[BVG927]

For those of us that compete in the a divisional series..
aka regional clubrally championships. Should RallySprint events and Solo 1 events count as points towards the regional championship. Such as one rallysprint that is listed as three different coefficient 1 events, making 3 coefficient clubrally points available. By breaking up the event into smaller pieces you can essentially reach the same coeff. Level as a 60+ mile stage event. Without all the additional challenges that a 60 stage mile rally would involve. I am not saying that rallysprints are easy. And I would like to take part in one if I could. But it seems that you do run the same short roads over and over. And there are no transits or service and time restrictions. It just seems to me that Rally points should be earned at rally events. If there were enough Rally sprints throughout the year, someone could easily win a class championship without ever competing in a rally.
Is that right ?? Am I the only one that thinks this way ?

-Brian

 

[RichardM]

To rephrase your question, should coefficient 1 rallys count for points? Put that way, does that change your apparent opinion?

Richard

 

[Lancia037Rally]

I think the situation in the NEDiv where there may be 9 coefficient 1 rallysprints all at the same venue, there should be some sort of limitation on the number of coefficients earned at a single venue, say your best 3 rallysprints at that location. Otherwise, our ClubRally championship has become a RallyPark NE RallySprint championship.

Brain,
Interested in becoming the NEDiv ClubRally steward? Far as I know the position has not been filled. You're the man.

 

[Walter Clark]

At least the playing field within the NER was the same for all.

Although RPNE is somewhat limited (or more convienent, depending on how you view these things) as you suggest its what we had available this year - with the loss of nearly everything else.

 

[Lancia037Rally]

The number of out-of-division events counted toward the championship should be raised from 7 coefficients to 9 if 9 rallysprints at the same location are counted this season. That way competitors participating in 'real' rallies also have a change at winning the division's ClubRally championship.

Edit: paint fume induced blantant math error

 

[Adrian Wintle]

> The number of out-of-division events counted toward the
>championship should be raised from 7 coefficients. 7 is a
>prime # and cannot be made of counting coefficient 2 or 3
>events without including an out-of-divsion coefficient 1. No
>drivers nor codrivers have entered an out-of-division
>coefficient 1 this season. Too far to tow for a short amount
>of seat-time.

One Co3 and 2 Co2 events works... Note that the leaders in Open and Gp5 in NEDiv haven't run an in-division event.

> The number of out-of-division events counted toward the
>championship should be 9 if 9 rallysprints at the same
>location are counted this season. That way competitors
>participating in 'real' rallies also have a change at
>winning the division's ClubRally championship.

Maybe there should be a distinction between Co1 rallies and Co1 rallysprints, especially since they are distincly different animals (per the rulebook - hint, only one requires a codriver).

Adrian

 

[derek]

I think there needs to be a new catagory. Single venue rally sprints should not count but coef. 1 rallys should count.

Derek

 

[Adrian Wintle]

>To rephrase your question, should coefficient 1 rallys count
>for points? Put that way, does that change your apparent
>opinion?
>

That isn't a re-phrasing of the question (as I understand it). There is a distinction in the rulebook between Coef 1 rallies and rallysprints. Rallysprints do not necessarily require routebooks or codrivers. Coef 1 rallies must be run as stage rally format and have 10-30 miles of stages (at least 2 stages). We've run some borderline coef 1/2 events in Ontario that are definitely rallies (4 stages, 25+ stage miles, transits,...) - there is no question that events like that should count for a regional championship.

Adrian

 

[Lancia037Rally]

>Note that the leaders in
>Open and Gp5 in NEDiv haven't run an in-division event.

That is not true for open class. Only 7 out-of-division are counted so those leaders will lose points that are in the current totals.
And there hasn't been many in-division events to choose from.

>only one
>requires a codriver).

Exactly. Its not going to be too hard for drivers to memorize RPNE after a couple outings there. Then codriver skill is no longer an issue and points are being awarded to both.

Also, at RPNE, they used 3 roads run in each direction for each rallysprint. Each road was about 4 miles so each rallysprint totalled only 8-9 miles giving a grand total of a coefficient 3 with less than 30 stage miles. Only coefficient 2 total should be awarded.

 

[Bruce]

I think that rallysprints are valuable, both from a competitor and an organizer viewpoint. Competitors find them good places to start out, and beginning organizers find them simpler and more rewarding to put on than a stage rally event. To make the events viable, you have to award points for them.

That said, I can see why you might not want a championship composed of nine runs over the same piece of road...although it's probably better than no championship at all. Or is it?

At least the situation in the NE promises to get better again next year.

Bruce

 

[John Vanlandingham]

Yeah why not give them decimal points based on the length of stage so you win abeeeeeeeg long Rallysprint with a total of 4 miles you get
0.4 ponts for your win.
if you have a real rally car and any single non real rally car beats you, you deduct points from your score.......

Personally I think even the national championship level events are FAR TOO SHORT, and should be at least MINIMUM 3 hours competitive driving.
The combined Spped factor and seeding is a recognition of no real difference between so called Pro and Club, why not grade the points of all loose surface events based on coeffecients based on milage?

Sorta like ERC, winner points time sat 25 for proper approx 3 hour events down to say "points times 0.5" for the few minutes of a rally sprint?

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[Nick]

I don't have the answer, but the rally sprint situation in the NEDiv leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No offense to the organizers, great effort and it's appreciated. I just don't like the fact that someone can run there and get SO many championship points.

