Good question. Does Stig's have exactly 280hp? I heard several people talking about the difference between Stigs car and the other N cars in regard to its speed.
Brandon
Brandon
STPR horsey guesstimates
Does anyone have reasonable guesstimates regarding the horsepower and hp/weight ratios of Thumper's Open and Stig's GroupN cars? What about gearing differences? Do they both run the same size restrictor?
I ***think*** I read somewhere that Thumper beat some stage records, but can't find that info again. True/false? Who set the previous records? Were they using restrictors?
I ***think*** I read somewhere that Thumper beat some stage records, but can't find that info again. True/false? Who set the previous records? Were they using restrictors?
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Gee Jens-
Your subject line confused me.
I thought you were talking about Jen.
http://www.rally-america.com/Archives/2005/Oregon_Trail/day/data/kz100_1224.jpg
press on,
Your subject line confused me.
I thought you were talking about Jen.
http://www.rally-america.com/Archives/2005/Oregon_Trail/day/data/kz100_1224.jpg
press on,
>Does anyone have reasonable guesstimates regarding the
>horsepower and hp/weight ratios of Thumper's Open and Stig's
>GroupN cars? What about gearing differences? Do they both
>run the same size restrictor?
The open class cars are running a 34mm restrictor, while the N cars run a 32. For the thermodynamically inclined, that means that the open cars can get 12-13% more air at the limit.
>I ***think*** I read somewhere that Thumper beat some stage
>records, but can't find that info again. True/false? Who set
>the previous records? Were they using restrictors?
The previous records were, I believe, all set by Open cars with 40mm restrictors (the SCCA limit since at least 1997).
Adrian
>horsepower and hp/weight ratios of Thumper's Open and Stig's
>GroupN cars? What about gearing differences? Do they both
>run the same size restrictor?
The open class cars are running a 34mm restrictor, while the N cars run a 32. For the thermodynamically inclined, that means that the open cars can get 12-13% more air at the limit.
>I ***think*** I read somewhere that Thumper beat some stage
>records, but can't find that info again. True/false? Who set
>the previous records? Were they using restrictors?
The previous records were, I believe, all set by Open cars with 40mm restrictors (the SCCA limit since at least 1997).
Adrian
Leave it to a navigator to skirt the issue, avoid the question, and add to the confusion.
Who are those people? The chick looks like Sigourney Weaver.
Who are those people? The chick looks like Sigourney Weaver.
You're losing lots of sleep trying to find an excuse why Stig didn't win, aren't ya?
2003 (when all the "2nd-3rd string Europeans" were here):
http://www.stpr.org/stpr03/results/index.html
2005:
http://www.rally-america.com/PHPScripts/stagescore.php?y=2005&e=STPR&stage=1
Shows the times and the stage miles for each. Both events had pretty much identical conditions. Sloppy and no dust.
I cannot find a link to the stage records.
Pete
2003 (when all the "2nd-3rd string Europeans" were here):
http://www.stpr.org/stpr03/results/index.html
2005:
http://www.rally-america.com/PHPScripts/stagescore.php?y=2005&e=STPR&stage=1
Shows the times and the stage miles for each. Both events had pretty much identical conditions. Sloppy and no dust.
I cannot find a link to the stage records.
Pete
>Who are those people? The chick looks like Sigourney Weaver.
Jens:
Neither of them is your idol Stig.
The gentleman is David Sutton who is running Stig's car in the RA events this year.
The lady is Jen Horsey who has been writing the RA press releases and who last year did releases and was the on air talent for the televisions shows for the Canadian championship. She knows here rally stuff.
Doug Woods
Jens:
Neither of them is your idol Stig.
The gentleman is David Sutton who is running Stig's car in the RA events this year.
The lady is Jen Horsey who has been writing the RA press releases and who last year did releases and was the on air talent for the televisions shows for the Canadian championship. She knows here rally stuff.
Doug Woods
>You're losing lots of sleep trying to find an excuse why Stig
>didn't win, aren't ya?
Stig did win! Ask Pat and Nathalie if you don't believe me.
STPR is a series of drag races connected with hairpins. Horsepower is a big factor at that rally.
Now back to my original question..... Any guesses as to the differences between the two machines?
>didn't win, aren't ya?
Stig did win! Ask Pat and Nathalie if you don't believe me.
STPR is a series of drag races connected with hairpins. Horsepower is a big factor at that rally.
Now back to my original question..... Any guesses as to the differences between the two machines?
>>You're losing lots of sleep trying to find an excuse why
>Stig
>>didn't win, aren't ya?
>
>
>Stig did win! Ask Pat and Nathalie if you don't believe me.
>
>STPR is a series of drag races connected with hairpins.
>Horsepower is a big factor at that rally.
>
>Now back to my original question..... Any guesses as to the
>differences between the two machines?
