Special Stage Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
As I went by you, it had "JUST" happened...
that would be because you "just" flew by ME on stage...

i couldnt see a damn thing... Hope i got out of your way ok...
And i can totally understand how you went off where you did...
very slick corner....
must have sucked you guys right into that tree :(

I knew the car wasnt going to be pretty....
the photos are amazing, really lucky you guys are alright

and I'm in total agreement with you on one comment you made...
stage notes... from now on - definately the way to go!!
(at least next time when i cant see...
i'll have some distances to go by before/after turns.)

again, glad you are alright.
that's what matters most now isnt it?

cheers
Jamie
www.subiegalracing.com
www.subiegal.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
>again, glad you are alright.
>that's what matters most now isnt it?

That and what to build next. I have this little yellow WRX in my garage . . . I hear it calling . . . "Pick me! Pick me!"

Will be very hard to resist.

Ken Hawley
Silenus Motorsports
Kalamazoo, MI
Audi 4000Q - #577
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
Walking out of HQs Saturday morning Montgomery and I spied the Quattro and said, "Whoa! We were lucky!"

Walking past the Citgo I mentioned we needed to snap some pics, Bill asked, "Is that cool?" I responded, "They'll LOVE the attention!"

I was right:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/LSPR2002/Audi4.jpg

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/LSPR2002/Audi3.jpg

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/LSPR2002/Audi2.jpg

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Beetle/LSPR2002/Audi1.jpg

Plenty of caption contest fodder in these four!! :+

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Glad you are OK, trees hurt like hell.:eek:

Looks almost identical to a shunt we had in our Manta, we repared the car by chopping everything forward of the windshield off and stiching another front back on. We did it properly following all the original panel weld lines etc like the car was originally built with.

We had the car back out 4 weeks later and won the 2 litre national championship with it. :D

Dont write it off before checking it out properly, sometimes you can retrieve those kind of shunts.

Alternatively, buy a big hammer. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
It was black, it was yellow, it was white with Audi stripes.

I shed a tear, but glad I was nowhere near.



Glad you guys are OK, I'll miss seeing the Audi on the stages. Is John Kemps the last of the 4000's?


Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I hope you are wearing your asbestos shorts, because this is a hot topic.

As of Friday, I am a believer in notes and nothing else.

The notes for LSPR were $150 ... on top of a $550 club entry fee. That defrays the cost of making them, which is not small. It's done by an automated system that uses accelerometers, gps, and god knows what else to produce the first draft. Then they are tweaked by real rally drivers.

Expensive equipment and a very time consuming process, but intended to be very consistent from rally to rally. It also makes it difficult for club-only rallies to afford and for low-budget teams in pro rallies. (CARS, by the way, makes notes available for a lot less money. There, now I'll shove a stick in that hornet's nest, too.)

They are safer and eventually will replace tulip notes completely, I bet, but not instantly. There will be, of course, a rear guard of traditionalists to argue against this.

As I mentioned on the web page, we chose not to use notes because a beginner needs to learn a few basic skills before devoting the kind of co-driver bandwidth that notes require. In other words, certain co-driver actions need to be pretty automatic so they can be done in conjunction with notes - arrival calculations and working the odometer, for example.

The beginner alternative would be to use the notes and slow down, but what fun is that?
 

·
www.christianedstrom.com
Joined
·
2,144 Posts
>(CARS, by the way, makes
>notes available for a lot less money. There, now I'll shove
>a stick in that hornet's nest, too.)

Actually, CARS does not provide stage notes. Keith Townsend provided notes that he and Frank Sprongl made for the OPRC Black Bear Rally, and has said that notes will be available for Tall Pines. All other events in the Canadian series run without organizer (stage) notes. Charlevoix allows recce, but has no organizer notes.

The notes are not inexpensive to make, and the costs reflect this. You can read JB's memo about this in the last Fastrack, or on the web. Nevertheless, the stage note program has been very good, and at $150, it is still pretty cheap.

I think there are good reasons for beginners to stick to the routebook, which were outlined on the web page mentioned, but cost isn't really one of them. The notes are cheaper than a single tire, and certainly cheaper than 2 days of recce.

Cheers,
- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Timefactors.com Rally Team
Gingras Rally Sport (SCCA)
Musketeer Racing (CARS)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
Counterpoint:

I used notes for the first time at LSPR. My off had nothing to do with the use of notes. The slippery conditions (and a sticky shifter) caught me out. (Soft roll onto right side of car.

We went on to use the notes all day Saturday. While we were able to set much faster times than previous years on the same stages, car control is car control.

I personally believe you'll learn to control your car at speeds within the context of the road by driving what you can see -- yes it is slower, and yes you need a good route book to keep you safe, but when you crash you'll crash at a lower speed.

Straight out of the box using notes might let you go a lot faster, only allowing you to crash a lot harder.

