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don't cut
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Many people keep harping on how the TV exposure and the spectators in the woods are what a sponsor is paying for. Hockey puck to use an expression I picked up in the UP. Don't know what it means, but it sounds good.

Any body else seen the ad for some oil aditive or hair resotration product or what event that a Club Racer is airing on various cable stations. Oh wait the hair restoration is an ex-Indy driver. The other producet is a genuine SCCA Club racer who drives a Nissan product of some sort if the patches on his driving suit are to be believed. This is how a sponsor gets their money's worth.

Any body else notice the Johnson brothers Neon on display last October in Detroit? That is what their sponsor pays for. Or my rally car running a gimmick rally at the last Texas region race? Or circling the track at lunch? That is exposure.

1000 people watching for 30 seconds at Brockway or any other spectator point. Inconcequential! 5000 or so walking by for hours in Ellington MO at the ClubRally National Championship, not bad.

We don't need specators.
Richard
 

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don't cut
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That would work for me.:+ This is the closest I canget to a dirty old man smirk. Well maybe this one}>

At any rate, I guarantee the one person that gets Subaru more exposure in the US in Lance Armstrong. Next may be Chris Flemming. Extra credit for any one who knows who Chris is.
Richard Miller
 

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We don't need specators.

It is too late!

The towns that hold the rallies sure like them. Wellsboro, a sleepy little town and nearly every hotel room is booked in a 20 mile radius. The gas stations, supermarkets, resturaunts, etc. will also benefit. I imagine this aspect makes it easier for the organizers to convince towns to allow a rally to happen (?)


Also a sponsor gets more than just the spectators seeing the car for 30 seconds. They spend time circulating the cars at parc expose, service, the car gets a lot of exposure on the road while being trailered to the event. A spectator that pushes your car out of a ditch may remember the logo that was in their face as they were pushing:+

You have to put effort and money into PR/Marketing, you only get return if you put something in. The manufacturers put a lot of money and effort into it (i.e. paying for the TV show, etc.) and they get a lot out of it (at least they hope)

I can't count how many times I have seen drivers get out of their car and be totally stoked at how many spectators are out there, so I can't imagine that everyone wants to get rid of them


I don't know why I am defending spectators, my life would be easier without them too }>
 

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>We don't need specators.
>
>It is too late!

Never too late. Although I do agree its not in the best interest of the sport to go to non spectated events again. But the days of spectators running rampant have to end. We've been very lucky before that there wasn't a big problem previously. The problem with spectators has existed for a while, nobody wanted to rock the boat and left it alone too long. LSPR 2001 at Brockway was LUCK. If a car had an accident or went off WHERE Jim Anderson did in 1998, Sawmill would have been the 2nd spectator incident.

>The towns that hold the rallies sure like them. Wellsboro, a
>sleepy little town and nearly every hotel room is booked in
>a 20 mile radius. The gas stations, supermarkets,
>resturaunts, etc. will also benefit. I imagine this aspect
>makes it easier for the organizers to convince towns to
>allow a rally to happen (?)

Somehow they had rallies before spectators were officially sanctioned. Early 1990's had plenty of events.

>Also a sponsor gets more than just the spectators seeing the
>car for 30 seconds. They spend time circulating the cars at
>parc expose, service, the car gets a lot of exposure on the
>road while being trailered to the event. A spectator that
>pushes your car out of a ditch may remember the logo that
>was in their face as they were pushing:+
Most of the people in the Parc Expose are Competitors and crew for the competitors.

I've been at the green where it was totally jam packed with people. As the cars left, the crowd slowly dissapated. Some of that was spectators leaving, but in my opinion most of the people were watching their car leave and then leaving themselves.


>You have to put effort and money into PR/Marketing, you only
>get return if you put something in. The manufacturers put a
>lot of money and effort into it (i.e. paying for the TV
>show, etc.) and they get a lot out of it (at least they
>hope)
True enough. But the exposure at ProRally's is so tightly controlled that very very few people are benefiting.

>I can't count how many times I have seen drivers get out of
>their car and be totally stoked at how many spectators are
>out there, so I can't imagine that everyone wants to get rid
>of them
If I'm stuck or need a tire changed, they are welcome. Quite a bit of the time I get tired of having to slow down so I don't prove Darwin right.


Fast guys at the front see a very different view of spectators than the guy 40th and later on the road.
 

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ok I will weigh in as an organizer of a little Rallysprint: Pro-Rally spectators yes , Club Rally no thanks. As an organizer I do not want to deal with people who lost the gene pool lottery. I don't like being made to feel like some out of line hard arse , because I do not want you to get killed. If I had a venue that I could seperate people from cars then fine. CRS's upcoming Santa Maria Rallysprint will be at a dirt oval - this is a great place for spectators. An ORV park fine but out in the woods , no thanks we have enough work to do for the event itself. If someone reeealy wants to spectate at a Club event then I will give them a spot to work that has good spectating and doesn't require to much work.

Tom
 

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>
>Somehow they had rallies before spectators were officially
>sanctioned. Early 1990's had plenty of events.

Yes but now the rallies are bigger and intrude more and the town got a taste of the money coming in and associate the rally with the added income. And all the better for them to get more excited when the rally circus comes to town
>

>Most of the people in the Parc Expose are Competitors and
>crew for the competitors.

