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Sucker for good roads
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I believe that your BEST event in the last 6 months counts. So having had a bad Wild West would do nothing at all to hurt you if you had a good Lake Superior, for example, after it.

They calc your Speed Factor as stated above for each event, then the Speed Ranking is the compiled list of drivers in order of their best Speed Factor from events within the last six months.

For now I believe they're using more than 6 months data to get the list filled out. There are also provisions for meeting the other issues that will come up: methods for getting ranked prior to ever running a Pro event, methods of staying ranked after not having done an event in 6 months (your Factor is penalized), etc.
 

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How about raising the minimum stages to say... 10 or 12. About a rally's worth. Maybe use a maximum stage count, as well, in a FIFO system. Then old stage times would start to be negated as more stages are run.
Then drop the bottom 10% and the top 10%. Using a % instead of a small fixed number would allow a better overall average if a small amount of stages are run or a large amount of stages are run.
 

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>How about raising the minimum stages to say... 10 or 12.
>About a rally's worth. Maybe use a maximum stage count, as
>well, in a FIFO system. Then old stage times would start to
>be negated as more stages are run.
>Then drop the bottom 10% and the top 10%. Using a % instead
>of a small fixed number would allow a better overall average
>if a small amount of stages are run or a large amount of
>stages are run.

The problem becomes trying to keep track of this. It has to have taken hundreds of hours to generate the current list.
 

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In my case I think the system did a fine job placing me right around the people I tend to be close to on real stage times.

The system must be using more than the last 6 months of data as the only SCCA event I did in the last 6 months was not my best, infact I did 3 SCCA events this year, one that went very well and two with car problems (broke a center diff on 1st stage OR-Trail so only 2wd, off the road one stage at WW and 3 flats on other stages at WW)

Over all I do not think I would gain or lose a full minute to the people just above me or just below me - what more could I ask for?

Derek
 

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Left seat and not British!
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785 Posts
RE: Speed Factors formula from the rules

I suppose I'm missing a technicality, but can someone tell me why Sno*Drift should use SpeeedFactor when the 2003 rule book does not go into effect until 2/25/03? Sno*Drift (and 100AW) should run seeds, a la 2002...right? Or did the modification put a start date on it that overrides the start date of sections 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10, and 11 of the 2003 rule book?

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.
 

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just another old phart
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
RE: Speed Factors formula from the rules

Good point Kim,

I was in no way making an official post of the start order or intimating that this is what it will actually be. It was just to show how the entries are ordered by the new rules. Sorry if it read that way, I'll change the disclaimer.

Kent Gardam
 

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RE: Speed Factors formula from the rules

Actually, I believe that Speed Factors have been in use for the last year or two, at least at the "pro" level. 2003 is simply the first year that the formula has been published. (Publishing is a good thing.) John McArthur could probably give you more insight on that.

John
 

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Faster !!!!
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But come on folks, get serious !!!!

Yes, the math they are using is well defined ?
But as has been clearly been pointed out, apparently
(based on what Daphne said) if you run more stages your
speed rating is somehow higher ???
(this doesn't seem to apply to all of the "odd" ratings ... hmmmm )

SOME VERY SLOOOOWWWWWW COMPETITORS ARE WAY TOO HIGH ON THE LIST.
Something is wrong with this system.
Should I (we) be writing the PRB about this ???
(before the season is half way over)

It's not difficult at all to send them excerpts of results
with specific names pointed out to show how much slower they
are than their "speed factors" would have you believe.

Just stoking up the fire a bit . . .

}>
 

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RE: Speed Factors formula from the rules

Our Supps indicate start order will be base (in part) on last years championship points...

Look for something similiar to above with the top guys "drawn" based on their points from last year.

Mike
 

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I am not here anymore
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That's because I was simply answering the question of the relationship between the SpeedRanking and the start order.

I see that this thread has really grown since last night, so I hope someone else has explained how the SpeedFactor is determined.

alan
 

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OK, a little more explaination....

Here's the thing. If you run a lot of events and finish, even though you are slow, you are likely to get a better speed rating because many of the faster guys will DNF. Hence you will be compared to slower drivers on the stage. Averaging out the speed rating per event will benefit the tortoise, not the hare.

The law of large numbers simply shows that if you don't run a lot of events, those abnormal stages or events will factor far more into your speed rating than if you ran a lot of events. (Duh!) So, the penalty for a bad stage or too is significant. But running a lot of events means the impact of the bad stages is minimized.
 

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This looks like a seeding system that has good potential once it matures and evolves.

The biggest problem that I see with it now is that it is used to rank DRIVERS, whereas the speed factors were actually achieved by DRIVER/CAR combinations.

In other words, if a driver has a certain speed factor based on his stage times in an EVO 6, how does the organizer seed that same driver if he enters in a production car? Conversely, what do you do with the driver who is at the bottom of the list and has found enough money to buy an EVO 6?

What happens if a top driver from Europe who is not on the list (such as Kankkunen) enters an event?

Doug Woods
 

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RE: OK, a little more explaination....

