I attended STPR on sat and thought the way the spectator points were ran was O.K. The things i got really mad at were the marshalls, they were way too power hungry. There were families there with very young children and they were using a tone of voice that was not needed. It also took me an hour to get out of the stage after the sweep car went through because the marshalls thought it was still unsafe. I feel that the workers and the new marshalls were very untrained and did a terrible job. This will be the last rally that i will attend that attains to SCCA. I feel that spectating will become a challenge, not enjoyment.
Spectating blows now!
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Other than complaining... what are your suggestions. This is the reality of spectating rally in the US now. Get used to it. If this is the way to keep the insurance... so be it. But if you have something to contribute that is not complaint... SPEAK UP.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
> This will be the last
>rally that i will attend that attains to SCCA.
Good! Don't come back. You aren't doing me any favors by coming. At least to spectate. Come work service or be a marshal. Spectating is a bore no matter the sport. Do it, don't just watch it.
Richard Miller
>rally that i will attend that attains to SCCA.
Good! Don't come back. You aren't doing me any favors by coming. At least to spectate. Come work service or be a marshal. Spectating is a bore no matter the sport. Do it, don't just watch it.
Richard Miller
The rally happened. It stayed mostly on schedule. The competition was fair and unhampered by bureaucratic or procedural bullbleep. The only stage lost was due to queestionable judgement by a competitor, not the behavior of you and your fellow vandals. I'd say STPR was a major success under very difficult circumstances. I think you've confused all competitors and organizers with someone who cares if you ever show at another rally, although you will certainly be welcome as either worker or (well-behaved) spectator.
I've heard several stories from competitors about how their first exposure to the sport was as a spectator, and it was a positive experience that got them hooked on the rally. Most people aren't going to work a rally before at least watching one.
I'm not making an opinion on STPR, as I wasn't there, but the sport needs to be considered as a whole. Without spectators first having a positive experience from the event...where will all the future drivers, marshalls, and volunteer workers come from?
Also, I'm glad to hear someones opinion about what they did or did not like about the event. Even if he doesn't know how to fix it. I would rather read one side of the conversation rather than nothing at all. If people aren't sharing their personal thoughts on the matter, then we have a real problem.
Ryan
Edit: fixed some typos
I'm not making an opinion on STPR, as I wasn't there, but the sport needs to be considered as a whole. Without spectators first having a positive experience from the event...where will all the future drivers, marshalls, and volunteer workers come from?
Also, I'm glad to hear someones opinion about what they did or did not like about the event. Even if he doesn't know how to fix it. I would rather read one side of the conversation rather than nothing at all. If people aren't sharing their personal thoughts on the matter, then we have a real problem.
Ryan
Edit: fixed some typos
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1,368 Posts
This will be the last
>rally that i will attend
Did you go to the ticket office and get your money back?
>rally that i will attend
Did you go to the ticket office and get your money back?
Without
>spectators first having a positive experience from the
>event...where will all the future drivers, marshalls, and
>volunteer workers come from?
>Ryan
First heard about rally via Boy's Life magazine. Same story that Tim Winker read too. First went to a rally as a competitor. It was a hare and hounds event. Went to my first Pro Rally as a paying service crew in about 1979. Worked a TSD checkpoint or 5 in the 70's. Ran gimmick rallys. Worked at scoring crew for Big Bend Bash and Chisum Trail events. Ran my first ProRally as a competitor in 1981. I finally actually spectated at Gold Rush some time in the late 80's or early 90's. But to be a spectator we had to hide in a real estate office so as to not get drafted to work. Never have spectated again except when we were crashed out. New competitors will follow the same path. Hear about the sport via TV now days since no one remembers how to read. Then find out how to participate. Spectating is not participating and is also boring as hell.
Richard
>spectators first having a positive experience from the
>event...where will all the future drivers, marshalls, and
>volunteer workers come from?
>Ryan
First heard about rally via Boy's Life magazine. Same story that Tim Winker read too. First went to a rally as a competitor. It was a hare and hounds event. Went to my first Pro Rally as a paying service crew in about 1979. Worked a TSD checkpoint or 5 in the 70's. Ran gimmick rallys. Worked at scoring crew for Big Bend Bash and Chisum Trail events. Ran my first ProRally as a competitor in 1981. I finally actually spectated at Gold Rush some time in the late 80's or early 90's. But to be a spectator we had to hide in a real estate office so as to not get drafted to work. Never have spectated again except when we were crashed out. New competitors will follow the same path. Hear about the sport via TV now days since no one remembers how to read. Then find out how to participate. Spectating is not participating and is also boring as hell.
