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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why aren't they contracting out the winner of the RA series?

1) They're by far the fastest.
2) They're young enough to be fast for 20+ more years.
3) They're totally media friendly.

What up?

And isn't it kind of a burn when a brother and a sister and a few neighbourhood friends can take down the whole series on a shoestring but then they don't get "signed" when it comes time to get the factory team together. What more does one have to do?? It seems pretty lame.
 

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Global Village Idiot
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I would speculate the answer would be money.

Ken Block and Travis Pastrana are probably bringing more money to the effort - either through their sponsors or personally.
Along the same lines as to why Freddy Loix maintained top level rides in the WRC while giving only average performances - who was going to say no to Marlboro money? (average being relative to his competition at the time! I am in no way saying either Ken or Travis are average performers - although I do agree that Pat is head and shoulders above them)

This is purely speculation. I really have no idea as to the reasons - and I wouldn't expect any official reason to be forthcoming.
It's business!
 

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straight at T
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>Why aren't they contracting out the winner of the RA series?

Because Ken brings DC Shoes money and Travis brings not only money, but an image that is recognized outside of rally (and both are pretty good drivers). Pat has the talent, but he doesn't have personal sponsors who will bring the kind of money needed.

>And isn't it kind of a burn when a brother and a sister and a
>few neighbourhood friends can take down the whole series on a
>shoestring but then they don't get "signed" when it comes time
>to get the factory team together.

Since the 'factory' team is a continuation of the existing effort, what did you expect?

>What more does one have to do??

Bring money, lots of it. Preferrably other people's money.

>It seems pretty lame.

Well, its happened before, and it will happen again. You only need to look at the Sprongl brothers.

Adrian
 

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Mä meen vittu sinne!
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Someone at Subaru said, "Wow, that team we sponsor out in Vermont has an X-Games superstar and the owner of DC shoes driving under them." Someone else responded, "Why don't we throw some money at them and call it a 'factory effort' again." Someone else says, "Sounds good, start negotiating it. Now, let's figure out how we're going to sell at least one Tribeca in this nation."

At least that was my translation, but Watashiwa Nihongoga Skoshi Wakarimas.
 

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Andy , just over twenty years ago a High School buddy was prepping a Bultaco 360 for vintage motorcycle road races and asked me to ride. We were hooked up with his co-worker who was a native of Daytona Beach and even managed a 3rd place in GTO at the 24 hrs. I will never ever forget what he told me "RACING IS A RICH MAN'S SPORT"

Every time I hear or read something asking why a more deserving driver doesn't get a break I remember those words , this is business.

I can remember sitting on the grid at Willow Springs with my 8 yr old Honda 125 GP bike looking at the pole sitter who's team owner had imported a top flight World GP level Honda. He had a 45 HP bike while the rest of us were on 30 HP club level bikes....even the former Japanese National Champ.....one rider complained they bought the win , yeah and we all would have done the same if we coould.

At an SCCA club race ten years later I'm in a Showroom Stock C Miata......who should pull into the paddock?? The factory Mopar guys with the fastest Dodge "stock" Neons ever seen. How did the driver get this ride....he was a Chrysler VP

David Coultard's father paid Frank Williams 600K so David could be a Williams test driver.

NASCAR teams now hire former champions because they get a gaurented start in the first five races. New NASCAR teams buy "numbers" for the same reason.

Why do I have my road race ride....because I paid for it and do all the work on the car, as the owner driver I know of a very fast Karting kid that would be faster but he doesn't fill my needs as the "owner" of the car. (this is my usual absurd simplification but you get the point)

There is simply no such thing as a "deserving" driver. Drivers are hired because the fit the teams needs best, same as mechanics and sponsors.This is the cruel truth.

Tom
 

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The amazing thing to me is that they are running their cars in open class, but explicitly exluding open class from the contingency program. Looks like they aren't sure they are good enough to handle the competition that a national open class contingency program draws (and I'm not talking about myself). Maybe it would end-up something like what happened to them in Group N last year. The funny thing is that SOA doesn't seem to be satisfied with just any Subaru winning, it has to be "their" Subaru team that wins!

I am still grateful to Subaru for supporting rallying in this country.

Edit to add: I'll be cheering for Pastrana if he can make it to the WRC. I'm happy to see Block succeed too, but I bet they would progress even faster if good open class competition was encouraged by the contingency program. Competition makes people even better not worse.
 

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Right Side Ballast
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If talent were the only -- or even the prime -- criterion for making it to the top, every top-level form of racing would have an entirely different lineup. That's not to take anything away from the talent at the top. But every fledgling pro who wants to rise to the top of his (or her) form of motorsport learns that without the ability to bring money to the table -- or incredible luck -- no amount of talent will get them there.

The formula is something like:
Talent
Then money
Then more talent
Then more money.....ad infinitum

Even at the top, if a driver loses his ability to attract money (keep the sponsor happy) he's outa there.

Dick
 

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Couch rallyist!
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Wow, talk about beating a dead horse!

I've honed my sentiment on this down to one short, concise statement:

Motorsport sponsorship is a business, not a brotherhood.

