[f2t90]

Im new to this but ive researched it a little and i decided that i will get into rallying after i get out of school (about a year)
Now im planning on building my own car to rally in either Group2 or Group5 club rallies
The cars im considering
An older MK3 supra turbo
89-94 240sx
As you see i think i would prefer something FR
What do you think about these cars and should i do rally cross before i get into club rally?

 

[Greg K]

As a relative newcommer myself, I chose Grp 5 Ford Sierra Cosworth for the dollars/fun ratio (being built of the '04 season). I would recommend going to several events, and getting a feel for what is currently popular and why. Most people will be extremely helpful as long as they aren't thrashing to keep a car going... My personal oppinion, I would be a bit wary of the Turbo Supra, they are very heavy cars and the past ones I've seen have had trouble keeping brakes under them.

Greg,
Crew Chief
1989 GTX #291

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!!!

 

[joeg]

Are you wealthy?

These are neat cars but perhaps a little pricey to develop.

You are better off getting your feet wet with a purchase of a built "popular" car (VW, VOLVO, TOYOTA Corrola, etc).

 

[tom grossmann]

I only have three things to say:
Buy a car,Buy a car ,Buy a car!!!!!
Do not fall in love with some car because you happen to like it. You can buy a starter car for 3-5K , remember you are going to roll this thing.A 240 like a Supra is a heavy pig plus few people run them , so there isn't a lot of support. Think VW rabbit/golf , old rear drive Corolla or RX 7. You'll spend 7-10k building the basic car plus it will take you two years.
Now while saving your pennies , go to an event and work Tech plus a stage;Tech will allow you to see the prep work up close , bieng on a stage crew will give you an idea of the abuse Rally cars indure!!!

Tom Grossmann

 

[mothra]

If you are not in a hurry and are skilled in auto repair/maintenance I would say build your car. It costs a little more but allows you to spread the cost out over time. It also gives you the oppotunity to get to know the car inside and out. I think this will be helpful when it breaks and you have to begin trouble shooting things. Also, if you build your car then you know how it was built (what was built well what not so well).

Most of the rally cars I have seen for $3-5k need a lot of work to be FUN race cars. If you want to start down the path to being the next factory sponsored driver in the US and don't like to work/fix cars then buy a WELL built rally car. Well built rally cars used seem to be $10-20k G2/G5.

So far as what to buy. Look at cars you can buy in your area under $500 as a base car. The less you spend on the base car the more money you can spend prepping it. G2 - Golf, GTI. G5 - xr4ti, rx7, mustang. All in that order.

I am new to this too and after much research I am building an xr4ti for G5. It also looks like it will be taking about a year to build the car. Cahe installed December and we are moving to completion. Look out 2004.

 

[Brian]

You will also find out about the abuse the workers get! Then you can think back when you are driving and treat the workers the way you like to be treated!
Brian

 

[tom grossmann]

"of Course builing you're own car will mean you know how it was built" This is a very good reason to do it yourself. Even when I buy a racer (built two bought four) I go through the car top to bottom as not everyone who works on their race car should be allowed tools.
One other word of advice - who ever welds your cage , remember you are trusting your life to this person. When your car is upside down four feet in the air is not the time to wonder if that friend of a friend who welded the cage for a twelve pack of Bud did a good job!!

Anyway welcomne and have fun , Tom

 

[jake himes]

RE: beat it

You will have more fun rallying if you totally abuse the car. Get something you totally hate, all the better to abuse it.

When you are racing you are going to hear some gutwrenching sounds from rocks hitting your car. It would be a shame to slow down for sentimental reasons.

 

[spoier]

RE: beat it

Who said "a spare shell at home is worth a couple seconds per mile"? Very true.

Anyway, I mostly agree with what everyone else has said.

The Supra is too heavy, the 240SX is too weak. Whatever you do make sure you get something that has been extensively rallied before, because you don't have the experience to start from scratch. Look back at winners in international events from the early 90s because the base cars are dirt cheap now. Unfortunately a lot of the really cool cars were never sold over here but some were sold in disguise (Merkur for instance).