>
Somebody with more talent than me can calculate the theoretical HP from each restrictor size. I THINK that it makes a Group N car about 270 and an open car about 310. Probably gearing is pretty well optimized in both cars given Stig has the advantage of more development that Paul. (newer car) Local knowledge probably helped.
Richard
>Stig
>>didn't win, aren't ya?
>
>
>Stig did win! Ask Pat and Nathalie if you don't believe me.
>
>STPR is a series of drag races connected with hairpins.
>Horsepower is a big factor at that rally.
>
>Now back to my original question..... Any guesses as to the
>differences between the two machines?
>
Somebody with more talent than me can calculate the theoretical HP from each restrictor size. I THINK that it makes a Group N car about 270 and an open car about 310. Probably gearing is pretty well optimized in both cars given Stig has the advantage of more development that Paul. (newer car) Local knowledge probably helped.
Richard
I'm trying to figure out how a car with a 34mm restrictor was able to beat records set by cars with 40mm restrictors? Thoughts?
If records were set with smaller restrictors, why so we have restrictors again?
If records were set with smaller restrictors, why so we have restrictors again?
>
>Now back to my original question..... Any guesses as to the
>differences between the two machines?
>
34mm is theoretically limited to 300hp, but most WRC teams get in the 330 to 340hp range. I would expect the Tiburon to making about the same, although probably a bit less torque than in the WRC car. Gearing should be equal to the Mitsu RS "low, low" set, which tops about 128mph. The car is very light, right around the 2700lb weight limit. Burke told me the car was excellent at high speed, not as good down low.
32mm, stock block cars run in the 270-280hp range. I believe homolageted min weight for the Suby is around 2800lbs, but don't quote me on that. Either way, it's very difficult to get them that low. That's why a Prodrive N10 costs $150k. According to RA scales most of the GN cars in the States are running closer to 3000lbs. Gearing should be similar (as in similarly optimized) to the Lancers and Tiburons. Most guys I've talked to say the cars puke out at 100mph, but then again I felt my open class evo did the same, so it might all be relative.
There is lotsa other differences, such as diffs, brakes, etc... that add up to a tenth here and a tenth there. SCC did a side by side comparison of a VSC GrN Suby and Havir's Open class car. Tim Oneil did the driving, and I don't remember the exact numbers, but the difference was less than five percent.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
>Now back to my original question..... Any guesses as to the
>differences between the two machines?
>
34mm is theoretically limited to 300hp, but most WRC teams get in the 330 to 340hp range. I would expect the Tiburon to making about the same, although probably a bit less torque than in the WRC car. Gearing should be equal to the Mitsu RS "low, low" set, which tops about 128mph. The car is very light, right around the 2700lb weight limit. Burke told me the car was excellent at high speed, not as good down low.
32mm, stock block cars run in the 270-280hp range. I believe homolageted min weight for the Suby is around 2800lbs, but don't quote me on that. Either way, it's very difficult to get them that low. That's why a Prodrive N10 costs $150k. According to RA scales most of the GN cars in the States are running closer to 3000lbs. Gearing should be similar (as in similarly optimized) to the Lancers and Tiburons. Most guys I've talked to say the cars puke out at 100mph, but then again I felt my open class evo did the same, so it might all be relative.
There is lotsa other differences, such as diffs, brakes, etc... that add up to a tenth here and a tenth there. SCC did a side by side comparison of a VSC GrN Suby and Havir's Open class car. Tim Oneil did the driving, and I don't remember the exact numbers, but the difference was less than five percent.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
>If records were set with smaller restrictors, why so we have
>restrictors again?
Hey Dude! Go hijack your own threads; not mine! ;-)
>restrictors again?
Hey Dude! Go hijack your own threads; not mine! ;-)
Dennis: Thanks for the clear reply.
Jimmy: See? I takes a driver to give a straight answer!
Jimmy: See? I takes a driver to give a straight answer!
Sorry, but you caused me to think and that's always a dangerous thing.
>I'm trying to figure out how a car with a 34mm restrictor was
>able to beat records set by cars with 40mm restrictors?
>Thoughts?
>
>If records were set with smaller restrictors, why so we have
>restrictors again?
Well, probably the same way the restricted 300 hp GpA cars were able to beat the 800 hp GpB cars withing 2 years of the elimination of Gp B. Engineering and development.
>able to beat records set by cars with 40mm restrictors?
>Thoughts?
>
>If records were set with smaller restrictors, why so we have
>restrictors again?
Well, probably the same way the restricted 300 hp GpA cars were able to beat the 800 hp GpB cars withing 2 years of the elimination of Gp B. Engineering and development.
I guess I didn't realize that the Buffum Tiburon had made such significant changes without Hyundai factory support. I knew he was good but wow . . .
Sorry again Jens.
Sorry again Jens.
>I guess I didn't realize that the Buffum Tiburon had made
>such significant changes without Hyundai factory support. I
>knew he was good but wow . . .