I dissagree, maybe at a few parc exposes, but in at least Rim, Maine, STPR I think there many more spectators

>
>I've been at the green where it was totally jam packed with
>people. As the cars left, the crowd slowly dissapated. Some
>of that was spectators leaving, but in my opinion most of
>the people were watching their car leave and then leaving
>themselves.


I have seen the opposite, but a lot of the people are towns people and likely don't go to the woods
>
>

>True enough. But the exposure at ProRally's is so tightly
>controlled that very very few people are benefiting.

Is it? I only see the TV being controlled, which I think is reasonable since the manufacturers are paying for it, after all that is their marketing scheme. There are other ways to get exposure besides the TV package, you just have to want it bad enough and be willing to divert some of your (or your sponsors)time and money to get it. Be creative.
>
>
>Fast guys at the front see a very different view of
>spectators than the guy 40th and later on the road.

That I believe ;)
 

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>>
>>Somehow they had rallies before spectators were officially
>>sanctioned. Early 1990's had plenty of events.
>
>Yes but now the rallies are bigger and intrude more and the
>town got a taste of the money coming in and associate the
>rally with the added income. And all the better for them to
>get more excited when the rally circus comes to town

I think the rallies themselves are about the same as they were in the early 1990's. Many routes are almost exact for the last 10 years. The Organisers have chosen to make the events more spectator friendly/visible, but for the typical competitor the event itself remains fairly constant.
 

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Richard,

I hope and pray you are just kidding or we are in deeper trouble than I thought we were.

Trevor,

Any kind of a rally related competition on an oval is a damn travesty please come back to your senses.

Cheers

M.Samli
 

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Black River Stages has had a portion of the first stage (run 3 times) through a dirt speedway. There are 2 or 3 concentric rings (dirt, right now) that the course weaves through. That lasts about a mile, then it plunges into the woods and fields behind the track. It's great for the crew, since they can service the vehicle in the parking lot and then come out to watch the car for about a mile, and it's ok for the driver, since it's still a technical challenge and it's only for a mile.

Competitors may not like "super special" type stages, but they're a small price to pay to make the spectators (and crew!) happy in a safe way.

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland/rally
 

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no spectators on public lands? yes that whould go over just great. I think there is always going to be spectators. you just have to deal with it.
 

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Open AWD Extraordinaire!
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>no spectators on public lands? yes that whould go over just
>great. I think there is always going to be spectators. you
>just have to deal with it.

The door swings both ways - unless spectators respect the authority of the rally mangement, and workers, there won't be a rally to spectate.

I'm sick and tired of the entitlement that certain groups of spectators display. We (the competitors, crew, organizers) dont "have to deal with it" if we just don't go, don't organize, and don't work at the events. There won't be an event for you folks to watch.

So please, be curteous, obey the marshals, and stand where you're told. If there are any problems at STPR, I'm sure that it's going to give serious doubt as to the control of events like Maine. This is a turning point, folks. Your actions dictate the future of widespread spectating at these sorts of events.
 

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don't cut
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
>Richard,
>
>I hope and pray you are just kidding or we are in deeper
>trouble than I thought we were.
Kidding about what? Subaru and Mitsuibishi do not need the local on stage spectators to make the program worth while to them. None of my partial sponsors do either.

>Trevor,
>
>Any kind of a rally related competition on an oval is a damn
>travesty please come back to your senses.
An oval dirt track would be perfect for a RallyCross. You do understand this would not be racing around the oval. OFPR has had a sort of super special at the local dirt track in Bemidji. Worked great. I think I still have mud from it under my car from 2 years ago.

Richard

>
>Cheers
>
>M.Samli
 

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>Richard,
>
>I hope and pray you are just kidding or we are in deeper
>trouble than I thought we were.
>
>Trevor,
>
>Any kind of a rally related competition on an oval is a damn
>travesty please come back to your senses.
>
>Cheers
>
>M.Samli

Mustafa,

Don't quite know where that came from.

I do advocate a Couple of super special stages with easy viewing for the spectators.

Going around in a circle lap after lap? If I wanted to do that I'd get a sprint car.
 

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>no spectators on public lands? yes that whould go over just
>great. I think there is always going to be spectators. you
>just have to deal with it.

A textbook example of the attitude that makes me agree that we dont need spectators. You have it backwards, it is YOU that has to just deal with it if no spectator events is what is required for stage rally to continue.
 

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don't cut
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just for being a smart ass, where does his car appear that should get him lots of credit with Subaru?
Richard
 

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I have been spectating for years and have never had a close call. I do have respect for my personal safety and those around me. I also have respect for the event and everyone involved. I agree 100% that others should as well. what gets me pissed off is the attitude on BOTH sides about this whole thing. I have seen enough stupid people around these events to not be suprised by what happened at sawmill. and regardless of what witnesses/friends/etc may say, the 2 that were hit by cars there should NOT have been standing where they were. Unfortunately, they were and the tragic events have unfolded to spill over into STPR. I am going to wellsboro this weekend, like I have for the past decade + and I will spectate safely. and I will be more aware of what others are doing as well. this HAS GOT to go off without any more incidents.
 

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and
regardless of what witnesses/friends/etc may say, the 2 that
were hit by cars there should NOT have been standing where
they were.[/i]


How do you know?

I almost got hit at STPR at the water crossing standing behind the magic tape where I was told by marshals a few years ago. The car skipped accross the water and went up on the bank and then hit the tow truck that had someone sitting in the back. If it had hit me, it would have hit about 20 other people as well! There is no 100% safe place to stand! The fact that you have never had a close call is just luck and odds
 
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