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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I want to get into H class.

Is it worth it to track down a Mark I or II Escort? Are there any around in North America (at a budget price)?

The reason I ask is I would like to do something different, and I love the sound of a Cosworth BDA. I used to have a Hyundai Pony with an ex-FF2000 Kent under the hood. Seemed like a good idea at the time but wasn't CARS legal so I used it as a TSD and autocross car.

The other option is maybe a 1966 Sunbeam Minx.

I need help!


Jeremy Oreskovich
[email protected]

"Racing is life...
All else is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen

"Our Car is F***ed"
-Team Skoda co-driver Tina Thorner
 

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>So I want to get into H class.
Could be fun!!!
Should be fun!!!
>
>Is it worth it to track down a Mark I or II Escort? Are
>there any around in North America (at a budget price)?

Probably not a reasonable price.
Right now I'm just having dinner and taking a break from doing the ring end gaps on a nice 2054cc alloy BDG, piston will go in shortly this evening.
Point is, the customer in question, a genuine loonie Irish fellow doesn't have a suitable car for this thing (has some flexy junk English sports car whih is junky at 90 bhp, this would be insane at 254 bhp!) so I've been tracking down a very specific anwser to a question to make finding a roller shell easier and that question is this: Is the firewall or bulkhead stamping
essentially the same thing for LHD and RHD.

And the answer is.......................................................................................is.................................................
iiiIIIIISSS............(wait for it.......).................
YES!!!!!
So now one can consider the millions of RHD cars in Escort heaven aka UK, a 2.2 lhd rack and a lhd dash and away you go!
>
>The reason I ask is I would like to do something different,
>and I love the sound of a Cosworth BDA.

Any idea what a BDA or BDG will cost you? DON'T ASK!!! DON'T THINK!
It's that bad!
Do a beeeeeg nasty 1750cc Kent with BVhead and a quater of the price, I may be helping "Haulin'" Colin McCleery source all the goodies for his Cortina, essentially the same stuff.

You really want to do a Escort, it's quite do-able but as thing currently stand you are locked by the rules into a MkI no later than ???????? Opps can't say!!!
Send me a private email if you want to discuss anything which I don't know anything about, but don't tell anybody. Even me!


Hey where are you at? up in Ontario?





>
>The other option is maybe a 1966 Sunbeam Minx.
What's wrong with a nice Skoda 130 Super Estelle all GpA'd all to hell with those wild over the top intake manifold and beeeg stinking Webers, and big 4 piston calipers up front Stock!, yee haw!
>
>I need help!
Hey I'll help your spelling for Tina's "efternamn", look
>
>
>Jeremy Oreskovich
>[email protected]
>
>"Racing is life...
>All else is just waiting."
> -Steve McQueen
>
>"Our Car is F***ed"
> -Team Skoda co-driver Tina Thörner





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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I was told in Ireland that a good BDA could cost between $15-20k. A lot of the UK guys use Kents, as John says, or 1.6 Twin cam Toyota or the like
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's what I thought pricewise...I guess I should put away all the old copies of Cars and Car Conversions surrounding my desk!;)

One other (remote) option is an Alpine A110 that a local guy is letting return to the soil from whence it came...but won't sell...no no no. My big problem with that is that I am 6'5". I'm thinking that an A110 might be a leetle small. Plus, where the heck do I get resto parts? France is a long way away by mail...

And yes, I am in Sarnia, 60 mi north of Detroit.

Jeremy Oreskovich
[email protected]

"Racing is life...
All else is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen

"Our Car is F***ed"
-Team Skoda co-driver Tina Thorner
 

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Go for the Escort and a bad Kent bored + 090, shipping into Canada from Southhampton should be around $1000 CDN, stuff all available cheap, all the wear itema can be had here in Norte America.

I've sat in those cutie Alpine things, Lots of laughs getting in at 5' 9".

No, New steel bits still available for the Ford and all the rally parts in the world.

And with a little shopping a BDA with iron block could be had for maybe $7500 all rebuilt maybe.

Escort!!



