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400 flat to crest
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Logically, there should be 1 turbo 4wd class.
And strangling all competitiors cars with some weenie 32 or 34mm restrictor because 1-2 guys want to go play at some International event is STUPID in the extreme.

Seems better that the people who wish to build GpN or GpA 34mm spec cars should do that, those that want top build other 4wd turbo cars _should build THOSE_.

There is no reason to reference International rules or especially _limitations_ for domestic classes.
EVERY COUNTRY HAS THEIR OWN NATIONAL CLASSES.


Free the Turbos
Up with the 40mm.




John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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don't cut
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2,252 Posts
I'm lobbying for the 40mm plugs, but ultimatly it will be an insurance decision. Here's a thought though. We could all just show up with 40mm restrictors. What are they gonna do? I suppose they might not let us start, but unlikely.

By the way, JB told me the other day that in order to make up for the 34mm plugs, he was going to get us all hookers. Honestly, that's what he promised! What do you think Leon, 34mm and hookers? Might not be that bad.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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John, I agree with a lot of what you say and a lot of your ideas, but this is not one of them. Rally was just dumped by the SCCA because of rally concerns. Allowing faster and faster cars to rally would be a mistake and could threaten rally in the US altogether. We can show 34mm restrictors to insurance companies and say "we do it the same way as the rest of the world, there is no unknown out-of-control factor here".
 

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400 flat to crest
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5,777 Posts
>John, I agree with a lot of what you say and a lot of your
>ideas, but this is not one of them. Rally was just dumped by
>the SCCA because of rally concerns. Allowing faster and
>faster cars to rally would be a mistake and could threaten
>rally in the US altogether. We can show 34mm restrictors to
>insurance companies and say "we do it the same way as the
>rest of the world, there is no unknown out-of-control factor
>here".
Except that since late 1998 the 34mm WRC cars have become approximately 3 mph faster on average than previously, and that is approximately the same sort of increase between the old Gp4 cars and the GpB cars.
The restrictors power losses are easily compensated for by cubic dollars.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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678 Posts
>Except that since late 1998 the 34mm WRC cars have become
>approximately 3 mph faster on average than previously, and
>that is approximately the same sort of increase between the
>old Gp4 cars and the GpB cars.
>The restrictors power losses are easily compensated for by
>cubic dollars.

Sure, but think of Mr. Insurance Actuary looking over the data about US rally:

"Hmmm... lets see, there have been 5 deaths in US rally in the last 3 or 4 years. Hmmm... what??? The whole world uses 34mm restrictors to restrict power, except these American crazies?"

We can also add to Mr. Joe Insurance Actuary's findings the fact that US rallies don't have an average speed limit like most of the world does (an assumption, based on most of the world following FIA rules mostly), and that we have no restrictions with regards to who can drive what cars with what level of experience. But I believe that you think the same way I do on these two issues.
 

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guys, how many times do we have to discuss the same issue over and over again. Its like the a certain "group" in US politics; the pro-40 crowd is most vocal and tirelessly rekindles the same debates over and over again.

In canada we went to 34mm. At the beginning of ANY national event, there are AT LEAST 6 guys who honestly believe that THEY have a chance to win the rally. And I think that there are at least 2 more with outside shots. in snow or low grip events, PGT and/or Grp N have shots at podiums.

It makes people drive harder, it makes you push harder, it makes better competition, which makes better TV, better for the spectators, and better marketing. And the whole field is closer. And it will showcase driving talent more, because the 'bang' for 'big big big dollars' is still hard to notice, and is always outperformed by better driving.
 

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All the calls for 40mm restrictor are just a rehash of the same old thing. I've watched 40mm cars and 34mm cars and as a spectator, I can't tell the difference.

One thing I do know is that in Canada, there are a number of cars that are capable of winning. In the end it comes down to driver skill and car prep.

I can't speak to the cost of change or the effect on the cars, I can only tell you that the commitment level from all the top drivers is incredible to see.

Any thread here talks about ways to reduce risk. Less power due to the use of restrictors is one of the ways the reduce risk. Funnily enough, no one seems to be talking about it there.

Maybe I'll go and stir them up!
}>
 

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SURF!!! I'll cover you myself!
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663 Posts
There are several good reasons to go 34mm

1. It gives the correct impression to insurance providers, sponsors, landowners and the public in general with regards to safety.

2. As Pat states above, and I've said a number of times, it will condense the upper end of the field makeing comptetition closer for all. Really rewarding good drivers, not expensive open class cars. 34mm puts a guy like Stephan V that much closer to a Seamus type of guy, it's now down to the driving.

3. There is not a single rally specific gearbox made for AWD turbo cars that was intended to be plugged into a 40mm engine. Engines, Axles, CVs, propshafts etc etc. etc all last longer with 34mm. Prodrive realized this and their last SCCA car had a spaceship gearbox with all kinds of ##### bolted to it, just to cope with the 40mm engine. The production based box used in 2002 had skatter sheilds to protect the driver/codrivers legs from 40mm bomb.

flame away

peter
 

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don't cut
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>guys, how many times do we have to discuss the same issue
>over and over again. Its like the a certain "group" in US
>politics; the pro-40 crowd is most vocal and tirelessly
>rekindles the same debates over and over again.
>

Had this argument already. I though I won. You thought you won.

I told JB I was right. He agreed, but said risk management (including RA's) will trump all. I wouldn't accept it. He threw in hookers. I accepted. }>

JB, they better not be cheap VW type hookers. I wan't Prodrive caliber hookers!

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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Faster Mabricator
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3,611 Posts
>There are several good reasons to go 34mm

Add.
34mm aligns with current CARS rules making competing in both countries easier for teams wishing to do so and give some uniformity to NARC.
 

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SURF!!! I'll cover you myself!
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663 Posts
Prodrive stuff breaks to easy.


Ever seen a Corona girl?



The hooker thing reminds me of what Dale E. Sr said a few years back when asked about the anti restrictor plate crowd. He said something about the probelm was actually the feathers on the legs of such whinners, chickens!!!!


pete
 

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Trogdor
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915 Posts
>We can also add to Mr. Joe Insurance Actuary's findings the
>fact that US rallies don't have an average speed limit like
>most of the world does (an assumption, based on most of the
>world following FIA rules mostly), and that we have no
>restrictions with regards to who can drive what cars with
>what level of experience. But I believe that you think the
>same way I do on these two issues.

So let's add them. We need them, regardless of what Mr. Joe Insurance Actuary might feel.

Look at it on this level:

People starting out in lower class cars forces them to develop better driving skills before they move "up" to the faster stuff.

This potentially means not only better racing in the upper classes, but (hopefully) fewer incidents, which not only means lower insurance costs but also more entrants. Not everybody can rebuild a wreck in time for the next rally.

It also means, as people move up in classes, that lower class cars go up for sale. This is ideal for people who want to move into the sport, (more entrants) since buying an existing car IS cheaper than building, and buying also means you get to enter sooner (more entrants).

As for restrictions on average speed, well, who DOESN'T want more interesting stages?
 
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