You can build one yourself, if you have the right help, and do a lot of the grunt work yourself for about 7 grand in less than 6 months. Which is exactly what I'm doing, if you're interested, check out my website below.

Good choice on Group 5 or Group 2, definately the best bang for the buck. I don't think Rallycross is a good training ground for Stage rally, its more of an end in itself and if that's what does it for you then that's OK too. It's like how autocross doesn't really translate directly into road racing skills.

Hopefully the powers that be won't delete this post like the last one

Skye Poier
Seattle, WA

Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/

 

[KristenT]

RE: beat it

Definitely get a car that you won't wince every time you hit a rock or bounce off the landscaping. Realize that, sooner or later, you are going to wrap the car around an immovable object; if you can afford to throw it away, you can afford to rally it.

Also definitely work rallies while you either build your car or save up to buy one already built. Our first car was a used Toyota Corolla, and it was a great car. Engine like a mule! We built our Nissans and Mazdas, and bought the Geo mostly built (suspension, a new skidplate, and harnesses are the only changes so far); building is expensive, and NEVER SKIMP ON THE SAFETY!!!

Get your cage built by someone who knows what they are doing. Make sure, if it's not someone who has built rally cages before, that they understand exactly what you will be doing with the car. Show them video of Crash Kings of Rallying, so they understand that bad things happen and you'd like to survive.

Get the rule book, memorize it. Get the rule book to your cage builder. Make sure your co-driver has at least read the rule book once.

And above all, work rallies!! There is absolutely no better way to figure out how to rally than to work. Work timing controls, because then you know how to do it when you compete. Work ATC, Start, Flying Finish, and FTC. Work road marshall so you can see what people do to their cars. And, as Brian says, then you can see how it feels to be abused by some of the "best" teams in the country, and when you compete, you will be nice to workers.

Have fun, welcome to the craziness!

Kristen

 

[Kartwheel]

RE: beat it

As a beginner myself I will add that buying your first car is cheaper and will get you rallying sooner, but building will keep you rallying longer, because when (not if) you wad the car up in a ball you have already got the needed skills to fix it or build another.

 

[f2t90]

RE: beat it

Thanks for the advice guys but i still have a few more questions though
Is rwd better than fwd?
I would think that rwd would be better because i think youll have less understeer or be able to control the understeer.
Ive seen a couple of rally pickup trucks is this a bad idea?
If fwd and rwd dont really make a difference then it shouldnt be that hard for me to find a car.
Sorry for all the stupid questions but i just want to get all of the facts straight before i get into this stuff

 

[Greg K]

RE: beat it

better is relative. I know that's not the answer you want, but it's the best that I can do. I personally enjoy rear wheel drive, and decided that is the way I wanted to go. Matt, the driver I currently work for likes awd and that's his favorite. Kristen T. on the other hand seems to like Fwd and she's probably really comofortable with that. You have to find what you'll be comfortable with, maybe take in a rallycross and see if you like a bit of understeer, or if you like chucking the rear and steering with the throttle. That's the best advice I can give.

Basically, oppinions are like armpits, everybody has them and they all stink <cleaned up slightly for the ladies on the board >.

Greg,
Crew Chief
1989 GTX #291

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!!!

 

[RallyRat]

RE: beat it

>Is rwd better than fwd?
>I would think that rwd would be better because i think youll
>have less understeer or be able to control the understeer.

Yes and no. My limited experience with FWD is that you can concentrate more on your line and less on car control. With RWD you need to balance your front and rear traction constantly (ie. to change your line, you'll probably need to work the throttle and the steering together). I prefer RWD just because there are more variables and its more challenging.

>Ive seen a couple of rally pickup trucks is this a bad idea?

A pickup is a very good idea for beginners, IMO. They're cheap and tough (especially 2wd Japanese ones like nissan, toyota, mazda and mitsu). You may want to get an extended cab depending on your height as the small cab can get cramped with a roll cage.

