[matt b]

Are fines for being late to PE actually levied?

I am trying to gauge how serious of an infraction this really is generally considered and adjust my own attitude as required.

Had the time penalties stood, I know of 2 teams who would have been pushed back into oblivion in the standings.

 

[Mark Larson]

>
>Are fines for being late to PE actually levied?

Yes.

>I am trying to gauge how serious of an infraction this
>really is generally considered and adjust my own attitude as
>required.

If 5 minutes penalty is serious to you, I would suggest you try to be there on time.

>Had the time penalties stood, I know of 2 teams who would
>have been pushed back into oblivion in the standings.

Absolutely, and they should have been. Due to a technicality in the way we applied the penalties, they were all discarded in the interest of fairness (which may not be fair to the teams who showed up on time).

For similar reasons, most of the speeding penalties at the speed traps were discarded.
We were determined to apply them across the board, especially since I told you in the drivers' meeting exactly where the speed traps were! Remember, the reason for the speed traps was to prove to the local citizens who want to drive us out of the forest that we can control our people.

Speeding penalties would have also affected the standings severely.

We're already discussing how to improve our systems next year so the penalties are applied to those who earn them in a way that will stick.

 

[NR]

2 teams??? Try about a dozen.

 

[Widget Codriver]

It was explained to me why arriving at Parc Expose was so important at Ojibwe: sponsors paid good money to put up booths and exhibits there and needed a full and proper collection of cars and teams on hand to make the sport look professional and polished, thus drawing in more visitors (e.g. people to buy stuff).

Note: "professional" doesn't have to mean "paid," but relates to us presenting a positive image of our sport to the fans and supporters.

[hr]

[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com

 

[Rallychick from Oregon]

If the organizers tell you at any point in time that there will be speed traps, and even go so far as to tell you where they will be, I would expect that if I'm caught speeding, I'm going to get slapped with a penalty.

It doesn't matter what level of rally you compete in, Pro or Club: we all have an image to protect, and it only takes one team to screw it up for the rest of us. Be quiet in the Quiet Zones, don't speed on public roads, obey all traffic laws. Try to be on time to the ATC, or at least if you can't avoid being late, have a good reason for it.

And organizers, don't make competitors feel like they have to speed on transits to make it to the ATCs on time, give plenty of time on the transits to make it. Do a TSD calc to figure out how long it should take, then add about 10 minutes or 10%, whichever is more.

Organizers, if you put it in the supps and talk about it in the driver's meeting, it's law. No one should be able to complain about any penalties from breaking the rules you've set in place. All games have rules, otherwise, how can we keep track of who is winning?

 

[Ben]

>For similar reasons, most of the speeding penalties at the
>speed traps were discarded.
>We were determined to apply them across the board,
>especially since I told you in the drivers' meeting exactly
>where the speed traps were! Remember, the reason for the
>speed traps was to prove to the local citizens who want to
>drive us out of the forest that we can control our people.

So then why were only some discarded, especially if you were "determined to apply them across the board"? How can it possibly be fair to discard some of the penalties, but not all of them?

Ben

 

[Bob Olson]

Agreed. But why were some allowed to speed without penalty while others weren't? No big deal, just curious...

 

[matt b]

Mark, I'm absolutely not asking anyone to justify the penalties, espeically for speeding, I am trying to figure this sport out a little bit more.

It was my first time competing and I need some education here

Sometimes the rules get enforced to the harsh end of allowances, sometimes they are more lax, and sometimes, they are brushed aside altogether, so I figured I'd ask about what to expect from this particular rule.

As for the promotion aspect that JD mentions, I wouldn't have bothered to drive 600 miles roundtrip to display my car at the Rallyfest if I didn't want to do what I could to promote the rally.

I would just rather be educated first, punished later, given the choice.

 

[Steve McKelvie]

Maybe some complained that the speed limit was parenthetical information with respect to driving the transit.

Steve

 

[MN_Rallymaster]

I have very strong feelings on this issue as I spent the entire weekend doing the enforcement and was quite flaberghasted at the outcome.

If anyone wishes to discuss things directly, feel free to email me at
brad (dot) odegard (at) usa (dot) net

I do think a couple of people got screwed on the deal and I know an awful lot of teams got away with alot more than they should have.

Brad Odegard

 

[halone]

Anyone know how it was determined who would get penalized and who wouldn't? And who was involved in the decision?

 

[Mark Larson]

>Agreed. But why were some allowed to speed without penalty
>while others weren't? No big deal, just curious...

Bob:

The worst offenders (highest speed recorded) from each night were given the time penalty by the book. One of them may have gotten away with it, too, but frankly, I argued vehemently that the penalty be applied, since that driver had received a warning at Headwaters. I got my way.

The other should feel very greatful for the penalty, since by the rule book the penalty for his speed (greater than 15 over) may include exclusion.

The rest of the offenders will have to deal with Dan Coughnour.

Bob, I'm so hard-nosed on this issue because our use of the forest is at risk, and I even told you in the drivers' meeting where the speed traps would be. If it was up to me, all the penalties would have stuck.

 

[Mark Larson]

>Anyone know how it was determined who would get penalized
>and who wouldn't? And who was involved in the decision?

It was determined by members of the rally committee and the SCCA.

 

[Glenn Wallace]

Can we get car numbers and trap speeds for entertainment purposes?

 

[TNT]

>Can we get car numbers and trap speeds for entertainment
>purposes?

Beat me to that punch line!!
Tina

 

[Mark Larson]

>Can we get car numbers and trap speeds for entertainment
>purposes?

Those are in the possession of the SCCA.

 

[Rallychick from Oregon]

I wasn't going to reply, but then I got to thinking, and well, that always spells trouble.

Paranthetical?! As in, these speed limits as noted here in the route book are just an advisory and NOT the POSTED SPEED LIMITS?! Explain, please!!

KT

 

[matt b]

it's a comment about the fuel only stop at Maine

 

[Rallychick from Oregon]

Steve says, "Maybe some complained that the speed limit was parenthetical information with respect to driving the transit." and I took it to mean that he was talking about the Ojibwe event, not the Maine event.

As these two events are put on by two different groups of organizers, how can one say that this comment has something to do with the fuel stop issue?

If the route book tells you the speed limit, that's the speed limit. I didn't think it was negotiable.

Or are we going on the TSD rules that one of our local groups use, that information in parentheses may be helpful but is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be part of the actual instruction?

 

[Mark Larson]

>Steve says, "Maybe some complained that the speed limit was
>parenthetical information with respect to driving the
>transit." and I took it to mean that he was talking about
>the Ojibwe event, not the Maine event.

I believe Steve was making a joke, Kristen.