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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now with all the safety debates raging I think the only thing that we all agree on is that there is a cost ceiling on safety for all of us. Some people may have a higher ceiling but we all feel that there is a price at which we would no longer be interested in competing. Now it got me thinking about what equipment people have and use and why they chose that brand price, comfort, ......... Now I think that to talk about cars would take forever and lead to a totally fruitless arguement. Please list the following:

1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA or SFI or both)

2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) , how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or closed face, cost)

3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)

4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)

5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)



Remember I want opinions and not a debate about effectiveness I am just trying to understand how people look at personal safety besides the car. I do am not looking ofr a "i spent 2 million on my helmt and it is made of unobtanium". MY current paradigm is that people are currently spending a lot of $$$ on cars and not much on themselves, I see people that look for the cheapest of harnesses and such but will spend $$$ on go fast parts. I am wondering if this is just a few people that I see post online frequently or if they actually represent the attitude of the general rallyist. I see a lot of resistance to various rules regarding safety and irregardless of effectiveness which I myself have questioned the overriding resistance comes from the fact that people feel that they do not want to spend any additional $ on safety equipment.

1. 3-layer suit, nomex, cost= 1350, I chose this suit because it was a custom suit. I was in between Sparco 58 and Sparco 60 and neither fit very well so I went with this one so I would be comfortable. I purchased the 3-layer because my wife wanted me to get the most protection possible. FIA rated only.

2. HElmet is an open face PEltor Carbon with intercoms, British Standard helmet but not an issue for me, 2 years old but I intend to replace within the next 2 years barring any major accident. I chose this helmet since it was convenient with the intercoms already installed and I like open face since I allows me more air.

3. YEs I wear Nomex underwear mainly because it wicks the sweat away and I use it to keep my suit a little cleaner.

4. I wear Alpine Stars and I hate them to no end very uncomfortable but they were free.

5. No Hans

Feel free to suggest any additional categories.
 

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straight at T
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>1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA
>or SFI or both)

Leaf 2-layer Nomex suit. meets SFI 3-2A/5. Basically an off the rack suit but with custom pockets added. Bought because I needed a relatively inexpensive suit when I started and I have seen no reason to change. I actually have a second one that is basically identical (useful for multi-day rallies).

>2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) ,
>how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been
>replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or
>closed face, cost)

Bell SR-Pro SA95. Closed face. It has never hit anything, so I haven't replaced it yet. Likely will be replaced in the near future with a Peltor-equipped full-face helmet.

>3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)

No. May do so in the future for its wicking effect.

>4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)

No. I wear running/walking shoes - something aboth having to get out of the car in all sorts of conditions.

>5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about
>effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a
>HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)

I will likely get a HANS (or equivalent) to go with my next helmet. Stopping rather suddenly at STPR this year brought that into perspective. I use a Leaf neck brace. I think it helped.

Adrian
 

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50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
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>>1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA
>>or SFI or both)

Sparco 5, FIA approved (2 layer) -because I wanted a higher quality suit after living w/ a very poor el cheap one for years. (It is worth every dime) - besides, people think I look like Lurch in it.

>>2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) ,
>>how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been
>>replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or
>>closed face, cost)

Peltor Pro-Carbon -because of fit, intercom, and knowing how well my last one served me.


>>>3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)

No. May do so in the future if I get a one layer (for the really hot events/ second day suit).


>>4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)

YES, Sparco - Karting boots,non-nomex, fit nice and support my ankles -I do not wear them in snow events.


>>5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about
>>effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a
>>HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)

I will likely get a HANS soon.

- Jeffy
 

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1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA or SFI or both)

Sparco 3 layers, one custom and one off the shelf. Both certs. Brought Sparco for quality and fit, custom one came from a sponsor to match car colors. Always wear a balaclava, to both keep the inside of the helmet a little cleaner and safety.

2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) , how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or closed face, cost)

Moved from Bell Mag5 (snell) to Peltor carbon open face (British cert). Usually replace helmets every 2-3 years, after talking to a bell helmet tech once I was shocked how fast they degrade. Replaced the Mag 5 after a shunt even though it was only a year old amd there was no visable damage, it hit the cage pretty hard. Fit, comfort and built in intercom was the main reasion for the switch to Peltor.

