[imprezarb5]

In looking at the various websites (i.e. autoklub.pl, rallyonline.pl, etc) there are a lot of European drivers preparing to tackle the 2005 championships in the new Impreza Spec C or Mitsubishi Evo MR. A terrific example of this was at the Rally Il Ciocio in Italy where there were several of each (Longhi, Aghini, Cantamessa in Subaru's and Navarra, Cunico, Sottile in Evo MR to name several). I understand that the level of sponsorship for teams in NARC and RallyAmerica is at a different level . . . but I am curious if anyone is working on competing in these ultra trick evolutions in the United States this year? Although its pure speculation, is there any chance that we might see foreign drivers bring something like that over in the FIA listed NARC events.

Regards,
Simon

 

[PAddy]

Without manufacturer backing, I'm really not sure why they'd bother. Look at the car Pat won with last year, for the cost of one of the newfangled ones, you could build that and have some money left over to run some events. And buy lots of tyres.

That being said, excess is always fun to watch.

 

[imprezarb5]

Good Point. But You are right, excess is a lot of fun to watch.

Simon

 

[Greg Donovan]

i was under the impression that aside from the engine the USDM impreza STi was the same as the JDM impreza STi.

 

[gplsek]

the spec C is very different from anything you can get here in the States. Sube has gotten serious as far as wanting to dominate PWRC or Grp N after many years of Mitsu domination.

I belive when both the Evo MR RS and Sube STi spec C developed to full and top level the Sube will be a better more powerfull car in GrpN.

With that said I think out of the box you can be more competetive in the EVO for less $$

-george

 

[joeg]

It would not suprise me to see one of those cars drift over to North America for an event or two in the hands of some wealthy privateer.

 

[Pete Kuncis]

>It would not suprise me to see one of those cars drift over
>to North America for an event or two in the hands of some
>wealthy privateer.

With the warm weather approaching, the Evo MR tree in Yonkers should be sprouting soon.

Pete

 

[[email protected]]

A top spec Group N Mitsubishi Evo is around £55 - £60k to build, a equally well specced Impreza is around £80k.

To pose a serious challenge to the Mitsubishi's in Group N you need to be in a Prodrive built, and be able to throw money at it to keep it up dated to the latest spec.

For performance and ability pretty much straight out of the box you will struggle to beat a Group N car. When you look at their performances they have come on in leaps and bounds over the last five years. Partly helped by rule changes to allow more trick parts.

 

[Glenn Wallace]

>the spec C is very different from anything you can get here
>in the States. Sube has gotten serious as far as wanting to
>dominate PWRC or Grp N after many years of Mitsu domination.

Actually, the Spec C 17" road car is quite similar to the USDM car.
http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/wrx/lineup/06/index.html

The US car has:
- the same suspension reinforcement pieces at the rear
- the semi-quick ratio (quickest you can get in LHD from the factory)
- lightweight rear glass
- Spec C front control arms (15mm longer track than "normal" STi
- Spec C wheels and tires (though this is moot for rallying)

But it lacks:
- the 2.0 twin scroll turbo engine
- shorter 5th and 6th gears
- lighter front seats (ours have airbags)
- the larger intercooler spray tank (though we have the non-pass through back seat to suit....)

Of course, most people buying a Japanese model to build a rally car with would use the Spec C 16" (small brakes, steel wheels http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/wrx/lineup/07/index.html) , or the Type RA http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/spec_c_RA/ .

If you weren't fussy about Group N rules, or were building an open class car, starting with a USDM STi and swapping brakes and engine would be a decent starting point.

The high $ Group N cars are amazing, I've stuck my head in a few of the Prodrive cars. Yummy.

The car(s) Sutton is bringing out were built by Prodrive.

Glenn

 

[[email protected]]

They do build a nice car.

It was an N8 when we first had it here, we then up specced it to N10 and have since turned it into an open class car that is capable of scaring the odd WRC and old Group B cars we have here in the UK.

Pretty good when you consider the size of the restrictors we have to run over here.

I keep meaning to write a feature and get some piccies of it up on the website because it really is a lovely car. We have just put a full electronic dash in it, mounted in a bespoke flocked carbon fibre dash panel, with all the data loggers etc. As well as the latest diff software and a brand new Group A / WRC hybrid engine we built for it.

As an aside, when we looked at building an EVO 8 for one of our customers we discovered Mitsubishi had made a mistake when homolgating the car. Meaning you had to spend even more money on a conversion kit so that you could start from where you should be with the base car.

The sexy new roof scoop for an EVO 8 is around $6000!!!! It is probably the most aerodynamic roof vent ever, but imagine rolling the car with one of those on it! I think I would cry!

 

[DaveHintz]

$6000 roof scoop? Group N sucks! Keep it on the other side of the pond.

 

[gplsek]

you can get that roof scoop from ralliart Italy for 1800EU , but that is not the point, still crazy $$ for roof scoop.

-george

 

[Gravel Spray]

>$6000 roof scoop? Group N sucks! Keep it on the other side
>of the pond.
>
>

Hey now, ***** roof scoops are not "required" in N. And you certainly do not have to buy that one.

Let's compare open vs GN operational costs at the end of the season.



pete

 

[gplsek]

I don't even want to go there Pete.

-gp

 

[IanM]

>The sexy new roof scoop for an EVO 8 is around $6000!!!! It
>is probably the most aerodynamic roof vent ever, but imagine
>rolling the car with one of those on it! I think I would
>cry!

For that price, it better darn well have Go Faster stripes!!! :+

 

[markn]

>The sexy new roof scoop for an EVO 8 is around $6000!!!! It
>is probably the most aerodynamic roof vent ever, but imagine
>rolling the car with one of those on it! I think I would
>cry!
>

The roof scoop is 3500 Euros from Ralliart Italy (http://www.ralliart.it/Product Info_RAI_04.pdf), who's pricing is already obnoxious (135K Euros for a full-spec E8 Super N). Seems like they decided to enter the Prodrive pricing realm.

There are obviously copies of the vent being made, but they're a complicated piece - 11 parts in total.

cheers,
-mark

 

[jake himes]

>$6000 roof scoop? Group N sucks! Keep it on the other side
>of the pond.
>
>

Dave, for the price of the roof scooooop one could be having a blast in Group F. If that Suby ever gets too expensive you could always come back to the family.

 

[[email protected]]

It is a similar story with the hydraulic handbrake kit for the E7 and E8.

Ralliart have homolgated the cylinder and lever and the homologation pictures clearly show the manufcaturers name on the cylinder, meaning any other cylinder is illegal to use. They manufacturers of the cylinder will only sell the part to Ralliart.

A captive market and a monopoly on the part. Clever on the part of Ralliart and it means they protect their investment, but frustrating for consumers.

The kit is 3000 EUR for the cylinder and an upright lever. We could probably put together an almost identical kit, as we have done on some of the cars here, for less than a quater of the price.

 

[markn]

The hydraulic handbrake m/c is a pretty interesting piece - 2 pistons which push against each other, rather than one single piston. Also allows you to remove the cables and brake shoes simplifying the rear brake setup. I've heard of at least one company trying to reproduce this m/c exactly with the manufacturer name on it. We'll see...

cheers,
mark

 

[[email protected]]

I know of a company who produces a copy of the Ralliart kit, but the cylinder is not the right one. The manufacturer is selling it as Group N legal but if fellow competitors were switched on enough and wanted to protest it then I think the resulting enquiry would be over quite quickly.

Just a few copyright, patent and trademark issues to be considered with ripping off someone else's product that a multi national car manufacturer has spent X thousands of dollars developing!