[Topi]

- So, Pat's out after two transmission changes in ONE day... Remember, this is a FACTORY team. If their stuff is this bad, what do others get?

- Question; How can they sell this garbage to the public?

- I remember Lowell had FOUR transmission changes at the RIM and Eklund blew one before the rally started!

- Don't they recall cars for less?

 

[starion887]

I think they voided the warranty when they welded in the cage......so no recall!

This is an interesting question; I'd like to see if many the newer Subie cars are having trannie problems, Open, Group N, Impreza 2.5 etc..

Mark B.

 

[John Cassidy]

We've raced stock Subaru transmissions on gravel and tarmac the last year(with stock clutch) in our 1.8L and now 2.5L Impreza without any significant troubles. My guess is that with closer ratios and limited slip differentials, the tractive forces start to bring weaknesses to light very quickly.

Certainly a shame to hear that Pat's out.

Cheers! John

 

[Rich Smith]

>This is an interesting question; I'd like to see if many the
>newer Subie cars are having trannie problems, Open, Group N,
>Impreza 2.5 etc..

Mark,

Yeah. They sure don't seem to stand up to the rigors of high performance. Otherwise they appear fine for street use. So the MFG doesn't have much of an incentive to beef things up.

Here in the overly-cautious granny-driving Pacific Northwest most Subaru's are driven like Ramblers on the street by timid people who are comforted by the AWD. I know MANY timid Subie owners that love them as street cars and never admit to having any tranny problems.

I'd still like to see the repair stat's though.

Rich Smith

 

[randyzimmer]

trans problems

I had a spider gear crack - over 30 events.
Drive it like a normal person, not a complete nut.
Don't add power over 2.5 stock and don't worry.
start living for boost - take your chances.
rz

 

[John Vanlandingham]

jeeezus, Poor Pat, the only guy with real drive and talent and sunk again. Too bad he didn't read SS.com
He could have read this:?
from a real expert:

I, as well as many Subaru drivers (esp.
>rally drivers) would have to take exception to your silly
>comment about Subarus and their reliability.
>
>The engines are bulletproof and the chassis are extremely
>strong as well.
>
>If you were sliding off a cliff, would you rather be in a
>Subaru or a shitbox Golf or 323 GTX deathtrap?
>
>I certainly hope you weren't serious.
>
>You weren't even there...so don't suppose you know the
>extent of the damage to that car.
>
>I can't beleieve your lack of sympathy.

And Topi you should be recieving something like this from this Englishman for saying anything negative about subaru, because it shows disrespect for Pat's, and his crew's efforts.:

>
>Even in this last post you find time to criticise other
>peoples best efforts to compete. Thats very uncool.
>
>I also dont understand your disrespect for a particular
>brand of car, no production based car is perfect, they all
>have weeknesses that need working on. That's why you can buy
>parts to upgrade them to WRC or GroupA spec. The problem is
>to do that takes huge sums of money and an ability to source
>these parts, both these things are really dificult for club
>competitors doing this sport in a major way from their own
>pay cheque. Even so, these cars are far from junk, the
>things i do with one of these cars would make most
>manufacturers envious, they are exceptional PRODUCTION cars,
>which is why they are so popular in rally and in general
>use>
>Even in this last post you find time to criticise other
>peoples best efforts to compete. Thats very uncool.
>
>I also dont understand your disrespect for a particular
>brand of car, no production based car is perfect, they all
>have weeknesses that need working on. That's why you can buy
>parts to upgrade them to WRC or GroupA spec. The problem is
>to do that takes huge sums of money and an ability to source
>these parts, both these things are really dificult for club
>competitors doing this sport in a major way from their own
>pay cheque. Even so, these cars are far from junk, the
>things i do with one of these cars would make most
>manufacturers envious, they are exceptional PRODUCTION cars,
>which is why they are so popular in rally and in general
>use

There I guess that straighten you out you you you..
föööööörbannade finn djäääääävul faaaaaaen!


Poor Pat.

And to all you overly serious dipwads who are only slightly literate and confuse efforts to clarify your misunderstandings and projections of agressive and argumentative tendanciues onto others,
That was serious heart felt sympathy.


If YOU GUYS don't like it, to quote an old Aussie mate "Get stuffed."

Edited for horrible unforgivable lack of spelling check. The horror!

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[Matt]

>...only slightly litereate

This alone is HOURS of laughter for me. HOURS.