Ok, this thread can rest in peace now... ;)
 

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R3 Slippy
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Try taking it this way:

Maybe SRTUSA doesn't want to take the money away from the privateer teams running GpN. What is the point of Subaru offering a bunch of contingency to attract competitors, and then take it all back by winning? By moving TP and KB to Open, more Subaru money can be given to privateers via contingency, and Subaru gets to dominate another class under a 'factory' name. Pretty smart move, if you ask me.

Chris Gilligan
#27
 

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Travis lives in the USA and brings a prestige element outside of rally. Subaru USA has no "manufacturer" competition, either, so they do not need to bring in the ultimate best in available "talent".
(like some name Brit or Finn or even Pat, Thumper or JB/ Rod Millen--either of whom will still show you a thing or two about rally driving)

Subaru Canada should (and used to)sponsor Pat.
 

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This could be fun. Subaru Rally team will be the major pressence with the fancy trucks and all that.
They can supply the banners for victory lane even though it probably wont be any of their drivers on the podium.
I hope some of the other NAME drivers can afford to show up this year.
I think Rallying in the US just took a major downer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I actually think it's probably more politics than business. Or at least an indiactor of a myopic business vision.

Good buisness might be earning respect from the FIA and having various rounds of the WRC apeparing in the USA. Nothing wrong with a bit of full-on international attention and all its accoutrements.

While I understand that politics and small buisness will always play a significant role, it's discouraging for this sport to have NOT ONE potential progression path to the top. There's not even a hope for any raw talent alone to go anywhere. Even if everyone else pays their way in the door the proven fastest driver should have support from he rest of 'sport' to get him/her to the highest level of international competition.

If there were some kind of formalized accounting mechanism I'd be willing to throw in a couple hundred bux (provided 100 hundred others did too) to send our fastest off to compete in at least ONE PWRC event.


FWIW At least Subaru of Canada DID send the fastest driver in Canada to the PWRC in 03.
 

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What I am getting sick of is the whole jump in with lots of money and rise up fast being billed as the next great thing, get thrown lots of Subarus/ Mitsubishis money and just disappear when things get tough. All of a sudden they are to good to spend their own money to drive. Long term benefit to the sport None. Just a blip on the radar what ever happened to so and so. But hey, they had lots of fun for a little while. Sorry, not buying it I will when they are still in the sport fighting tooth and nail to get to the top 4 years from now when they don’t have a ride and everything is doom and gloom. For now Pat is my hero willing to do whatever is necessary to get to the top not just when the going is easy.
 

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>If there were some kind of formalized accounting mechanism I'd
>be willing to throw in a couple hundred bux (provided 100
>hundred others did too) to send our fastest off to compete in
>at least ONE PWRC event.


>FWIW At least Subaru of Canada DID send the fastest driver in
>Canada to the PWRC in 03.


I too, would throw a hundred into the pot. The problem is that to send Pat to Mexico, we would need more like 400 people to throw a hundred in. No sense in running the event on the cheap. To go and be noticed it has to be done right.

I am more disappointed with Subaru Canada pulling out of rallying in Canada at the end of the season in 2004. Disappointed but not surprised as they were the only manufacturer supporting the series.

I wonder what it cost Pat to run the entire RA series last year? Would 400 people throwing a hun in the pot cover the costs of Pat running the series this year? Probably not, even for Pat, who seems to be able to do more for less that most everyone else/
 

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>
>>If there were some kind of formalized accounting mechanism
>I'd
>>be willing to throw in a couple hundred bux (provided 100
>>hundred others did too) to send our fastest off to compete
>in
>>at least ONE PWRC event.
>
>
>>FWIW At least Subaru of Canada DID send the fastest driver
>in
>>Canada to the PWRC in 03.
>
>
>I too, would throw a hundred into the pot. The problem is that
>to send Pat to Mexico, we would need more like 400 people to
>throw a hundred in. No sense in running the event on the
>cheap. To go and be noticed it has to be done right.
>

No one is gonna get noticed in a PWRC car, ever.

To get noticed you need one of last years WRC rig's, and then, you would need 2,000 people to chip in a hundo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
or 200 people @ 200 bux. Anyway, I would be happy to pay our sanctioning body an extra 200 bux `per year if they would send the winner of our championship to a meaningful international event. This represents about 5% of my rally budget and would be money well spent. we have about 200 license holders - i think.

edit: provided they had a demonstrated financial need.
 

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>or 200 people @ 200 bux. Anyway, I would be happy to pay our
>sanctioning body an extra 200 bux `per year if they would send
>the winner of our championship to a meaningful international
>event. This represents about 5% of my rally budget and would
>be money well spent. we have about 200 license holders - i
>think.


That's only 40 grand. That will get you a Fiesta ST GP N Rental for one event.

80-100k will get you a PWRC car. But no-one cares about PWRC. It is for gentleman drivers with fun to be had and monies to spare. (look at the past 5 champions.. where are they now?)

A nice 05' spec focus is gonna set you back $165,000-$200,000 for one event. Then someone might notice, but the driver is still going to need to bring some serious $$$$$ to drive if they like him/her.

It is ALL money, thats ALL that matters.
 
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