[Don Kennedy]

FYI, the Sawmill club rally in PA has filled its entry limit of 60 cars with 5 on the waiting list. This is for a rally with a total of 30 stage miles, 3 roads used repeatively! If this doesn't indicate how bad it is and how much we'll run almost anything simply because there isn't much around here? And, once again, for those of you that say 'just organize some more', I wish it were that simple.

 

[daphne]

What I want to know is, how did you convince Rick to co-drive for ya?

 

[Mad Mike]

Don said,
>And, once again, for those of you that say 'just organize
>some more', I wish it were that simple.

We all know it's not that simple and I trust we all know just how much of themselves every performance rally organizing committee member in the country pours into their event(s), but you guys have to admit you have a leg up on every other division since you can discard the "will enough cars show up to break even" concern right off the bat! I wish we could trade you some of our little used roads out here for that kind of of an assurance!

Just brainstorming here, but were there rallies that failed in the 'old days' up there due to reasons that are no longer a concern (under-subscription, whatever)? I realize a set of old problems may have been replaced by one or more new ones (urban sprawl leaps to mind), but since there's little most of us can do but offer moral support and the odd brain fart I thought I'd share some synaptic flatulence with you!

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

 

[Bill Rhodes]

This is a very good thread. It seems to me that the biggest issue isn't the availability of people ready and capable of putting on an event or potential entries. The question, in my mind, is only "where can we do it?" given the dense population of the Northeast. I think that the Northeast Region needs to brainstorm potential areas where we could hold the event. Obviously, the population centers along the seaboard knock out almost anything with 75 miles of the coast. But there are a lot of hinterlands which could hold an event.

For instance, while the Tioga State Forest and Susquehannock State Forests are used in STPR, there are four other large state forests in PA that are continguous with Tioga and Susquehannock. Together, those six forests comprise almost 2 million acres of continuous forest. Surely there are other quality roads to run in that forest complex and there must be a town other than Wellsboro in need of some event revenue. Is anyone familiar with these other forests, roads or towns in Northcentral PA? Other potential sites:

1. Allegheny National Forest. Was that where the aborted Bradford Rally was going to run?
2. The Adirondacks. If Ivan Orisek can pull off an event in the Catskills, it would seem that there are even more remote roads in the Adirondacks.
3. Southwest PA and Northwest Maryland (the MD panhandle). The Laurel Highlands have the highest mountains in PA and MD, and they are pretty rural.
4. The Green Mountains.
5. The White Mountains.
6. Northwest New Jersey (that may be a stretch)
7. Northeastern PA (such as Sullivan, Bradford, Susquehanna, Pike or Wayne Counties)

We all need to think about possible locales and then figure out who may have contacts with businessmen or politicians in those places.

Bottomline - The NEDiv needs 2 or 3 more long Coef. 3 (i.e. 75-100 mile) events, including a winter Coef. 3 event (2002 Maine Winter Rally?) and a Spring Coef. 3 tune-up for STPR. Sawmill shouldn't be a tune-up for STPR. Leave it the newbies to use for their school and for Seeds 6 through 8 only.

Also, what's the tentative word on the Berlin Rally in New Hampshire that is listed on the NEDiv calendar? Is this in the White Mountains?

Bill Rhodes

 

[Kartwheel]

>For instance, while the Tioga State Forest and Susquehannock
>State Forests are used in STPR, there are four other large
>state forests in PA that are continguous with Tioga and
>Susquehannock. Together, those six forests comprise almost
>2 million acres of continuous forest. Surely there are
>other quality roads to run in that forest complex and there
>must be a town other than Wellsboro in need of some event
>revenue. Is anyone familiar with these other forests, roads
>or towns in Northcentral PA? Other potential sites:

Maybe we could ask the folks from Salem, MO. that were involved with 100AW to be available to talk personally to prospective small town authorities. I think the biggest help would be a one-on-one talk with another municipal leader about the positive side of a rally to a small town, since they would not be "selling" anything like us. They could give some credibility to any presentation, and as we all know politicans speak their own language.

What do you think Mad Mike, or Kim? Do you think the folks at Salem might be a good "reference"?

 

[starion887]

Other portions of the state forest in NE PA have been used in the past. Tiadaghton SF NE of Williamsport was used for a few years around 1990, and there used to be HIS (Happiness Is Surise) in the Tioga SF out west of Wellsboro, near Coudersport in the late 70's-early 80's. I think Tiadaghton just didn't want the event after a few years, and HIS presented too much road and organizer use (STPR in June and HIS in Aug). I would only epxect that maybe HIS couled be revived and oply if the Tioga SF officials are not overwhlemed by the STPR road use already. I am sure the fees up there will be very steep, as I believe the are already for STPR.

With the power of the environmental clubs moving east, this is the biggest obstacle we face in VA over use of the Natl Forest roads in this area.

I would steer towards private lumber tracts rather than public lands in the present situation.

Mark Bowers

 

[Jake]

Here are some other areas to think about:
Michaeux State Forest - Near Chambersburg, PA
P.H. Glatfelter in Spring Grove, PA ( Large paper company + my home town)
Perry County offers many areas for a rally or even Potter County ( big hunting counties)

 

[Mad Mike]

Kar
>
>What do you think Mad Mike, or Kim? Do you think the folks
>at Salem might be a good "reference"?