That doesn't appear to be what's happening, however...

This definitely appears to be event specific. Just looking back at some of the aforementioned names and randomly looking at results, it looks like Wild West, for some reason, was exceptionally favorable to the non-forerunners in the event, for whatever reason. It could be because of mechanical problems or penalties (do they count?) with the top runners, or it might be the characteristics of the race itself, but obviously the results at Wild West give a distinct rating advantage to the folks running below the top 5 or so than any other race, by a distinct margin.

Maybe more people should run Wild West next year - or maybe it was just the luck of the draw!
 

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Four tree two remember Andrew
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>What happens if a top driver from Europe who is not on the
>list (such as Kankkunen) enters an event?

Why, he starts at the front of the pack, of course.

Wilson
 

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1973 WRC POR
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>>What happens if a top driver from Europe who is not on the
>>list (such as Kankkunen) enters an event?
>
>Why, he starts at the front of the pack, of course.

Wilson:

That is logical and where he should start. However, one of the previous posts in this thread indicated that:

"The SpeedRanking chart supercedes all the old seeding system for determining the start order only."

That is why I asked the question.

Doug Woods
 

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straight at T
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>
>"The SpeedRanking chart supercedes all the old seeding
>system for determining the start order only."
>
>That is why I asked the question.
>

The Steward can (and should) make exceptions to the start order, so starting positions can be adjusted. An FIA seeded driver does (can?) get an automatic speed rating of 0.95 because of the FIA seed (2.2.B.3.d).

BTW. Calculating and maintaining SpeedFactors and SpeedRanking (aren't they silly names?) would appear to be a nice retirement project for someone... (I tried calculating a couple for my drivers, not fun).

Adrian

All right, I fixed the typos...
 

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just another old phart
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
RE: Sno*Drift Start Order by seeding and classes

I was asked by a CRS if I would resort the order I posted based upon seeding and classes just for comparison purposes. Here it is (as before, completely unofficial, yada, yada, yada):

SpeedFactor Seed Driver Class Car

0.95 FIA Tapio Laukkanen O Impreza
1.00 0 Mark Lovell O WRX
0.96 0 Seamus Burke O EVO 6.5
0.95 0 Jonny Milner N WRX
0.98 1 Ramana Lagemann O WRX
0.91 1 Jon Kemp O Quattro
0.85 1 Steve Gingras O WRX
0.89 1 Henry Krolikowski N Impreza
0.93 2 Tim O'Neil O Focus
0.83 2 Gail Truess O 323 GTX
0.92 2 Shane Mitchell N Impreza
0.90 2 Mark Utecht N WRX
0.88 3 Paul Dunn O EVO 4
0.84 3 Dennis Martin O EVO 4
0.83 3 Chris Gilligan O Eclipse
0.87 3 Wyeth Gubelmann N WRX STI
0.84 3 Mark Cox N EVO 4
0.83 3 Russ Hodges N Impreza
0.84 3 Don Jankowski G5 Neon SRT4
0.81 3 Robert Olson G5 911
0.75 3 Brian Vinson G5 Neon SRT4
0.86 3 Matt Johnson G2 GTI
0.84 3 Eric Burmeister G2 Protégé
0.83 4 Dave LaFavor PGT Talon
0.75 4 Scott Harvey PGT Talon
0.83 5 Daniel Malott O Talon
0.78 5 Michael Cienkosz O Eclipse
0.76 5 JB Niday O Impreza
0.75 5 Mike Purzycki O Jeep CJ8
0.74 5 John Rek O Audi S2
0.72 5 Carlos Lopez O Talon
0.81 5 Eric MaCaire N Audi TT
0.80 5 Johnathon Bottoms PGT 2.5 RS
0.79 5 Bruce Davis PGT Eclipse
0.78 5 Thanasi Samaras PGT Talon
0.77 5 Roland McIvor PGT Eclipse
0.76 5 Tom Young G5 Neon
0.75 5 Jim Cox P Chevy S10
0.73 5 Dave Johnson P Neon
0.81 5 Chris Whiteman G2 Neon SXT
0.79 5 Phil Schmidt G2 Toyota MR2
0.74 5 Art Burmeister G2 GTI
0.76 5 Robert Cutler
0.79 6 David Cizmas G2 GTI
0.69 6 Jake Himes P Sentra
0.72 6 Mike Merbach P GTI
0.65 7 Brian Dondlinger G2 Jetta
0.62 7 Bruce Eddy G2 Neon
0.56 7 Russ Rosendale G2 Golf
0.65 7 Pete Hascher P Sentra SER
0.70 8 Greg Askin O Audi 80
0.61 8 Brian Rehbein O Laser
0.61 8 Daniel Dondzik N Impreza
0.61 8 Andrew Tilston PGT Audi TT
0.62 8 Joel Sanford G2 Cavalier
0.62 8 John Cirisan G2 GTI
0.61 8 Kevin Wesley G2 Neon
0.61 8 Karen Purzycki G2 Fiesta
0.67 8 Eric Heitkamp P Acura RSX


Kent Gardam
 
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