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Just another Subaru
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
------Stolen from Rally-America---------
Official Notice posted, 1/29/2005 6:47pm:

It has been decided by the Sno-Drift Organizers and the Rally America Stewards that as a result of the events at the finish of Stage 9, on Jan. 29th 2005, the following penalties will be assessed:

Car 52 Shepherd/Martin - Disqualification for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Car 99 - Iorio/Holter - 2 minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct

Signed:
Rich Olmstead - safety steward
Don Rathgeber - event chairman
Mike Strawbrige - event steward
Paul Westwick - operations steward
----------------------------------------------

Well I know Doug S. is not a hot head and know about the crash with S. Burke but what did they do?

Same with Iorio what did they do?
 

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From the R-A web site:

Matthew Iorio was knocked into fourth place after being assessed a two-minute penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct during a tit-for-tat exchange with veteran driver Doug Shepherd at the end of Stage 9. Shepherd was disqualified.

"Disappointed doesn't quite cover it," said a subdued Iorio after learning of the decision.

The pair evidently exchanged words and jostled for position during the bottleneck that formed after Burke's disabled vehicle blocked the Stage 9 finish Saturday. Appeals were expected.

xxx

Bummer, two good guys.
 

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Just another Subaru
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
>From the R-A web site:

>
>The pair evidently exchanged words and jostled for position
>during the bottleneck that formed after Burke's disabled
>vehicle blocked the Stage 9 finish Saturday. Appeals were
>expected.
>

What does that mean?

What did they do that would be considered unsportsmen like.

Exchanged words? is that what got them in trouble.
 

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Erik,
In the heat of competition, almost anyone can become a "hothead." I am not finding fault with either team, but I suspect that the biggest issue is that they are alleged to have "jostled for position." I don't think jostling for position is something that most safety stewards would tolerate.
It's unfortunate for all involved. Things can happen very quickly, and one person's wrong actions can influence another to engage in less than perfect behavior. My takeaway is "note to self: try not to ever get caught up in something like that."
Dave
 

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And, from the "R-A Live" web site the latest "final word":

The protest committee has come to a decision, they have rescinded the competition penalties on Car 99, Iorio / Holter and Car 52, Shepherd / Martin. Other disciplinary actions have been assessed that do no not affect the results of SnoDrift.

They are as follows:

1/29/2005 10:58 PM
Official Notice
Decision of the Protest Committee

A protest committee was convened to adjudicate the protest (1) filed by the competitors of car Car 52, Shepherd / Martin (Shepherd/Martin) protesting the disqualification of car Car 52, Shepherd / Martin as noted in the Official Notice of 1/29/2005 6:47 PM.

The protest committee was comprised of:

Mike Strawbridge, Chairman
Jeff Secor
Christian Edstrom

The protest committee interviewed affected parties, and reviewed written and video evidence. Based on the evidence and testimony, the protest committee finds as follows:

1) The protest is well founded and the $50 protest fee is to be refunded to the competitor.
2) The decision of the stewards is affirmed in principle
3) The penalty is adjusted as follows:
a. The disqualification is rescinded
b. The competitor is placed on 12 months probation
c. The competitor is assessed a $400 fine for unsportsmanlike conduct
d. The competitor will be sent a letter of reprimand


1/29/2005 11:07 PM
Official Notice
Decision of the Protest Committee

A protest committee was convened to adjudicate the protest (2 & 3) filed by the competitors of car Car 99, Iorio / Holter (Iorio/Holter) and car Car 52, Shepherd / Martin (Shepherd/Martin) protesting the 2 minute penalty of car Car 99, Iorio / Holter as noted in the Official Notice of 1/29/2005 6:47 PM.

The protest committee was comprised of:

Mike Strawbridge, Chairman
Jeff Secor
Christian Edstrom

The protest committee interviewed affected parties, and reviewed written and video evidence. Based on the evidence and testimony, the protest committee finds as follows:

1) The protests are well founded and the $50 protest fee is to be refunded to each of the protesting competitors (#99 and Car 52, Shepherd / Martin)
2) The decision of the stewards is affirmed in principle
3) The penalty is adjusted as follows:
a. The 2 minute penalty assessed to car Car 99, Iorio / Holter is rescinded
e. The competitor (#99) is assessed a $100 fine for unsportsmanlike conduct
f. The competitor (#99) will be sent a letter of reprimand


xxx

This puts Matthew back into 2nd place (yay).

Jim Blumenfeld
 

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I'll engage in a bit of guessing....Seems like I read a release that Shepherd had pulled over at an earlier start to Let Richard get in front of him, since it made no sense to be in front of a fast driver on a narrow road. I would wonder if Iorio made the assumption that Shepherd would pull over for similar reasons, tried to move past him at the start of a later stage, and the response was 'no way', expressed either verbally, with the car, or ????? Just speculation......

