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Those videos were a lot of what looked to be raw footage that was very similiar to the RallyTV Sno Drift footage, could it be that to help make the DVDs sell that the SCCA wanted them down, I don't know....
 

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:7 I am honored at the suggestion of this. But, alas... it is not true.

The Rallymovies dot com guy did not get prior approval from the SCCA to use thier logos or name, thereby infriging on copyrights. Whereas we (Rally TV) got all necessary approvals beforehand, and obtained proper media credentials(which can be a pain).

Now, with that said, I do think that RM dot com got the raw end of the deal. It was a good idea to take footage in that way & offer them for sale. As a competitor, I thought it was great to see ourselves from the exact same angle, doing the exact same corners as the front runners, to compare & critique. He made it at a very minimal cost & sold them for a fair price. The bummer is he advertised it with SCCA logos all over it.

I think that anyone who videotapes a rally (like he did) from legal,public spectator points(like he did) should be able to do whatever they want with that footage. Just like photos.

This is similar to what happened to us when we wanted to film Rim 04. The Rim leader (play on words :)) Asked us up front what was in it for the organizers. Since I had no budget to offer, they decided on a different company/group to film there. That IS their purogative though, as they retained all their media rights. We basically were not eligible for credentials at that point, because our intention was to sell our footage. Ray did what was best for the event. That is understandable(a bummer, but understandable).

It appears we have funding for Maine Forest. I will issue an official post soon. THe whole STPR, no STPR thing was a real bite. It looks like Maine will be the next Rally TV release, and with far more stage footage & none of my ugly mug.

JC
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www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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Oddly enough, and probably because a lot of the tape is "talking heads", many people are using it to educate their regions, friends, and potential sponsors about the sport.
 

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I know you would have liked more action on the Sno*Drift tape. Sometimes circumstances hand you lemons. You made lemonade. My comments above point out the unintended, but beneficial side effect of your perseverence. The tape is devoid of the usual "I was going So-o-o-o-o fast" chest thumping. It presents real people in real situations. That's why it is so interesting to the "civilian" population.
 

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Thank you Joe. That means alot. (I only wish I had a camera with us when we were digging thru that snowbank for the mas cyl with a dirt shovel & bare hands- Damn that was funny. Well, not at the time...)
:7

I cant wait til Maine. We have lots of cool stuff in the works that will keep it informative, but more exciting too I hope.

JC
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Intellectual property is a complex subject, and not generally well understood. When you take a picture of something happening in a public place, YOU own the rights to that particular picture. You can display it or publish it any way you want, and you have what's called "common law copyright" on that image. SCCA was protecting the rights to their copyrighted logos, NOT stopping a photographer from publishing his work. The fact that SCCA may have been visible on the cars is not something they can control.

An organizer of an event in a public place that allows you in with your camera can't control how you use YOUR images of that event. They CAN, however, control how you use their copyrighted name to refer to your pictures.

The law also protects legitimate newsgathering...although in this Internet age, what that means is open to some interpretation. Some say if you publish for profit, it's not "newsgathering"...but newspapers and TV stations make a profit, too. We're not talking about the First Amendment at all here, because there's no "state action" involved - only private parties.

Bruce
Free legal advice - worth every penny
 

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Any chance of the Rallymovies guys working WITH the RallyTV guys to help film the action and create a better product, increased distribution, and so you aren't fighting for the same market? Don't know if they'd be willing to work with you after a c&d order, but it might be a win-win-win for all involved. ??
 

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From what I understand, yes. It was the logo/copyright infringment that caused the action.

Please keep in mind, this is only what I have heard. I was also contacted by the SCCA for the same issue, as they confused us with the RAmovies person initially. We(Rally TV) were already approved & whatnot from Garrett & Howard prior to S*D. I actually posted to that effect, so no one would confuse us.

IF anyone else has better insight, by all means please clarify. I am by no means a lawyer, nor do I know all the details of the SCCA's extent of media rights(or any sanctioning body for that matter). I only know that we followed all the necessary steps per the SCCA to obtain the right to do what we do.

JC
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If anyone knows that person, I would love to talk with him, as Lurch is 100% correct.
Please have him email or call me!

JC
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I was pretty bummed when he took the video's off his website.

He had some good footage of us, including our monster spin at the speccie area...

I dont understand why he was forced to take the video's off his website, he wasnt charging for them, just rally video's on a website... Like 1000's of other fans....

It just makes the SCCA look bad, and reduces the amount of media availible to the public. Alot of people I know had watched those video's.
 

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I dont know how hard they scolded him, but I know a cease & desist order was threatened. AS it should have been for logo/copyright infringement. I remember Curtis giving ME a nastygram before we got it straightened out. :)

As Bruce stated, it appears there was no reason he couldnt post/show the clips on the web had he not used the logos and advertised them for sale with the logos.

He was selling DVD-R's of all the footage for around $10. Really a good deal, as there was alot of footage. I would guess that it wasnt worth the threat of legal action he rcvd.

I'd like to have him join us for Maine.

RMdotcom dude!- If you are out there- call or email me!

JC
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> It just makes the SCCA look bad, and reduces the amount of
>media availible to the public. Alot of people I know had
>watched those video's.

I disagree that it makes SCCA look bad. As a member, I expect them to protect MY intellectual property. If they had done their homework, they would not have had a problem.

Bruce
 

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Knee-jerk reaction. Right action is to contact filmmaker and tell him he does not have authority to use trademarked images in the SCCA logo. Pay or stop distributing. Possibly pay a portion of past profits.

But Mssrs. SCCA: is it really a good idea to restrict what little coverage exists of us in the forests? Who's side are you on?

ACP, esq.
Flirting with the laws of physics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
on the copyright note, Pou's videos prominantly display the WRC logo at the end and they are arguably the most viewed rally videos in N.A. David Richards owns the broadcast rights to WRC and I would assume also the logo, and most assuradly his legal department is larger then SCCA's, yet Pou's vid's still are abe to be hosted and downloaded. It seems the SCCA wishs to make it all the more difficult for people to follow our sport, the fan videos are excellent free exposure. I don't have cable t.v. and really the only way for me to see some events is via videos and photos, as is probably the case with others. It'd be great if SCCA would actually host the videos, or provide links, themselves as it would be great P.R. and could only further intrest in the series and possibly attract new members, participants and perhaps even sponsers.
Josh
 
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How do we know this isn't want happened?

Have you seen the Gumball 3000 (I think) video with the Saturn rally car in it, in full SCCA vidual ID gear, running around town and generally being a hooligan?

I think JC mentioned that the SCCA had to approve the final video prior to it being released with the inclusion of any SCCA IP.

I guess I don't see a huge problem with the SCCA asking them to not use their logos.

If I were a media producer, I'd hope I understand copyright and trademarks at least as well as I do as an engineer now.
 

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That is correct. Anything we make must be approved for logo use prior to release to the public.

Getting the usage was not a mountain of red tape, however it did delay the release about a week or so.

So far the only problems I have had were getting credentials in a timely fashion, but I realize Curtis has lots on his plate & is often out of the office.

We hope to post addtl clips on the net(freebie downloads) after filming Maine.

WHomever would like to be a part of filming Rally TV is more than welcome to add their footage, via using Rally TV access & committing to assist, or via simply shooting something cool at a speccie point. ANy footage we can get will be considered for use(with full credits of course).

JC
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