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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- What's wrong with Pinto 2.0?
- #1 choise in Finland and Sweden!
- 240 HP, stays together and cheap spare parts in every junkyard.
- Just call her: RS2000
 

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Escort !

Stay away from BDA if cost is an issue, I'm 6'5" too and I fit fine in all Escorts MkI and MkII. When I tried to get out of the Alpine they were going to use the jaws-of-life for the first time without an accident. Kent is bulletproof as long as it is well tuned and maintained.

Cheers

M.Samli
 

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>- What's wrong with Pinto 2.0?
>- #1 choise in Finland and Sweden!
>- 240 HP, stays together and cheap spare parts in every
>junkyard.
>- Just call her: RS2000
Well, as it stands now, I don't think it would be legal would it?
Did 2 liter Pintos ever come in MkIs built before whatever the hell the date is?
Now if the rules allowed MkIIs in, and if one MkII is allowed say a '75 then logically all MkII thru 1980 ought also to be allowed in since there was no difference at all, then you could do a Pinto no problemo and that would be nice since I know those engines really good, been using Euro 2000 pistons for 15 years in certain other Ford products and have a stack of the cute 16v direct decendants down stairs.

But alas, last time I mentioned anything about bring sense to the process of revising the H class rules I got a pouty/angry letter from somebody who knows all about rallying older cars from the seventies, so I won't suggest anything here except to say to you Topi:
Håll truten!!! Djävla Finn djävel fan! Du är en stygging! Fie Skäms på dig!
Du vet nog vem det är som är den som har tagit det på sig att skriva om historisk klass reglarna, va? Hans namn är ungefar som liter/km. Snubben som åker omkring i det skräp-dagen-det-rullade-ur-fabrikens-dörrar engelsk dynga. Ja, ja, two säsonger in skräpet och nu är det han som skrivar reglarna. Och det skitar jag i, det är bara sista produktions datum som är dum och ingen ha en aning vad det är for revisionen, det är hemligt.

Dear readers, that was special secret communications with Topi, if you can read it disregard it and forget you saw it, email me offline if you want to discuss H class, it's too sensitive to discuss here on a discussion forum,and I have recieved a private email explaining to me why I am a beeeeg pain in the drain for foolishly thinking that a discussion forum might be the place to discuss things we are interested in or might just possibly know something about, so write me, but don't call me names and be pouty!





John "Secret Agent" Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Opening twangy bass line.....

There's a man who lives a life of danger,
Everyone meets he stays a stranger,
With every move he makes, another chance he take,
Odds are he won't live to see the morrow.......
 

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Hej John,

Var tyst! :) Jag talar svenska och jag bygger en skräp-dagen-det-rullade-ur-fabrikens-dörrar engelsk rallybil! Men den här bilen är fortfarande mycket populär i Finland, sarskilt på isbanorna. Försök gissa! Och jag vet at det är vansinnigt att bygga en sådan bil här i USA. Men det är för nöjes skull!

Has anyone polled the folks here recently to see what is being built or what others are planning to build? As much as I love the concept of H-class, I find it difficult to believe that it will grow much based on the tiny competitor base in the US (vs. population and land area). But I am hopeful. I've got a few things I've been kicking around regarding the H-class rules that I hope would encourage more competitors:

Expand the eligibility dates out to 12/31/76 (FIA period H). We need an H-class that allows cars that are already out there (SAAB 99, Datsun 510, etc.) to immediately move to H. Cars that were constructed beyond the cutoff date should be eligible if they have identical specs to pre-1977 cars. Backdating should be allowed as well.

Subdivide H into classes based on displacement now. Yes, that means there will be few or no competitors in certain classes. But, it gives potential entrants a chance to get in without feeling they have to buy a Cosworth powered Mk2 Escort to compete. More options means more competitors now and more potential future growth.

I also think that tarmac events would draw more historic cars...but that's another subject entirely.

Flame away.

Steve Spears
 

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- John(Din djavla utlanning i varge land!)