3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)

No, if it's hot I may wear wicking underware.

4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)

Running shoes or leather indoor soccer boots. Found race boots don't have enough grip for codriver duties, always with nomex socks.

5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)

Thinking about a HANS or simular, I expect to have something for next year. HANS seem to be the only one with an advertising budget, there are alternatives.
 

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I've been to the emergency room 5 times on account of motocross incidents. At 32, I am too old for that crap. I choose to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible. I can't understand why one wouldn't when the equipment is available at a fraction of the price of one hospital bill...and the money issue is NOTHING compared to the discomfort...assuming you are still alive to feel discomfort. By 2005, I will have a HANS device and a RaceTech head restraint seat in addition to my current safety gear, which includes a full face helmet.
 

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>1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA
>or SFI or both)
>
Simpson single layer. Met min req. 8 years ago when I bought it. SFI rated

>2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) ,
>how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been
>replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or
>closed face, cost)
>
Open face, carbon, BELL, Snell (lighter helmets are easier on my neck). About 6yrs old. No built in intercom.

>3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)
>
Yes, my suit is only one layer, this makes two which brings me up to req. Also it makes the debate on what to wear under my suit easy.

>4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)
>
Yes, I like to be able to feel the pedals. I picked them 'cause they looked pansy like all racing shoes, and they were black and uncomfortable. Actually I got them for a b-day gift, but I did ask for race shoes.

>5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about
>effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a
>HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)
>
I am considering Hans. I don't think it would inhibit escape time and the facts are compelling. I would have allready got it if it wasn't over $800 bucks.



In the beginning I spent most of my money on safety: Roll cage, fire suit, safe seat, helmet, fire extinguishers. Then I spent most of my money on events. Now I spend all of my money trying to fix my broken car and make it better (FASTER) in the process. I did just buy better mounting for my seat.

I have a hard time paying for more safety equip, when there is little evedence to do so. Who has died in a rally car fire with a one layer suit? No one to my knowlege. Would anyone be alive today if they had been wearing HANS? I don't know. I feel like the facts about saftey arent out there. Like its taboo to talk about the dead. If I was dead I would want people to look at what caused it and if it could have been prevented.
I would like detailed information on all the people who have died in USA rally in the last 10yrs. Then I could look at what might have saved their lives. Maybe someone who knows or could find out the facts, could start a rally saftey page. Listings of all known fatalaties of rally car occupants and the surrounding circumstances.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks guys it looks like mostly I am getting co-drivers responding? Maybe later today some drivers will respond. FYI the HANS is changing in September to a lighter better quality model so if you are contemplating one for next year wait (I was told this by Jim Downing) apparently the European version is quite a bit better than the US version or so I was told by people at Stand 21 and Jim. I did not add gloves because I do not know of any co-driver that wears gloves so I thought that only the drivers would. Now on the issue of Balaclavas I assumed I guess incorrectly that everyone wore a Balaclava, personally I run with a 2-layer open face balaclava but I leave it covering my mouth. I bought two so I can switch for each day of a rally. Interestingly enough I was told by Prodive that full-face would be mandatory next year in the WRC how do people feel about that? I believe this is because you need a full face helmet to work with the HANS system that will be mandatory but I have heard of people using an open face with a HANS.
 

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Suit -SFI 3/2-5 rated Racequip Proban. It does the job. Rather have a nice Sparco or sumptin, but I skimp budget on this area.

Helmet -Bieffe Jet moto? 2 yrs old, 2000 rated, full face, JC installed intercom(terrapro headset, sigtronics intercom mated to it)

Gloves- Worn out old Simpson nomex. Buyin new Alpinestar short one this year(hopefully)

Shoes- Sparco race nomex. I like em. Suck at S*D though, so I switched to leather boots last year for that one...

HANS- Much prefer the Tucker Helmet Harness from Teamtech. Has shown effective for side impacts also. Better sled numbers than the Hutchins. Not as good of sled numbers straight on as the HANS. Lots more affordable ~$400 ish...