Richard
i think the big problem..Teamhella had was becose the securety guys were rude...can you imagine if they were Cops ??
i totaly agree...there is no need to be rude..but that's the kind of powertrip those guys get once they start there job ? specialy in the US ?i dont know why?.
rally spectator are not tripout kids going to woodstock ? they understand.... no need to yell or be rude to make them understand.
Wen im volontering im always nice and people listen...
Wen nice people tell somthing...i listen...
If the guy is rude or yell at me for no reason? He can go [email protected]# H*& S?&* !
Alain Lavoie
24Rallyteam
http://www.abikeonline.com/24rallyteam/
i totaly agree...there is no need to be rude..but that's the kind of powertrip those guys get once they start there job ? specialy in the US ?i dont know why?.
rally spectator are not tripout kids going to woodstock ? they understand.... no need to yell or be rude to make them understand.
Wen im volontering im always nice and people listen...
Wen nice people tell somthing...i listen...
If the guy is rude or yell at me for no reason? He can go [email protected]# H*& S?&* !
Alain Lavoie
24Rallyteam
http://www.abikeonline.com/24rallyteam/
Let me tell you again. As i stated before i thought that the Spectator areas were ran O.K. since it was a new trial and error setup with all the extra marshalls and workers. I do understand that spectating has changed for good from what happened at Sawmill. What i am pissed about is the powertrip all the workers had, they were freakin swearing and yelling when there were mothers with their kids there. Atleast Daman understands what im talkin about. I do like to work Rallys, I have before, but i also love to SPECTATE. Oh yea, thanks for the little comment about the ticket office thing, that was real funny! NOT. The next rally that will be near me will be BLack River stages. I do know that is a Club event, so i might go and check it out.
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Having worked spectator control at a few rallies (though not STPR), I can say that we do often run into people who are not so easy to work with. You are right, 97% of the spectators are great, they do what you ask, and just enjoy the event the best they can. However, there are always others that think they know best, that they can look out for their own safety, and they will do as they wish. These are the people that cause the most trouble.
I don't condone swearing, yelling, etc. However, if you are responsible for keeping people safe, than you do what you can to get them to listen. If cursing is what it takes to get the person to understand the severity of the cause, than sometimes the offender is more apt to listen (though oftentimes not, it just ignites the situation).
I think that nowadays spectators will be a little more understanding that if spectator control workers are not comfortable with the safety of the spectator area, that the stage WILL be cancelled. In the past, that was typically an idle threat (unless it was really bad), but given the state of rally today, that will be the absolute rule.
By the way, all of the problem spectators I've dealt with are typically rally fans, people who surf specialstage.com, go to more than one rally a year, etc. They will hear about stages getting cancelled due to spectators, which will hopefully convince them to just listen to the marshalls in the future.
Two things that would (or have) help spectator areas:
1. ABSOULTELY NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED IN THE AREA
2. Police officer(s) stationed at every spectator point. More than one may be needed depedning on the size and time of the spectator area.
Just my thoughts...
I don't condone swearing, yelling, etc. However, if you are responsible for keeping people safe, than you do what you can to get them to listen. If cursing is what it takes to get the person to understand the severity of the cause, than sometimes the offender is more apt to listen (though oftentimes not, it just ignites the situation).
I think that nowadays spectators will be a little more understanding that if spectator control workers are not comfortable with the safety of the spectator area, that the stage WILL be cancelled. In the past, that was typically an idle threat (unless it was really bad), but given the state of rally today, that will be the absolute rule.
By the way, all of the problem spectators I've dealt with are typically rally fans, people who surf specialstage.com, go to more than one rally a year, etc. They will hear about stages getting cancelled due to spectators, which will hopefully convince them to just listen to the marshalls in the future.
Two things that would (or have) help spectator areas:
1. ABSOULTELY NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED IN THE AREA
2. Police officer(s) stationed at every spectator point. More than one may be needed depedning on the size and time of the spectator area.
Just my thoughts...