I believe in the IITTS (It Is The tires, Stupid) principle. Dumping rally tires will lower the speeds significantly.... and SAVE LIVES! Restrictors are just another "feel good" rule.
>Sorry again Jens.
That's okay. Dennis gave me the answer I was looking for. This thread can now go anywhere people want to take it.
>such significant changes without Hyundai factory support. I
>knew he was good but wow . . .
I believe in the IITTS (It Is The tires, Stupid) principle. Dumping rally tires will lower the speeds significantly.... and SAVE LIVES! Restrictors are just another "feel good" rule.
>Sorry again Jens.
That's okay. Dennis gave me the answer I was looking for. This thread can now go anywhere people want to take it.
Amother little tidbit... on Ken BLocks DC Shoes site in the rally section they have specs for his car. They claim 275bhp @ 6000rpm and 410lb/ft @ 4000rpm... Quite the torque number for a 'production based' car
>34mm is theoretically limited to 300hp, but most WRC teams get
>in the 330 to 340hp range. I would expect the Tiburon to
>making about the same, although probably a bit less torque
>than in the WRC car. Gearing should be equal to the Mitsu RS
>"low, low" set, which tops about 128mph. The car is very
>light, right around the 2700lb weight limit. Burke told me
>the car was excellent at high speed, not as good down low.
Dennis:
When Buffum ran the same Tiburon at Charlevoix in 2003 using a 34mm restrictor, he told me that the car had 295hp.
Doug Woods
>in the 330 to 340hp range. I would expect the Tiburon to
>making about the same, although probably a bit less torque
>than in the WRC car. Gearing should be equal to the Mitsu RS
>"low, low" set, which tops about 128mph. The car is very
>light, right around the 2700lb weight limit. Burke told me
>the car was excellent at high speed, not as good down low.
Dennis:
When Buffum ran the same Tiburon at Charlevoix in 2003 using a 34mm restrictor, he told me that the car had 295hp.
Doug Woods
[pre]
After converting back to hundredths, my preliminary look shows the following new class records:
Stage 2
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.18 minutes over Milner (2003)
Stage 3
Open: Choiniere by 0.09 minutes over Choiniere (1999)
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.50 minutes over Richard (2004)
Stage 4
Group N: Pastrana by 0.09 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
(by 0.04 minutes over Sprongl (2004) also)
PGT: Foust by 0.06 minutes over Macaire (2003)
Prod: Heitkamp by 1.48 minutes over Bares (2003)
G2: Bombara by 0.19 minutes over Johnson (2003)
Stage 5
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.20 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.83 minutes over McGeough (2003)
Stage 6
Open: Mitchel by 0.25 minutes over D. Higgins (2003)
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.44 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.67 minutes over McGeough (2003)
Prod: Heitkamp by 3.72 minutes over Halley (2003)
Stage 8
Open: Choiniere by 0.50 minutes over D. Higgins (2003)
Group N: Richard by 0.29 minutes over Richard (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.87 minutes over McGeough (2003)
Prod: Miller by 2.03 minutes over Halley (2003)
Stage 10
Group N: Richard by 0.18 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
(by 0.25 minutes over Lawless (2004) also)
Open: Mitchell by 0.02 minutes over Lawless (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.33 minutes over Donnelly (2000)
I think it was muddier in 2003, leading to the big gains by the Production cars.[/pre]
Peter
After converting back to hundredths, my preliminary look shows the following new class records:
Stage 2
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.18 minutes over Milner (2003)
Stage 3
Open: Choiniere by 0.09 minutes over Choiniere (1999)
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.50 minutes over Richard (2004)
Stage 4
Group N: Pastrana by 0.09 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
(by 0.04 minutes over Sprongl (2004) also)
PGT: Foust by 0.06 minutes over Macaire (2003)
Prod: Heitkamp by 1.48 minutes over Bares (2003)
G2: Bombara by 0.19 minutes over Johnson (2003)
Stage 5
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.20 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.83 minutes over McGeough (2003)
Stage 6
Open: Mitchel by 0.25 minutes over D. Higgins (2003)
Group N: Blomqvist by 0.44 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.67 minutes over McGeough (2003)
Prod: Heitkamp by 3.72 minutes over Halley (2003)
Stage 8
Open: Choiniere by 0.50 minutes over D. Higgins (2003)
Group N: Richard by 0.29 minutes over Richard (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.87 minutes over McGeough (2003)
Prod: Miller by 2.03 minutes over Halley (2003)
Stage 10
Group N: Richard by 0.18 minutes over Mitchell (2004)
(by 0.25 minutes over Lawless (2004) also)
Open: Mitchell by 0.02 minutes over Lawless (2004)
PGT: Langbein by 0.33 minutes over Donnelly (2000)
I think it was muddier in 2003, leading to the big gains by the Production cars.[/pre]
Peter
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Special Stage Forums
A forum community dedicated to North American rally car owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