Undies- No, I go cowboy. ;)

JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
James the few deaths that I have a little knowledge about were a death in greece (car hit electrical pole and line hit car and electrocuted the crew. A women co driver was killed in the UK when her car hit a tree on the passenger side and the co driver submarined under the belt and died of massve internal injuries. A 5 or 6 point belt would have prevented this and perhaps saved her life. THel ast deaths from fire may have been Henri Toivenen (the last I can think of and hopefully the last one) or Sandro Munari (I htink it was fire maybe somebody can correct me on this).
 

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>1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA
>or SFI or both)

G-Force multi-layer SFI 3.2/5A rating TPP 30. I picked them (driver and codriver) mainly based on price ($270) and value. They are a bit warm in the summer but a cool-shirt take care of that.


>2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) ,
>how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been
>replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or
>closed face, cost)

Bell M2, 2 years old, Snell S2000. Snell Vs. British not a factor. Closed face with Peltor intercom. Got them on sale for $200, usually closer to $300. Prefer closed design for better face protection offered.


>3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)

Not usually. Just cotton T-shirt or cool shirt and shorts in warm months. Yes, in winter - need warmth, might as well be Nomex.

>4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)

Yes. G-Force. I have wide feet so most shoe soles are way too wide and get in the way. G-Force is SFI rated, has a minimal sole for good feel and smaller outline, and the material used lends itself to shoe trees for stretching width.

>5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about
>effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a
>HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)

Not yet. I will probably wait until this area evolves some more.


6. Harnesses.

G-Force camlock, FIA rated. Nicely made, low price and I dont have to toss them next year just because the SFI says so. They replaced Sparco that were fine except for the manufacture date. I think this harness is a dacron weave. MUCH softer than the Sparco they replaced and they have better thought out and executed adjustment features. I always struggled adjusting the Sparco. Even my co-driver likes the G-Force better.
 

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We have made substantial investment in safety gear because this is a dangerous business and we want to keep doing this as long as we can.

Suit: Sparco 5 'cause they fit well, offer top protection and FIA rating remains current the longest for scrutineering. Besides, mine matches me driver's suit and makes us look super sexay in those parc expose pics.... (Beware buying a black suit tho---ours seemed like a good idea at the time, but jeez do they get hot in the sun!!)

Helmet: started with Bell Mag 4, which went approx 4 stage miles in my very first event before we flew off the road, rolled 3 times and landed on the roof at the bottom of a 20-foot embankment. I was so clueless I didn't even replace the skid lid! Now use Peltor Carbon open face--so light my neck loves it and the comms are so clear that J and I can converse at a normal tone of voice no matter how fast or scary the stage may be.

Nomex underwear: Off-brand circle-track stuff, tops and bottoms worn in colder weather, nomex top only or cotton t-shirt if it's hot. Balaclava at most events, Nomex sox at all times.

Shoes: leather light hikers, good traction for co-pilote's superhuman efforts to attach tow straps and/or push car out of ditches. Looking at Piloti Rallye shoes cos' they'd match my suit

HANS: Recent purchase, won't be riding without one ever again. BIt of a pain for co-driver getting in/out and buckled back up again, otherwise no issues with visibility or head mobility on stage. The neck support is much appreciated after a long rough rally. Added sense of security helps us push harder on stage, no doubt. Bottom line: $1k very well spent.

Seats: Sparco Circuit, with full wraparound head restraint. Really nice and secure. The head restraint helps keep my noggin from bobbing around like a crash test dummy on rough stages, and should keep J and I from butting heads terminally in a roll. No issues with side visibility except at certain intersections on transits.

Onboard fire bottle: 7-lb AFF foam with pull actuators in cockpit and at base of windshield. Plus handheld at co-driver's feet.

For what most teams would spend on a bling-bling clutch and anti-lag hardware, you can have state-of-the-art safety gear that puts your mind at ease so you can push harder on stage--plus, your Mom will love it, too.

Dave G


"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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Hmmm.. ok

Suit: Sparco 2 layer Fashion 5

Underwear: No nomex underwear

Helmet: Stilo w/ peltor intercom (Brit certified) open face

Gloves: Sparco premium nomex

Booties: Sparco Top 2's (I think, I just bought them)

Seats: Sparco Ultras (No head restraints)

Harnesses: Gforce camlocks (6pt)

No Hans, but im not opposed to it.

