I agree, the all-Subaru show is boring. I don't want to drive a Subaru, I like my 2wd Nissan. I like the RWD Mazdas and Toyotas, the SAAB at Doo **** was AWESOME, and we coulda had a Nissan cup with the 3 Sentras we had.

But Subaru has done a lot for the American Rally Community. What privateer expects a car manufacturer to just give them a car, free and clear and totally rally prepped?? Without asking?

Sigh....
 

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>I didn't want to jump in here and say anything, but I have a
>question:
>
>I didn't know Subaru own Rally America, I though Doug Havir
>does. Am I incorrect? Did Doug sell RA to Subaru?
>
>Now, for an observation:
>
>RallyNut is from a completely different culture, Ireland.
>Rally in Europe is completely different from rally in America.
> For one, Ireland doesn't have (at least as far as I know) as
>litigous a society as America does. Perforce, our rules are
>different.
>
>RA is a privately held corporation, and can do whatever it
>wants. It's not a membership organization like SCCA or Nasa.
>RA came along and bailed the generl rally community out when
>SCCA kicked us to the curb. The same people are competing,
>working, and organizing under the new "regimes" as under the
>old one.
>
>It appears that the perception is that the organizers are also
>the sanctioning body. CRS is exactly the same as Oregon Rally
>Group and Pacific Rally Group: a bunch of folks organizing
>event. We DO NOT sanction and insure our own events, or
>anyone else's events. We ORGANIZE, and that's it. The two
>sanctioning bodies here for stage rally are RA and Nasa. SCCA
>and Nasa do Rallycross (I'm not sure if RA does or not, but I
>think not).
>
>And I agree, the all-Subaru show is boring. I don't want to
>drive a Subaru, I like my 2wd Nissan. I like the RWD Mazdas
>and Toyotas, the SAAB at Doo **** was AWESOME, and we coulda
>had a Nissan cup with the 3 Sentras we had.
>
>But Subaru has done a lot for the American Rally Community.
>What privateer expects a car manufacturer to just give them a
>car, free and clear and totally rally prepped?? Without
>asking?
>
>Sigh....

Come on open up yer eyes...Can ye not see whats going on... RA SCCA Dough Havir Subaru America Prodrive Kurt Spitzner all a branchs on the same tree.
It all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
There's some very good drivers in the US and Canada but never get a chance. It's not what they know It's who they KNOW.
I know a few IRISH drivers over there that will put any one of Subarus drivers to shame in the same CAR
 
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