 

[ProRallyPix]

>Otherwise they appear fine for street use. So
>the MFG doesn't have much of an incentive to beef things up.

Gee Rich, they got a little incentive from my wife, she had a new tranmission installed in her Outback under warranty. Took them forever to diagnose the problem, local dealers aren't real quick at translating computer codes that say, "the damn transmission is broken."

She's a librarian, so I know she'd never take the car off road or abuse it hauling some broke-down rally crew off a mountain somewhere, and I can't imagine how those darn daisies get into the air cleaner.

Did you know Subaru is the best selling car in Havre, Montana?

Just call me granny,
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com

 

[Topi]

- Knight Team Ryther came to Holtville Rally Sprint with two brand new 4x4 Imprezzas they BOTH broke right the way. Yes! Tranny 2x...

- Pat broke the tranny at Rally Corona Mexico as well

- When Toyota had transmission problem (not as serious as Subaru) on '88 Celica AllTrack 4x4 they issued a recall. A friend of mine got his completly rebuilt at 88 000 miles - free.

- This is what Subaru should do.

- Talking to SCCA cone-heads in LA area tells me it take ONE missed shift to blow the tranny! And kids miss a lot of shifts.

- Is Subaru's parts div listed on NYSE? I see money here....

Q. What's Subaru drivers Hello! to each other?

A. Show as many fingers as you gone through trannies...

- High-Fives are not uncommon!

PS. I like Subaru. I like it's power, handling, interior, etc. I like relatively cheap price. I hate junk engineered transmission, weak drive shafts and '68 Datsun rear diff.

 

[148whp]

The street wrx's are having a few problems with transmissions both AT and man. but not a rampant problem. But yeah put 400hp in front of a Subaru trans and give it the worst flogging you could possibly think of (rallying) and it won?t last long, 300 is probably too much. But then again I am no expert. But that said Pat and his team get all my support! To bad this stuff happens to nice people.

 

[Pete Kuncis]

My check engine light just started to go on today in PA (350 miles from home). It only does it when I go over 73 mph though?!? I also think I've got a dead shock or two, and getting back to Boston, my brakes started to make a strange grinding sound. Sure, it's not a rallycar, but it's a '01 2.5rs.

Pete

 

[philb]

Anyone know what kind of transmission Pat was running? I would never run a regular 5MT Subaru transmission in a car approaching 300hp. I believe at the level he's at and the arena he's in you can use the 6MT six-speed or a dogbox with the right ratios. The 6MT is quite a bit beefier than the 5MT but it's certainly not indestructable.

ps. Makinen had gearbox problems at Rally Argentina

 

[jmullan]

If you can blow up two to four transmissions in one day on the street I will be duly impressed.

Yes, I would like to see Subaru make a transmission that we can all have confidence in.

 

[tifosi77]

problem is not the tranny as a whole but the shifter forks especially in the dog boxes (this includes prodrive dogbox) for whatever reason the shifter forks are really weak and are prone to breaking, two gears selected at once equalls kaboom!!

 

[John Vanos]

Pat uses a 5 speed

Edited for oopsie!

 

[Morison]

no, Pat uses a 5 spd. dog box ... it was a linkage failure in Mexico (the only factory part left on the box other than the case, and onw he has the same pieces that are in Arai's dog box.)

Part of the problem is the way dogboxes are used creats a ton of stress on the parts - but they can handle that for race distances ...

It is not uncommon to see teams change their trannys after running shakedown and usea freshly rebuilt box for the rally. It is also not uncommon to do a PLANNED transmission change during a day end 45 min service as a preventative measure.

The transmission Pat's using now seems to be quite a bit more reliable than the Prodrive dog box in any case. Not sure which one was used in Mexico.

Keith

 

[tom grossmann]

John V. I think maybe you high sided one to many Husky 450s - are you actually suggesting a manufacturer has built a sub-standard / marginal part. The Tooth Fairy , Easter Bunny and myself talked about this at length and they assured me there is no problem!
OK I talk to the Sube guys a lot as a Rallycross/sprint organizer and the trannies do not havee a good reputation with the street guys - hmmm somebody might be able to make some bucks on manufactering a bullet proof tranny.