Well, no matter why, I know that Mr. Shepherd is a very good person, and I will presume the Mr Iorio is too, and that events which could effect anyone resulted in a less than honorable incident. But, I hope that they won't feel that anyone holds either in any less regard for this; it can happen to any of us, and will happen to many of us. I am pleased that their penalties were modified to the extent that they were.

Regards,
Mark B.
 

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What we really need is more idle speculation! I know nothing other than what I've read on here and RA (and I do know both competitors), so let me also pose an irresponsible unconfirmed guess!

I suspect Iorio was already ahead of Shepherd on the road, likely the first guy behind Burke. Then I'm guessing after the first responders had determined that it was not a red cross incident, Shepherd decided that he thought he could squeeze past Burke's car, and that therefore they may all be on the stage time clock. Iorio may have disagreed that leading the rest of the cars through the narrow blockage area was not the best idea. Shepherd then may have decided that he was willing to lead through, and let Iorio know in his most pleasant tone. And Iorio may have been disinclined to be passed.

Having a caustic guy like Ole in the right seat can only throw napalm on the fire. OK, I'm totally kidding about that part!

How's that for misrepresentation?
 

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L1 !!! HPR into HPL
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And, to add a fact, Doug is deaf or nearly deaf in one ear so that may or may not have had something to do with the incident.

I'm with Rick, all I know and that's pretty much the same for everyone are the comments made on Rally-America, and those don't tell a lot so let's all wait until the facts are known before speculating.


David Weiman
rallydave at pobox dot com
 

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The protest committee interviewed affected parties, and reviewed written and "video" evidence.

???

Curious,
Cat
 

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There's definitely a shortage of speculation on this. I bet it all had to do with somebody wanting to get back to service quickly to rebuild his car.
 

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>The protest committee interviewed affected parties, and
>reviewed written and "video" evidence.
>
>???
>
>Curious,
>Cat

in car cameras are more than just used to put stages on TV or learn about what you did, they can also be used in protests and appeals.
 

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Heh, we were told the exact opposite at the awards ceremony by RA personell (although ours was a timing issue, didn't involve the DS/MI incident at all). :D

>
>in car cameras are more than just used to put stages on TV or
>learn about what you did, they can also be used in protests
>and appeals.
 

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Screw what happened on 9. What happened in the protest committee?

After bellyaching a bit about my 4.5 min. penalty for going 32 mph, I was told "Lurch, you f'd up. Take your medicine. But here is the good news...the medicine will be administered EVENLY for all from now on. No more bullsh.."

I said "Fine. I believe you. And I admit that I f'd up."

Then the Dougie BS. The four-letter acronym that ran the sport may
be gone, but the OBN LIVES ON! And it continues to make a mockery of this sport in the US.

Reversing a penalty, but keeping them on probation sends the wrong message. Either they were guilty and earned the penalty or they were innocent and it should be thrown away. This kid gloves thing sends the message to all that you should protest everything in hopes of a lighter sentence. And the louder and longer you whine, the better your chances. That's what I learned from it anyway.

Unfortunately, I missed my chance for an appeal, but I'm sure it would be lost in OBN politics...in fact, I was told so.

Perhaps the most disheartening thing is the fact that I keep losing respect for guys who I thought of as heroes when I was 12 years old.
 

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>I will post a summary of what happened by 7pm on Sunday.
>
>EDIT: No, it'll be Monday. I have to talk to JB first.

The waiting at awards and class podium finish without the winner gets me confused. Better than waiting months like after MaineForest04.
 

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>I think the real question is how can 15 teams come up on a
>impassible situation and not throw a red cross?

And if there is no red cross or OK sign displayed at an accident, competitors must treat it as if it were a red cross, not jocky for position.
 

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Red cross or no, if there is no sign (either OK or RC) you are OBLIGATED to stop. Period. The fact that 15 cars are lined up and nearly blocking the road should be an indicator that something is wrong, yes. The triangles and workers waving their arms should have been a clue as well, but if no sign, you stop.
 

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One BIG difference here.

The Stewards' decision was overturned via the result of a protest handled by a process, as opposed to fiat from on high.

I'm reserving judgement until we hear real details. Most of us posting here have no idea what really happened.

Lurch,

I know you may not feel like it's fair right now, and it may not be relative to other tings that happened, but I think I speak for all of the MN organizers when I say that I'm very glad to see that O control penalties are actually being applied.

--
Mark Holden
KC0SUW
 

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Agreed, Mark. That's why I did not argue the point. I did indeed earn the penalty. Not saying that I didn't and I don't mean to compare apples to oranges.

I just hoped that justice would be administered fairly FOR ALL from now on. Call it youthful optimism for Rally America's sake.

Giving in to the protest sure sends a strong message to us about how we should treat our penalties, even when we do earn them, in the future.
 
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