- Vad i helvete snackar du om?
- Vem ar det som skiver om reglementer?
- O vad kor han?
(VG-Skiva off-line o ger mig mer info om du vill)

- Yes, the old cut-off date DOESN'T work. (I don't see much wrong with it but most do - time to try later date)
- FIA "H" could be a step forward. I'd go up to "25 years floating" age limit.
- What's wrong with BDA Escort? Somebody's gonna win, why not an exciting Escort BDA? After all it DID most of winning....
- Those of you who are worried about SAAB turbos, don't. SAAB did brilliant engineering to prevent that - it's called SAAB GEAR BOX. That's a fuse that will blow before the finish...

- There's is an American turbo car that's homologated and could beat all; Corvair Corsa Turbo! One was running in Swedish Rallycross @ 400+ HP in 1970s !! With todays technology I recon 500+ HP could be reality - all within FIA '66 rules....
 

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Hi Topi,

No problem at all with the Escort BDA or Stratos for that matter - let the big dogs hunt. That's why we need expanded dates. I feel like a healthy H-class needs someplace for everyone to play though. You're right about the Corvair - there are a number of good cars right under our noses.

Steve Spears
 

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>Hej John,
Hej Steve, du är myket stygg! Jag sade det var hemligt meddellande riktade till min agitatör kompis Topi, jag ber dig omedelbart glömma alting du har läst. Och tänkt! Och ska tänka i framtiden!!
>
>Var tyst! :) Jag talar svenska och jag bygger en
>skräp-dagen-det-rullade-ur-fabrikens-dörrar engelsk
>rallybil! Men den här bilen är fortfarande mycket populär i
>Finland, sarskilt på isbanorna. Försök gissa!

Ingen aning men den bil som jag försökde ger ett liten insikt till utan att nämna bilen eller ägaren kunde man lista ut från ordern: mycket grymt bajs. Oi det var perfekt!! Mycket grymt bajs, ti hi!!

Ser du Topi? Titta tillbaka tills där snubben som frågade on ett sjutitrea Crapi och titta lite for namnet som böjar med bokstaverna mycket grymt bajs, OK?


Och jag vet
>at det är vansinnigt att bygga en sådan bil här i USA. Men
>det är för nöjes skull!
Okej vi kan hoppas att det är en fin Escort med nåt roligt under huv.
>
>Has anyone polled the folks here recently to see what is
>being built or what others are planning to build?

Of course not!


As much
>as I love the concept of H-class, I find it difficult to
>believe that it will grow much based on the tiny competitor
>base in the US (vs. population and land area). But I am
>hopeful. I've got a few things I've been kicking around
>regarding the H-class rules that I hope would encourage more
>competitors:
>
>Expand the eligibility dates out to 12/31/76 (FIA period H).
>We need an H-class that allows cars that are already out
>there (SAAB 99, Datsun 510, etc.) to immediately move to H.
>Cars that were constructed beyond the cutoff date should be
>eligible if they have identical specs to pre-1977 cars.
>Backdating should be allowed as well.

Stop making sense!!! There has been discussion here ad nauseum and got nowhere and numerous people have suggested similar reasonable accomodations especially if the one car is say: a 70 Saab 96 V4, then a 73 or even a 78 should be allowed as well since the only differences are the position of the wiper motor relative to the head of the motor asembly (the GOOD 70 96 has the motor at 8 o'clock, the BAAAAD illegal 73 on cars have the motors over at 4 o'clock! Outrageous!!) and the brake master mounting flange (the blessed 70 car having the mounting flange bolts at 12 and 6 like god intended and the bad evil illegal 73 on cars have the flange bolts at 9 and 3!!)
But saner heads prevailed.


Can you imagine what spectators, the growing multitudes of afficianados
would do if they knew that inside that otherwise identical car was these affonts to god and nature of the wiper motor and mounting flnage bolts being different!!!)
>
>Subdivide H into classes based on displacement now. Yes,
>that means there will be few or no competitors in certain
>classes. But, it gives potential entrants a chance to get
>in without feeling they have to buy a Cosworth powered Mk2
>Escort to compete. More options means more competitors now
>and more potential future growth.

