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Hey Mussie

How do we know your poll questions are representative of the SCCA rally membership in general.
Is this an approved forum for asking questions about other forums.



"No, Mongo! Never kill a customer!"



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

If the PRB were really interested in your opinions, they would accept input from all sources. As it is, we use this forum and are told to e-mail the PRB. So we e-mail the PRB and are told to use the SCCA forum. So we use the SCCA forum and are told to write Sue.

News flash folks: the comment period is a farce. The rules have already been decided, and if PRB wanted your opinion, they would beat it out of you. Sorry, JB(et. al.), your job is to take membership input from whatever source and use it to administer performance rally. You are not doing that.
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

>News flash folks: the comment period is a farce. The rules
>have already been decided, and if PRB wanted your opinion,
>they would beat it out of you. Sorry, JB(et. al.), your job
>is to take membership input from whatever source and use it
>to administer performance rally. You are not doing that.

Then what are all those e-mails (most from people who post on this forum) that are forwarded to me, and the voting members of the PRB?

When e-mails are sent to Sue or J.B, they are forwarded to everyone on the list, included in the agenda, and discussed during the PRB conference call.
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

"The polls are a really nice idea, but let me say this... I'm not going to take them very seriously for three reasons.
1. I have limited confidence in the security of the SCCA site.
2. I have no way of knowing how representitive the polls are, in other words they only represent the opinions of those who vote, and really endorse the opinions of those who vote multiple times (see #1).
3. The rules posted for member comment are not proposed rules. They are topics for member comment. The PRB has received dozens of thoughtful letters on a all of the topics. We have received some irrational comments as well (FYI, "Restrictors suck" while entertaining, is not a convincing agruement). I've read all of them and I fully expect that every member of the PRB will read all of them. Here's my point; these letters are infinately more valuable than any unscientific poll.

so... write an e-mail to Sue Robinson... please tell us what you think."

This was copied from another post. If you go back through the archives, you will find many admonitions from PRB members not to post input here, there, or many other places. I believe we were told not long ago to use the official SCCA forums to discuss rule changes. That is contradicted by the statement above. I'll repeat; the PRB should take input from members whatever its source.
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

I hate to ask, but I gots to know: who is Mongo, and what movie was he in? This is cracking me up & I don't even know why. :)

-Isaac
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

Blazing Saddles, played by Alex Karras. If you haven't seen it, go rent the movie. It is one of Mel Brooks' best.
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

Even PRB members have lives outside of rally. So why don't we help them to stream line their responsibilities by submiting our comments to the one source that they are responsible for watching. Otherwise they have to find hunt around and find your input on various site etc... wasting more of their time, making them less productive, and removing any chance of them missing your comments on some site.

Be considerate, they are volunteers with real lives outside of rally.

Jeff Burmeister
SpecialStage.com
The North American Rally Resource
http://www.SpecialStage.com
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

>I believe we were told not long ago to use the official SCCA
>forums to discuss rule changes. That is contradicted by the
>statement above. I'll repeat; the PRB should take input from
>members whatever its source.

Comments, yes. Polls, no. For the same reasons JB put up there. And the fact that polls can be and usually are worded to achieve a desired result. I've been accused of this myself, and I didn't even know I was stacking the cards.

Using the other (SCCA) forum for officially recognized comment is a good thing, in my opinion. But not polls.
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

You are right; the PRB members are volunteers, and I know how much time it takes. I certainly have nothing against any of the members(which is different from disagreeing on issues). If I sound a bit harsh, it is only because I don't believe the constituency is being heard. The fact is that PRB members monitor this and other forums. They also speak to SCCA members and competitors at events. Sometimes they take phone calls from members. It is easy to distribute input to other board members(whatever the source of that input) via e-mail. I believe, at the top of the list of PRB duties, is the responsibility to hear member input. By being iconoclastic about the means of receiving said input, the PRB does the membership a disservice. As an SCCA member, ProRally license holder, and member of the Sno*Drift organizing committee, I have a right to my opinion about such things, and this is it.
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

Candygram for Mongo.....