Don't believe anything Kim says! ;-) The first words he said when I called to tell him there were new folks in the St. Louis area curious about the rallys held near Rolla in the old days was, "I'll talk to them, but I ain't organzing any rally."

Heh heh.

I'm pretty certain that attitude changed the first time he met with the good folks in Salem, Missouri! Unless the stories he's shared of his meetings before and after 100AW were blown out of all proportion (something I'm pretty certain is not true given my team's experience with the local population) a rally has never been more eagerly welcomed or received and I can't think of a more gung-ho group from which to get testimonials to share with other small towns around the country!

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

 

[Don Kennedy]

Guys just wanna have fun?
He's cheap?
I paid him handsomely?

 

[john bathgate]

guys u better be looking in the northern tier of pa not anywhere south of interstate 80 or ur gonna run into the same problems as cherokee did to many ppl want to use the forest period. some one on here like last year was saying about an event could be held in or near bradford pa. that is perfect. i also think renova pa south of old bull state park would make a great location u could have it in conjunction w/there fall foilage festival. the roads r there and there isnt much private land owners ud have to deal with.i think the community support would be there in either town being that they r in somewhat close proximinty to wellsboro and they can see for themselves what benefit the rally has had there.i believe about 2 yrs ago someone was going to hold a potato city rally in bradford but it ended up getting canceled.

 

[Tommyguns]

The rallys are not the problem. It's the 20 Evos and maxed entry list on the 1st day of registration. We need more rallys to overcome this problem. The little guys can't get in. This is the biggest problem because eventually you will have a ton of seed 7 & 8 drivers and no where for them to go!

Mike you should move to the east coast, you would have more fun!



Tom Pinkham
Master Chief
Rabid Rallyesport
#934

 

[Bill Rhodes]

Jake - I may have a connection with Glatfelter. How large of private lands are we talking near Spring Grove, PA?

Bill Rhodes

 

[Bill Rhodes]

Renovo is near the Sproul SF which is one of the four other continguous forests (with Tioga, etc.)I mentioned before. Ths others are Tiadagton (used to have a Spring rally), Elk and Black Moshannon. Renovo might be a very good community target. Given the extent of the forest and the # of well maintained forestry roads, the northcentral PA area has to be ripe for a good, long Coeff 3 that doesn't run too close (in time or location) to STPR. Who knows progressive politicians in Renovo, PA?

Bill Rhodes

 

[Mad Mike]

You don't really want another seed 3 driver up there clogging up ClubRally slots, do you? ;-) Shoot, I'm only a 29-hour tow from Rumford and a 20-hour tow to Palmdale! What the heck would I do with myself if I wasn't towing 30,000 miles a year!

On a serious note, I'd like to see NEDiv set up another ClubRally that fills from the bottom of the seeding list. It's easy to get a sanction exception for such a thing and since there's obviously a market, why not tap it? That would give some of your higher seeded drivers an opportunity to help set up, administer or simply work an event they have no opportunity to compete in.

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

 

[Jake]

To be honest, I really don't know how much land P.H. Glatfelter owns. I do feel that there would be enough for a clubrally though. P.H. is the biggest in Spring Grove. Other companies that do own land touching PH's land would go along with road use.

PH has many plots of land scattered around the area so there would be some transits ( most under 10 miles)

Let me know how you make out with your contact. I have multiple other contacts that could be of help in the area.

 

[Bill Rhodes]

Jake - E-mail me off line. [email protected]

Bill Rhodes

 

[Tommyguns]

Sawmill should be for lower seed drivers, but when you have 300 of them that are seed 7 and lower with a 60 car field...do the math.




Tom Pinkham
Master Chief
Rabid Rallyesport
#934

 

[Jon Bogert]

"And, once again, for those of you that say 'just organize some more', I wish it were that simple."

How about changing that to: "You can't rally 'til you organize"

It seems like everyone and his brother have gotten out the welder, put a cage in the wife's grocery-getter and decided to come out and do some rallyin' (just like those guys we saw on Speedvision). Let's redirect some of that enthusiasm away from driving and towards working and organizing.

The Sawmill rally school is not being held this year, but maybe that's a good thing. Why give out more rally licenses when there are not enough events for the existing competitors?

Seriously, I wonder what would happen if you put it to all the seed 7 and 8 drivers: you have to GIVE to the sport before you can TAKE from it. I wonder how many would park the car for a year, roll up their sleeves and get to work, vs. how many would say, "screw that"? I bet we'd learn a lot about the quality of growth we've had recently, instead of just emphasizing how popular rally is getting.

 

[Don Kennedy]

What do you know about Perry County? (other than it's 1 of 2 counties in PA that doesn't have any traffic lights!). Having flown over the area several times (on commerical flights) recently and passing to the south on the turnpike, I started looking at maps of the area on mapquest and I would imagine there should be some possibilities there and in Juniata and Huntington counties. I've never spent any time in any of them but one of these weekends when I have some spare time (ha ha) I plan on spending some time checking it out. Even if they ended up being turn around stages for a coef 2 who cares.

 

[Jon Bogert]

Go here for high res downloadable maps of PA counties:

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/internet/plninths.nsf/infoBPRCartoCountyType10?OpenForm

Edit: Also, I'll be out at Carlisle on May 18th for the kit car show. I'd be happy to go North a few miles into Perry on my way back.