As for Rallycross...any seat time is good seat time; make it part of your balanced rally driving diet :9 . I like it because you can try out different things on the same course to see what's fastest. Just remember that it probably won't make you a good rally driver and trees hurt a lot more than cones.

Will MacDonald
1968 Volvo 144:

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: beat it

First off stupid would be building a car with 0 knowledge of rally and rally classes , so you are smart to ask a lot of questions.
As to FWD/RWD , understeer or oversteer is a product of car set up not necessarily lay out. We take "borrowed" neons to Rally-X and drive them like sprint cars. I personally like rear drive cars but FWD works well in slippery conditions , so don't rule it out. I would lean towards FWD , as a newbie you are going to be starting in the back so the stage will be thrashed by the time you go through. Now a Mini Pick-up is not a bad idea either for a couple of reasons; If you or the navigator are tall you're not going to fit in say an RX7. The truck parts are already beefier than a sedan , 30-40% of the field doesn't finish or has signifcant problems. The CRS stock class champ for the last three years has run a Toyota pick-up , he admits the other cars are faster but they finish consistently.
Rally is also an endurance test , remember this; a guy named Kieth Wheeler in a stock MGB GT finished ahead of a factory Turbo AWD car at Rim of the World a few years back. People always say well the factory car didn't finish - Exactly my point Kieth finished.
Now don't take our words for it - find the nearist Rally and go see for yourself before you buy or build anything.

Tom Grossmann

 

[f2t90]

RE: beat it

Thank you guys have been a lot of help
Im really thinking about getting a pickup because i know i can get one for dirt cheap
If i can find a ready built rally car around here in the midwest
then i will get it as long as its under $4000 Im from chicago and i need something within like 300 miles for me to get it
Im gonna also try to atleast attend a rally around here

 

[SMS Rallysport]

RE: beat it

A great rally to attend would be Headwaters in May. It's May 9-11 in Park Rapids, MN. This is a nice low-key event where you could meet some of the mid-west locals and learn a ton! Get your hotel reservations early though...it's a popular event!

-Dave

Edit: You could drive from Chicago in 8.5-9.5 hours.

 

[Anders Green]

RE: beat it

For stories and pictures of a guy who was exactly in your position and went out and bought a truck, check out www.linaracing.com.

I've had a blast with it, and it served me faithfully, till I drove
it off a bridge, and then, on the next day, rolled it into a
ravine. So then I put all the good stuff in a new shell ($600
for an entire vehicle!) and it was back to the races.

Nearly indestructable (never a broken A-arm), good clearance, and
there's almost nothing you have to slow down for. 2980 pounds,
something like a 58/42 front/rear weight distribution, 130 ft/pounds torque on an engine with only three or four races on it could be yours for only $2800!

About 20 alloy wheels, spare parts for everything.

On the "needs" side, it has a bolt in roll cage, so all the joints need to be welded up. Also the rocker panels have seen some banks and need some body work.

Why selling? Oh, I bought a Sube. Just going down another road...

Anders
Raleigh, NC

 

[Ray]

I see nobody mentioned anything about trailer and service vehicle.
This all adds up to the bill.

Whiplash RallyeSport

 

[jeffy]

IN CHICAGO !!!
Heck, you should have said so...
There are a bunch of us in W. Michigan (Holland/GR area)
putting on TSD rallies, Ice races, RallyX's and on Sept. 13
a co-of 3 ClubRaly in Cadillac, MI. (5 hours from where you are.)
- we (there are about a dozen of us drivers and codrivers) would be happy to drag you to an event (Rally folk all over are pretty easy to get along with).
Heck- I'll even sell you my 1991 VW GTi Rally car.
4 rallyes- 4 finishes, no hits, rolls or stupid things (that anyone saw me do- hehe) oh yeah, and 1 ice race- last weekend.

jeff secor (just anouther dumb co-driver from Michigan)
[email protected]