Man, all my stuff says sparco all over it... why isnt it making me faster!
 

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Yes Jeff, you are correct. Henri Toivonen and co-driver did die in a fiery accident. What a great driver.

Suit:- Sparco 2 layer

Underwear:- Sparco 2 piece (long) Always worn even in the hottest weather.

Helmet:- Simpson open face (self installed intercom).

Boots and gloves:- High top boots.

Harnesses:- Had TRW 5 point. May go to 6. New ones later when car is ready.

Seats:- Sparco 'Driver'. Extremely comfy and hold you in place.

I am totally satisfied with all the above equipment and would replace with the same if the need arose and if it was still available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Good point I forogt to add that. I think that people hsould mention harnesses as well probably.

We use Sabelt 6-point FIA rated replace at 2 year intervals and will be replaced should we have an off or roll. Exposing belts to sunlight (cars parked for extended periods outside) can speed them breaking down. I have heard how comfortable Willans and Schroth harnesses are.
 

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>What about neck braces. Does anyone use them? Why?

I know John Dillon used to wear one, not sure if he still does since I think he's using a Hans.

Andrew Sutherland
UniversalRally.com
 

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RE: Safety at what cost? Driver/owner vs co-driver

>I have a hard time paying for more safety equip, when there
>is little evedence to do so. Who has died in a rally car
>fire with a one layer suit? No one to my knowlege. Would
>anyone be alive today if they had been wearing HANS? I
>don't know. I feel like the facts about saftey arent out
>there. Like its taboo to talk about the dead. If I was
>dead I would want people to look at what caused it and if it
>could have been prevented.
> I would like detailed information on all the people who
>have died in USA rally in the last 10yrs. Then I could look
>at what might have saved their lives. Maybe someone who
>knows or could find out the facts, could start a rally
>saftey page. Listings of all known fatalaties of rally car
>occupants and the surrounding circumstances.

Preach it brother. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. And some of this saftey stuff is going to extremes (see topic on cages). I seem to notice a trend in the above responses being mainly from co-drivers. They seem to be able to afford the "good" stuff. Maybe that's because the driver/car owner bears the biggest brunt of the costs of participation?
 

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>1. Suit (Layers, material, and why you picked it, cost, FIA
>or SFI or both)

2-layer Design 500, nomex, SFI
Picked because NW company, could get it custom fit quickly, decent price

>2. HElmet (Snell or British standard (was this a factor) ,
>how old, how often you intend to replace it, has it been
>replaced after a major crash, built in intercom, open or
>closed face, cost)

Bell Mag 5 kevlar open-face
It hasn't had any major crashes, but is getting a few years old so am pondering replacement with Peltor.
I started with open face 'cause I was afraid I would puke, got used to it, but am now contemplating switching to close-face for safety reasons (although I prefer open for comfort and because of wearing glasses, although that can be mitigated somewhat by large eyeports).

>3. Nomex Underwear (do you wear it? why or why not?)

I own a set and wear it when I have it, but it is usually on loan to somebody (no crass jokes, please)

I did some road racing for a couple of years, and picked up some safety gear that I might not have acquired just for rallying.

>4. Racing Boots (do you wear them? Why you picked them?)

Nope, just use tennis shoes, ideally all leather so they don't fuse to my feet in case of fire (I do usually wear nomex socks)

I used to wear a balaclava until I lost it (Pat, did you find a Sparco balaclava in the black car after Rim '01?).

>5. HANS (what led you to get the hans (not a debate about
>effectiveness) are you happy with the confort, do you use a
>HANS approved helmet, do you use an open face helmet)

I am contemplating a HANS or similar device, but it is a rather significant expense for me these days and I haven't been doing much co-driving. I do use a Simpson circular neck collar as much as possible. While no doubt less useful than a HANS, it has definitely made my neck feel better after some rolls and fairly violent impacts (ie it's a whole lot better than nothing).

I wear some Sparco gloves when I drive (even in RallyCross and TSD), but don't wear them co-driving.

I intend to upgrade my safety gear when I get back into doing more co-driving. I'll probably start with helmet and suit.

Ben
Co-Driver (sometimes)
Driver (once upon a time circuit racing, once at a rallysprint)
 
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