:7
 

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Discussion Starter #12
RE: Hey Mussie

And that goes to prove that you are the leading................

I love Blazing Saddles.

So the SCCA forum is official, the comments posted there are official but polls are not. Can I have a list of what's official and what's not so that I don't waste my damn time, just like the PRB I have a job and I'm not expecting any monetary benefit from the polls or the effort I put in to get the pulse of the people.

Can anybody show me where I asked the PRB to decide parallel to the poll results, did I even hint that ? The polls are there for information purposes. I believe JB was the first person to bring the "scientific" argument to the issue. C'mon guys don't exaggerate and don't put words in my mouth.

I really don't understand why people get so worked up, so defensive when the topic is the rule changes. Do we really need rule changes every year ? Can't we leave the rules alone for a few years ? Then we may have a SCIENTIFIC (here I said it) result and see if we really need to change anything.

Have fun playing.

M.Samli
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

Thanks Mike and Eric for the words of support... clearly Uncle Joe has some inside information that even I don't have about the 2005 rules.

When I opened these discussions up and decided to actively participate in them, I also opened myself up to criticism about the rules. That's fine... as a matter of fact its good.

What I don't need is someone telling me that the decisions have already been made or that the member discussion period is just BS.

J.B. Niday
www.nidayrallysport.com
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

No, I don't think they should, unless membership on the board is limited to people with SCCA memberships (which I doubt it is).

Couldn't rabblerousing Canadians then sign up and push for rule changes that have nothing to do with us, just for laughs (some of us do have the intarweb)? Or couldn't I use a bunch of different email addresses to sign up for new accounts and skew results my way?

Patrick "If you shoot him, you'll just make him mad." McVeigh
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

>believe the constituency is being heard. The fact is that
>PRB members monitor this and other forums. They also speak
>to SCCA members and competitors at events. Sometimes they
>take phone calls from members. It is easy to distribute
>input to other board members(whatever the source of that
>input) via e-mail. I believe, at the top of the list of PRB
>duties, is the responsibility to hear member input. By being
>iconoclastic about the means of receiving said input, the
>PRB does the membership a disservice. As an SCCA member,
>ProRally license holder, and member of the Sno*Drift
>organizing committee, I have a right to my opinion about
>such things, and this is it.

The following is just my opinion, I can't speak for other members of the PRB.

I read the forums, I look at Mustafa's polls, I talk to folks. But that's just me. I don't have a life, I have time to do that stuff. Do I print what people have to say here for my files? Yes, I do. But that is just the way I operate.

To have your ideas heard by the entire PRB, they need to be sent to Sue for circulation. That is the sure-fire way to contact the entire group. If I get an e-mail that I think the board should read, heck yeah I'll forward it to Sue for distribution. You can reach some individual members of the PRB by posting here, but not all of the PRB members read these forums. Should they? I don't think so, but I don't think it's unreasonable to monitor the SCCA forums. I agree with Joe in the sense that I feel there is an obligation to hear the members. But not everybody who posts here is a member. I don't want this to sound like I don't want to hear what non-members have to say, far from it. I value everybody's opinions, but I don't feel the *obligation* to hear from non-members.

I have to confess that I am surprised by how few e-mails and calls I've personally gotten about the rules change proposals.

And, to address one of Joe's earlier posts, no, the rules changes have not already been decided upon. That is why we are having this comment period; it is not just a facade for a deep dark conspiracy.

Ben
PRB Member
 

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RE: Hey Mussie

And if every one who rallys actually has internet access.

"So somebody ride back to town and get a sxxt pot full of dimes."
Richard
 

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No, not Blazing Saddles. Python!!!