Spectating rallys has always "blown." If you want the fun-and-sense-of-accomplishment/bullpoo ratio to flip positive, switch to organizing, competing, or crewing, and dedicate yourself to doing a good job. Otherwise, stay home, get Speedchannel and order the videos.
It's boring watching club races at the road race track too. At Portland International Raceway, specatators bake for 6 hours in the sun for a total of 20 minutes of actual interesting action. Jersey barrier, chainlink, and (yup, here too!) cranky marshals separate you from harms' way. You can't plant your butt down wherever your "judgement" deems is safe. The track is empty far more than it is occupied. Even when a race is happening, there are only a few interesting moments. I'm much more entertained walking through the pits between race groups. I would never show up at a rally merely to spectate.
Rally marshals are cranky because: [ul][li]they aren't paid[/li][li]they sure as hell aren't paid to deal with your poo[/li][li]they are often merely incredulous that you bring your poo[/li][/ul]
If you have your kids in the woods, they will not make you immune to marshals being cranky with you. Keep your stroller off the stage. Heed the signs and the bannertape. Your "BABY ON BOARD" sign is back in your car and never changed anyone's behavior anyway. If you want your family to experience and grow through motorsport, participate. Stop being a tourist.
Disregard this advice at your peril -- either control yourself at our events or take our crankiness with a smile. This isn't hockey.
The key to successful spectating, regardless the sport or venue, is keeping the spectaters entertained and controlled. Baseball has clowns, food, beer, and fences. Football has cheerleaders, halftime shows, food, beer, and fences. At the left-turn-races, you can see all the action, all the time -- and there's food, beer, and fences. At the big road races, they have Jumbotrons with feeds from the live video, there's also food, beer, and fences. Spectating rallys will continue to suck (or be dangerous) until we can provide fulltime eyecandy and fence folks in.
andy
It's boring watching club races at the road race track too. At Portland International Raceway, specatators bake for 6 hours in the sun for a total of 20 minutes of actual interesting action. Jersey barrier, chainlink, and (yup, here too!) cranky marshals separate you from harms' way. You can't plant your butt down wherever your "judgement" deems is safe. The track is empty far more than it is occupied. Even when a race is happening, there are only a few interesting moments. I'm much more entertained walking through the pits between race groups. I would never show up at a rally merely to spectate.
Rally marshals are cranky because: [ul][li]they aren't paid[/li][li]they sure as hell aren't paid to deal with your poo[/li][li]they are often merely incredulous that you bring your poo[/li][/ul]
If you have your kids in the woods, they will not make you immune to marshals being cranky with you. Keep your stroller off the stage. Heed the signs and the bannertape. Your "BABY ON BOARD" sign is back in your car and never changed anyone's behavior anyway. If you want your family to experience and grow through motorsport, participate. Stop being a tourist.
Disregard this advice at your peril -- either control yourself at our events or take our crankiness with a smile. This isn't hockey.
The key to successful spectating, regardless the sport or venue, is keeping the spectaters entertained and controlled. Baseball has clowns, food, beer, and fences. Football has cheerleaders, halftime shows, food, beer, and fences. At the left-turn-races, you can see all the action, all the time -- and there's food, beer, and fences. At the big road races, they have Jumbotrons with feeds from the live video, there's also food, beer, and fences. Spectating rallys will continue to suck (or be dangerous) until we can provide fulltime eyecandy and fence folks in.
andy
I had mixed emotions on spectating this year at STPR. Though it was definately much less fun than previous events, I thought that the spectator areas were run relatively well. I agree that there were a few marshals that were unecesarily rude. As for the no alcohol in the spectator areas.... If you were referring to STPR, there is no alcohol allowed anywhere in the state forest. That is why there were the rangers checking bags, as somebody above mentioned.
It seems like many people here are dissing spectating. I had never spectated before until last rally I DNF'ed about 3/4 of the way through. So I took the chance to go and watch the other competitors race.
I had a blast!! It was amazing to see all the cars rip it up, ALL OF THEM. So for people out there who might read these comments and be discouraged from spectating, don't be. Its alot of fun and personally its much, much better than watching the event on TV.
Cheers,
I had a blast!! It was amazing to see all the cars rip it up, ALL OF THEM. So for people out there who might read these comments and be discouraged from spectating, don't be. Its alot of fun and personally its much, much better than watching the event on TV.
Cheers,
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374 Posts
>Its alot of fun and personally its much, much better than
>watching the event on TV.