Oh this is getting bad!! I think you should be banned for not supporting the class!!! Even if this is also exactly what every single owner of 73 thru 80 cars I have talked to has suggested, they has beens and hangers on like me and have been building or have had these cars for years, wtf do they know!!??
>
>I also think that tarmac events would draw more historic
>cars...but that's another subject entirely.
>
>Flame away.
>
>Steve Spears
Well since you're getting fiesty, let's throw the idea out there that cars that are H _AND_ say Gp2 legal should be classed as both in results, and not be forced to choose between entering as only one or the other.
Thoughts?

PS nothing to flame about is there?

And tell us what you're building even if it is some shameful engelsk skräp (and Escort ain't engelsk skräp)





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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>One other (remote) option is an Alpine A110 that a local guy
>is letting return to the soil from whence it came...but
>won't sell...no no no. My big problem with that is that I am
>6'5". I'm thinking that an A110 might be a leetle small.
>Plus, where the heck do I get resto parts? France is a long
>way away by mail...

Pro - You'll get to learn French.
Con - You'll HAVE to learn French.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow! Great response on the post! Thanks for all the advice...

The reason I wanted to get into rallying in the first place was that it seemed like it was so much fun. And it was, until business got involved.
Now, business involvement is fine, (we need it for the sport to grow)but it kind of muscles out the occasional weekend warrior like myself.
Thus the attraction of H class. It's full of like-minded people out there for the hell of it. Getting beat by everyone in the universe isn't so bad when you're really only racing against cars as old as yours.

I think that the raising of age limits to par with the FIA's would be great! Think of all the classic iron we would see...
-Mark II Escorts
-Strati
-Fiat 131's
-Even early Chevettes done up to HS spec...


Jeremy Oreskovich
[email protected]

**"Will Rally For Food"**
 

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Strati ??? Boy are we getting fancy now. The last real Stratos I have seen sold for beaucoup $$$$. But if you want a decent 131 Mirafiori that is already caged drop me an email, I know someone in California who has been holding on to it since Mobby Dick was a minnow.

Keep in mind even a half a$$ nice Escort will kick a 131's (excluding Abarth) rear end all day long. Besides if you decide to get the Escort you will have JV to run to in case of emergency.:7

Cheers

M.Samli
 

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- Yeah, Escort is the way to go!
PS. Every time I'm in Vegas I seen plenty of beautiful Escorts for sale for a good price but my wife doesn't let me to get one...not even to test drive
 

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John,

It's a Sunbeam Imp. I guess I need to start a thread where we can get a list of what is being built and what people would build if the dates were expanded. I think your idea of G2/H combined entry is the only way to go right now. When we get a large enough H field it can be split, and it certainly doesn't harm G2 in any way.

Topi, I saw your name in the guestbook on the website about the Härmän Häjyt rally team. Great pictures, but I can't read finnish. How much do you know about these cars? You can e-mail me off list if you wish.

Steve Spears
 

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RE: IMP

- Great cars! How does 10 000 RPM rally engine sound - in 1960s !?

- I was working extra in Helsinki where they built them and spend lots of time watching how they built and repaired Antti Aarnio Wihuri's "Ralliryhma Harman Haijyt" Imp team.
- Markku Alen started his carrieer there, so did 5-time Candian champ Taisto Heinonen + 30-35 other young Finns during many years
- Good luck with your car and write to those IMP guys (Finnish web site), they'll help you with know-how and spares. They're very good bunch of old timers!
PS. Send a pic of your car, they'll post it.
 

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> Did 2 liter Pintos ever come in MkIs built before whatever the hell the date is?

The Mk 1 RS2000 was sold 74-75. I believe there may have been some early German models made 11/73 ish.

Here is my Mk 1 Twin Cam:
http://www.drizzle.com/~glenn/twink/

The best part of the Mk 1 Escort is steering and balance. Boy you can throw them around.

Most of the rally bits are still very available (Burton Power, Rally Design etc).

Classic Ford magazine in the UK is a great place to find half-prepped cars for cheap, and also tradingpost.com.au can be used to find Aussie cars.

Glenn
 

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RE: RS2000

Great looking car, I bet she runs even better than she looks.

BTW, I think the first Works RS2000 debuted June 20th 1973 by Roger Clark (AOO 674L).

Cheers

M.Samli
 
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