>


Folks the line is not from the epic triumph of cinema from the genius Mel Brooks.
That was Mondo.
It is from the Monty Python skit about the dirty spoon, Eric Idle being the simpering fawning Head Waiter who apologizes to extermes for the little spec on the spoon and it goes from there.
Cleese is the cook who in a barely supressed rage twists and in a distorted face manages to berate the poor cutomers who he says in reference to the sobbing Headwaier "this noble soul whose boots you are not fit to LICK!!!!!!..........GGGGGGRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr!" and then plants his huge cleaver in the middle of their table. At that point somebody rushes forward and restains him and wrestles him back and says that wonderful line (which by the way is my motto in my business!!!!!) No. Mongo!........

Truth in disclosure, at that point last night, my wife burst out laughing and said "That's you!!!!"

Ask Skye Poier.
Or Dave Clark.

PS, you guys now understand how nice and sweet and restained I am here on SS?



And that goes to prove that you are the
>leading................
>
>I love Blazing Saddles.
>
>So the SCCA forum is official, the comments posted there are
>official but polls are not. Can I have a list of what's
>official and what's not so that I don't waste my damn time,
>just like the PRB I have a job and I'm not expecting any
>monetary benefit from the polls or the effort I put in to
>get the pulse of the people.
>
>Can anybody show me where I asked the PRB to decide parallel
>to the poll results, did I even hint that ? The polls are
>there for information purposes. I believe JB was the first
>person to bring the "scientific" argument to the issue.
>C'mon guys don't exaggerate and don't put words in my mouth.
>
>I really don't understand why people get so worked up, so
>defensive when the topic is the rule changes. Do we really
>need rule changes every year ? Can't we leave the rules
>alone for a few years ? Then we may have a SCIENTIFIC
>(here I said it) result and see if we really need to change
>anything.
>
>Have fun playing.
>
>M.Samli
Mussi-baby cheeks, you neglected to mention that all you intended with the words "take into consideration" was just that, some consideration, not that polls were to be definative and or binding, I told you to use the words "as a test to 'gauge the waters' or dip the toe in to get an idea.


PS to all the movie fans here, I feel sometimes as if the "ignore all forms of communicatiions except......" BS that is thrown back constantaly reminds me of when "Central Services" are stopped dead in their tracks because they dont have "form 6325776/h" in that great film Brazil.

You PRB boys _OUGHT_ to accept INCOMING information anywhere and any format you become aware of it, even if you give forth "Oafish-al Prononciementos" only thru oafish-al channels.
The language, spelling, format etc should not matter, the INFORMATION
contained in the communication should.

More film references will follow.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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Discussion Starter #18
RE: Hey Mussie

>
>Couldn't rabblerousing Canadians then sign up and push for
>rule changes that have nothing to do with us, just for
>laughs (some of us do have the intarweb)? Or couldn't I use
>a bunch of different email addresses to sign up for new
>accounts and skew results my way?
>

I whish I haven't left my sense of humour home today. On the other hand your comment is proof enough of your real intentions.

Here is a solution, If SCCA would stop sending me the Sportscar Magazine I'd gladly let them use the excess cash from my membership dues to mail me polls which I would return back filled. This way we can keep the Canajian Evildoers out of our own business, save some trees, avoid aggravation and undue expectations of seeing meaningful rally coverage in a magazine I laugh at and last but not least make SCCA happy by using snail-mail. Anybody wanna join me ?

We can make a poll for it. Just kidding.

Cheers

M.Samli
 

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RE: No, not Blazing Saddles. Python!!!

>I understand your reference, and not to pick nits, but...
>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/
geeeeeze, that's what great about life, you learn something new every day.

Wait! This wasn't an oafish-al Film Forum so I think I'll have to disregard your message!
please send an email to Mel and Co. and ask them to send me a candygram.

Been losing hearing for 30 years at better racetracks the world over.






John Vancandygram (an old nick name two naughty girls who both sorta liked me used to call me, never knew why, but I shooooor weren't questioning what was going on alternate nights if ya know what I mean and I think you do, say no more,SAY NO MORE!
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 
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