Tom Grossmann

 

[323]

I just got a 02 WRX. I race it in PGT and I have about 100 miles of rally on it. (race and test). I have an LSD on the front, so far no problem. I did send the gears to cryogenic before I rallyed the car, and it seems to work, so far. The stock gear box is really week so you have to use with extreme caution. Use the clutch to up shift and double cutch when you down shift. I think if you don't put more than 300 hp you will be fine with a stock tany.
Who knows, my trany might blow up tomorow.

stephan

 

[johnfelstead]

>jeeezus, Poor Pat, the only guy with real drive and talent
>and sunk again. Too bad he didn't read SS.com
>He could have read this:?
>from a real expert:
>
> I, as well as many Subaru drivers (esp.
>>rally drivers) would have to take exception to your silly
>>comment about Subarus and their reliability.
>>
>>The engines are bulletproof and the chassis are extremely
>>strong as well.
>>
>>If you were sliding off a cliff, would you rather be in a
>>Subaru or a shitbox Golf or 323 GTX deathtrap?
>>
>>I certainly hope you weren't serious.
>>
>>You weren't even there...so don't suppose you know the
>>extent of the damage to that car.
>>
>>I can't beleieve your lack of sympathy.
>
>And Topi you should be recieving something like this from
>this Englishman for saying anything negative about subaru,
>because it shows disrespect for Pat's, and his crew's
>efforts.:
>
>>
>>Even in this last post you find time to criticise other
>>peoples best efforts to compete. Thats very uncool.
>>
>>I also dont understand your disrespect for a particular
>>brand of car, no production based car is perfect, they all
>>have weeknesses that need working on. That's why you can buy
>>parts to upgrade them to WRC or GroupA spec. The problem is
>>to do that takes huge sums of money and an ability to source
>>these parts, both these things are really dificult for club
>>competitors doing this sport in a major way from their own
>>pay cheque. Even so, these cars are far from junk, the
>>things i do with one of these cars would make most
>>manufacturers envious, they are exceptional PRODUCTION cars,
>>which is why they are so popular in rally and in general
>>use>
>>Even in this last post you find time to criticise other
>>peoples best efforts to compete. Thats very uncool.
>>
>>I also dont understand your disrespect for a particular
>>brand of car, no production based car is perfect, they all
>>have weeknesses that need working on. That's why you can buy
>>parts to upgrade them to WRC or GroupA spec. The problem is
>>to do that takes huge sums of money and an ability to source
>>these parts, both these things are really dificult for club
>>competitors doing this sport in a major way from their own
>>pay cheque. Even so, these cars are far from junk, the
>>things i do with one of these cars would make most
>>manufacturers envious, they are exceptional PRODUCTION cars,
>>which is why they are so popular in rally and in general
>>use
>
>There I guess that straighten you out you you you..
> föööööörbannade finn djäääääävul faaaaaaen!
>
>
>Poor Pat.
>
>And to all you overly serious dipwads who are only slightly
>literate and confuse efforts to clarify your
>misunderstandings and projections of agressive and
>argumentative tendanciues onto others,
>That was serious heart felt sympathy.
>
>
>If YOU GUYS don't like it, to quote an old Aussie mate "Get
>stuffed."
>
>Edited for horrible unforgivable lack of spelling check. The
>horror!
>
>John Vanlandingham
>Seattle, WA. 98168
>
>Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
>Black Rocket Rally Tires
>http://www.blackrockettires.com/


haha John, you are a loon.

Pat is running in the FIA GroupN Production cup, with GroupN boxes you can change any component internally, just the ratios have to stay the same.

David Higgins seemed to manage OK with his GroupN spec Impreza, winning the British Championship plus highest place GroupN on the Rally GB on numerous occasions against the worlds best Production cup cars such as the latest spec EVO's.

How many Impreza's of various specs have won national and international rallies and championships? quite a few, didnt Pat win the Canadian championship, driving a Subaru Impreza? I think so.

No vehicle, be it Mitsubishi, Subaru, DAF (your era) or whatever has indestructable components, so whats your point? If they were that shit how do these cars manage to win championships/events?

Just remind me again, what car was it that won the SCCA Pro Rally championship last year? Subaru wasnt it?

cheers again
John

 

[starion887]

Hmmmmmm...so goes another theory of a newer car up in smoke ..... it looked like a used WRX was not to 'spensive to buy and run, but I need trannie's that fail regularly like I need a .... (you fill in the blank) ....


Looks back to plan A...for Ascona A....time get serious about resurrecting the Opel ("L'il Blu"). Whatever breaks, I can fabricate stronger.

Thanks for everyone's insights and inputs.

Mark B.