>
>Cheers,
That's because there are more than 6 cars at a rally, which you wouldn't know about by watching the TV show.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
>watching the event on TV.
>
>Cheers,
That's because there are more than 6 cars at a rally, which you wouldn't know about by watching the TV show.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
If your expectations are reasonable, it can be an enjoyable day in the woods, especially when your only alternative is to think about a DNF. There are too many people who come to be "entertained," though, and are either ignorant or push the limits for no reason.
If you think you might have Teamhella's experience, stay home. If you aren't on a schedule and are smart enough to pack a lunch, a coat, and a hat and are willing to just chill and chat with other folks all day, by all means, spectate. Idiots will be there, though, and the marshals will get cranky and loud now and then.
andy
If you think you might have Teamhella's experience, stay home. If you aren't on a schedule and are smart enough to pack a lunch, a coat, and a hat and are willing to just chill and chat with other folks all day, by all means, spectate. Idiots will be there, though, and the marshals will get cranky and loud now and then.
andy
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43 Posts
I agree spectating can be a lot of fun - I spectated my first 14 rallies or so, before feeling guilty and decided to start working.
I was amazed in how much MORE fun working can be.
You want excitement? Become a radio operator and work the rally. It's so cheap and you are so much more in tune with what is really going on. You can still work positions that you can watch cars go by, and at the same time you are helping out with the event.
Become a marshal. Marshalling a non-spectator intersection can often be an exciting job - you get your own personal viewing spot, you may bump into some locals and teach them about the sport, and if some poor team retires at your corner, you get to spend the rest of the stage BS'ing with them about rally!
I'm not going to say that every position you work at a rally is going to be as exciting as spectating, but the opportunity is there, and at the same time you would be helping the sport to grow.
Also, if you are interested in becoming a competitor, I would highly urge you to come out and work some starts and finishes. Here you would learn how the competitor goes through each control, what they do with time cards, etc.
I was amazed in how much MORE fun working can be.
You want excitement? Become a radio operator and work the rally. It's so cheap and you are so much more in tune with what is really going on. You can still work positions that you can watch cars go by, and at the same time you are helping out with the event.
Become a marshal. Marshalling a non-spectator intersection can often be an exciting job - you get your own personal viewing spot, you may bump into some locals and teach them about the sport, and if some poor team retires at your corner, you get to spend the rest of the stage BS'ing with them about rally!
I'm not going to say that every position you work at a rally is going to be as exciting as spectating, but the opportunity is there, and at the same time you would be helping the sport to grow.
Also, if you are interested in becoming a competitor, I would highly urge you to come out and work some starts and finishes. Here you would learn how the competitor goes through each control, what they do with time cards, etc.
First rally I specatated was Maine 2001... the next rally I attended was Sawmill '02 as a competitor. Since then I have worked at Maine 2002, competed in 5 more events, and worked at STPR this weekend.
I have to agree, spectating is boring. I only spectated part of STPR after finishing working my stage and not having anything else to do. The only thing I got out of it was watching the cars to try and learn what to do and not to do in my own driving.
But, I disagree that STPR was boring because of how it was run. Personally, from the workers' side of things, everyone said that the spectators were all well behaved, except for a handful of people at one spot. I know that the spot I was at, everything went great and we had good vantage points, at least as good as I could want. I know what goes on inside a rally car, and quite frankly I get the heck out of the way when I see one coming.
Anyway, my point is that any spectators that had a problem with marshals brought it upon themselves. And the forest rangers can do whatever they want with alcohol in their woods. Alcohol has no place on a rally stage, anyway.
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland
I have to agree, spectating is boring. I only spectated part of STPR after finishing working my stage and not having anything else to do. The only thing I got out of it was watching the cars to try and learn what to do and not to do in my own driving.
But, I disagree that STPR was boring because of how it was run. Personally, from the workers' side of things, everyone said that the spectators were all well behaved, except for a handful of people at one spot. I know that the spot I was at, everything went great and we had good vantage points, at least as good as I could want. I know what goes on inside a rally car, and quite frankly I get the heck out of the way when I see one coming.
Anyway, my point is that any spectators that had a problem with marshals brought it upon themselves. And the forest rangers can do whatever they want with alcohol in their woods. Alcohol has no place on a rally stage, anyway.
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland
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