Nick Collins
#972 VW GTI
www.teamoneil.com
www.camelbak.com
www.yarrowsport.com
www.poohfarm.com

 

[Widget Codriver]

Separate Rally Sprint championships

Bruce makes valid points. Rally Sprints are excellent tools for introducing the sport to new competitors, organizers, and spectators. I would never dream of putting on a "real" rally, but now that I've done my little Perforce Software Rally Sprint at Santa Maria Speedway, I'm not quite so intimidated by the prospect.

The California Rally Series launched a separate championship for Rally Sprints this year. Give the rally sprint guys a chance to earn hardware, then whet their appetite for doing co-1 and longer stage rallies.

You control your own series--you should be able to define how many of which type will count towards a championship.

[hr]

[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com

 

[Lancia037Rally]

RE: Separate Rally Sprint championships

>You control your own series--you should be able to define
>how many of which type will count towards a championship.

Only if 'you' are the ClubRally steward.

 

[wvonkessler]

>I don't have the answer, but the rally sprint situation in
>the NEDiv leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No offense to the
>organizers, great effort and it's appreciated. I just don't
>like the fact that someone can run there and get SO many
>championship points.

Well here's a compromise that no one will like. Count the total rallysprints mileage for coefficient purposes. Then 2 12 mile rallysprints (billed as 2 coefficent 1 rallysprints) will still be a coefficient 1, but 3 15 mile rallysprints (billed as 3 coefficient 1 rallysprints) will be a coefficient 2.

The reason that events are billed such as "2 coefficent 1 rallysprints" is in part because Topeka has allowed coefficent 1 insurance and sanction fees for multiple coefficient 1 sprint events that do or do not add up to coefficent 2 levels.

However, I think that rallies should count for rally points, and rallysprints count for rallysprint points. Having a separate rallysprint championship would encourage rallysprint organizing and allow competitors to have low cost events. Some folks without a lot of money would probably run this series for a championship (kind of like Solo I vs. roadracing), in lieu of the cost of running a regional stage rally championship.

Plus rallysprints are a logical bridge between rally cross and true stage rallies, and are easier to organize because they can be run at single venues. MX and roadracing tracks (for example Hallet) are logical venues for them, and road permissions come a lot easier with them than with the US Government, timber companies, or others.

My .02

Wilson

 

[gilfeather]

It would seem that actually having an event in the NE that earns points, even if it is a Coeff 1 event, is better than having no events and then trying to claim that you have a regional championship. If people care so much about points and such then come out to the events and get your points.....

 

[RallyMan]

Wait a minute, why don?t everyone who is afraid of loosing their points in NEDiv championship just come out to the RPNE and defend it instead of complaining? There are no divisional club rallies in the northeast, so at least you have some way to get the points, but it seems that for some RallySprints are below they dignity. Common people, if you think that it is that ease to earn those points, then come and prove it, no one is stopping you!

Otis Dimiters
NORTH COAST SUBARU
Rally Team
www.ncrally.com

 

[Adrian Wintle]

RE: Separate Rally Sprint championships

>>You control your own series--you should be able to define
>>how many of which type will count towards a championship.
>
>Only if 'you' are the ClubRally steward.

And get an exemption from 9.6.C.5 which says that all ClubRally events score for points. RallySprints are ClubRally events by 1.7.D.2, even though 1.7.B.1/2 is somewhat ambiguous about their status.

This should not be a problem for the ClubRally steward (since they, or perhaps the CRSM, would approve the exemption), but it has to be determined and communicated at the beginning of the year.

Adrian

 

[Lancia037Rally]

Greg/Otis,
I have been there, done that at the last triple rallysprint. While it was a lot of fun once, several times would get boring in the codriver role and not worth it to defend a championship.
Less than 30 miles of stages does not equal a coefficient 3. After 1 event there, roads are memorized by the drivers and the codriver's role becomes mute although codrivers points are still being awarded.
At the rallysprint, points have been awarded to class winners when they were the only car entered in the class. Gee, there were only like 6 finishers at the final last rallysprints and 3 class winners got their winning points by finishing default. At the out-of-division rallies, there is multiple cars entered per class, many who are also National/Pro teams. How can you justify awarding someone 60 points for winning a less than 30 mile rallysprint with no competition to someone who has to beat many other cars in their class to win a 100+ mile coefficient3 out-of-division ClubRally?

The solution here is still to limit the number of coefficients counted toward the ClubRally championship at any single venue to there best 3 coefficients scored at that venue.

I do think there is vast potential for a rallysprint championship in the NE. A couple big carshow promoters such as HyperFest and the Carlisle Custom Import shows are very interested in incorporating a rallysprint into one of their shows and would provide prizes and free property rental.

 

[Tommyguns]

When you are in the running for a championship and all of the club rallys get axed and all you have is out of division and going a great distance to race, a guy who runs 3 rallysprints should not be able to make me lose my trophy. I must admit that this is a selfish reason but I have a really bad taste in my mouth from this whole thing. In my opinion I agree with Mr. Widget, it's a great intro to racing but it is not a "rally". Think about it. You could drive to PA run three rallysprints and be in the running for a trophy! I think not. I'm all for being fair but this to me doesn't seem right. If you have sponsors how are you going to explain that someone who never ran a club rally beat you...........I don't want to be put in that position.