I enjoyed the notes. I have never had a need to go "faster" I just want to be quicker than the next guy. That said, notes does level the playing field, you should be able to run any new road with a pretty good idea of what is around the next bend and over the next crest.

I'll look forward to using route book on club events and notes on Pro events and evaluating the differences.

Mike
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
"Expensive equipment and a very time consuming process, but intended to be very consistent from rally to rally. It also makes it difficult for club-only rallies to afford and for low-budget teams in pro rallies."

Talking to Pete Lahm at the end of the awards party saturday evening he told us that it was their intention to attempt to make the notes available for some stand-alone club events next year.

Kent Gardam
 

·
your other left, you idiot
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
>That and what to build next. I have this little yellow WRX
>in my garage . . . I hear it calling . . . "Pick me! Pick
>me!"
>
>Will be very hard to resist.
>
>Ken Hawley

Kenny, Kenny, Kenny-
Tell them the REST of the story.
You know how we always tell newbies to buy a used rally car rather than building their own? Ken actually listened. He bought a new WRX and wanted to build it into a rally car. We told him to buy a disposable car instead. So, Ken you can preach that mantra to the next guy who asks.
Also, think how bad the wreck would have been in the WRX!
But what do I know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
>Dont write it off before checking it out properly, sometimes
>you can retrieve those kind of shunts.

I will echo that... last year we had a straight-on into a tree in Belgium:

[link:www.mycasanetwork.com/~jsmith/pictures/index.html|Belgium 2001]

... but the shell was recoverable. Basically a new chassis leg was welded on, and a new bulkhead ( plus things like bonnet, wings, bumper, etc. :) )

Repairing the shell (excluding panels) cost about the equivalent of $600-00 at a professional rally bodyshop, and that including checking the geometry of all the suspension pick-up points, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
...4 R downhill into tree...x(

Did I read that right?;-)

My father told me if your gonna make the effort to do someting, do it right!
Ouchx(
Or was it 'its all fun and games until someone gets hurt.'(Fortunantly not seriously. But in defense of the Mad Mike pics, I am wearing a drug induced smile.):eek:

I would like to show my appreciation to the two spectators who helped me out of the car and made sure we had our triangles and OK displayed, as well as dragging me into the woods so I'd be safe from traffic. Their actions should be noted, especially if we would have been more seriously hurt. By the way, they have video of the whole incident, including the post-collision interview (hope they edit that) which will be available soon.

We have the technology. We can rebuild it. Part human, part machine. Stronger...Faster...More Agile...The bionic Audi will be back!:D

Brent Moyer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
"I would like to show my appreciation to the two spectators who helped me out of the car and made sure we had our triangles and OK displayed, as well as dragging me into the woods so I'd be safe from traffic. Their actions should be noted, especially if we would have been more seriously hurt. By the way, they have video of the whole incident, including the post-collision interview (hope they edit that) which will be available soon."

Hey, no problem!
That's what us spectators are here for!

I was actually pretty bummed out at that stage (Passmore) because they weren't finishing it in the normal location. There was a nice off camber turn about 1 mile before the finish (north end) of the old layout that was always exciting to watch. Three years ago, this is where Lawler stuffed the Hyundai into a tree after the flying finish.

Anyway, my co-spectator and I hiked what we thought was only a half mile into the stage from the finish (turned out to be 1.5 miles). We eventually found this nice downhill, off camber, very slippery right hander. The first few Open guys read the turn perfectly, but later into the pack, many drivers missed the turn. Most of the cars who missed the call, or came in too hot, simply kept driving straight onto the little two track road before stopping and turning around. A few cars came awfully close to stuffing it as well, but somehow managed to pull it off. All in all, I would say at least 12 cars went off on that turn in one way or another.

Now, we do have video of the crash, but it was shot in "night vision" so I'm not sure how the quality is going to pan out. We were pretty excited to see Ken and Brent come flying down that hill as fast as they were. We got even more excited when we saw them trying to make the turn. So here we are hootin' and a hollerin' for you two guys when all of a sudden we hear a...

S-N-A-P-!-!-!

That's when we realized that this had gone from a fun playful situation, to something potentially very bad. We were glad to see both of guys walk away unhurt, although a little shaken (for obviously good reasons).

The video should be ready by tonight. If somebody has some extra bandwidth, I can e-mail an electronic copy. Drop me a line at: [email protected]

-Andrew Bayley

P.S. Thinking about that always gets you in trouble!!! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
>>Halley, you're a very bad man.

For posting the pictures. :+

>>And your name is spelled wrong, too.

Do I have to explain this one?

>Halley ...

Ken Hawley
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
> Also, think how bad the wreck would have been in the WRX!
> But what do I know.

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy

Who am I to argue with the reigning GpN champion?

... but still the temptation is strong.

Thanks to everyone for the comments, but can't we get Halley's damn three stooges pictures off this thread?

Hey, Moe! Is that a rally car?
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top