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Faster !!!!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
... because it could all be gone next year ? :(

>I wanted to confirm with the "gods of rally", that lurk in
>the guts of specialstage, the validity of a conversation I
>overheard during my spectating at Wild West.
>
>I overheard a rally official/marshall and another
>spectator/driver conversing about the difficulty of insuring
>rally events.


- Everyone should know what is blowing in the wind -

RUMOR ALERT !
I was at a different Rally up north, and by coincidence I overheard a similar conversation ... specifically that it is HIGHLY LIKELY (almost a done deal ?) that both the SCCA and NASA are going to be forced to DROP RALLY COMPLETELY or lose all of their insurance ?

I am totally shocked by hearing this.
I truly hope that we do not lose Rally in the USA.
Would writing (or e-mailing) the BOG and/or BOD help ?
What can we do to prevent this ????
Is there anybody out there who can confirm and/or deny this ?

Maybe we may need to start thinking about how we are going to rally if NASA and SCCA both are unable to sanction/insure Rally anymore ?
? REAL, Constructive ideas ?


Hopefully we can all go out and have a few more good events before it all goes away .... if it does ???

Or even better: their is not a single grain of truth in this rumor, I'll click my heals, and say "their's no place like rally", and everything will be fine ...

Again, this is all based on an overheard conversation ...
( from a rally person that lives on Mt Olympus ;) )


I sure hope this rumor has no basis in fact ... :(
 

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Need ride. Please send money.
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Not to seem overly arrogant or anything, but...

IF this were to be true, think of how awesome the Canadian events could be with all of us from the U.S. joining the party? I mean, I hear they already are awesome & well run. Just think of 110+ entries at every one...

OR

IF this were true, I could see someone enterprising enough to form a Rally-only sanctioning body(or join with an off road one, or FIA) and obtaining insurance.

So, while I believe the insurance company(s) are trying to charge more & more, and the current sanctioning bodies(especially SCCA) have other things to consider, I just dont believe we are that close to demise yet. There have got to be other carriers.

JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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I can't think of who Ole overheard that could be a considered to be a spokesman for NASA. I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you that NASA Rally Sport is fully on-board to continue doing our thing for next year.

I'm really concerned with the "Chicken Little" atmosphere that has been propagated by our representatives in this sport. I cant' understand why these seasoned and intelligent business people are buying into this "un-insurable" nonsense. This climate of fear and uncertainty is killing our future and growth and is evidenced by the declining entry in recent events. We are being duped by a few individuals that have no interest in our sport and find it their advantage to get rid of it.

We will be able to get insurance. If not from one company or group, then from another. Our economy and society depends on commerce. If rally becomes "un-insurable", so does off-road racing, motorcycle racing, jet ski racing, mountain bike racing, drag boat racing, sand drags, ski racing, NASCAR, your child's soccer league, and the list goes on and on. We could be looking at changes but change can be a good thing.

Let's be proactive and positive. The sky isn't falling.

Ray Hocker
 

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Faster !!!!
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
>This posting
>has been a great disservice to the sport.
>
>John K. Shirley
>President
>NASA Rally Sport East

:( I'm sorry that you feel this way.
I did not mean to offend anyone.
Apparently my intent in posting this information was misunderstood?

It was a VERY DIFFICULT decision for me to post this.

I would not post anything like this if I had not heard it from a
very reliable source. It was not a representative of NASA.
I strongly believe that everyone in this community should know what is "blowing in the wind".

:):):):):)
I'm VERY glad to hear from NASA representatives that NASA will not have any problem with the sanctioning and insuring of Rally Racing in the future
:):):):):)


Thank You Ray !!!

... the sky isn't falling after all !
 

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Four tree two remember Andrew
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>I was at a different Rally up north, and by coincidence I
>overheard a similar conversation ... specifically that it is
>HIGHLY LIKELY (almost a done deal ?) that both the SCCA and
>NASA are going to be forced to DROP RALLY COMPLETELY or lose
>all of their insurance ?

Ole:

There is no truth to any rumor about NASA Rally Sport losing its insurance coverage, or NASA being forced to drop the program. We are looking forward to a productive and exciting 2005.

Wilson von Kessler
General Counsel/Risk Manager
NASA Rally Sport
 

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Faster !!!!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
>
>There is no truth to any rumor about NASA Rally Sport losing
>its insurance coverage, or NASA being forced to drop the
>program. We are looking forward to a productive and exciting
>2005.
>
>Wilson von Kessler
>General Counsel/Risk Manager
>NASA Rally Sport

Thank you for your prompt and direct reply :)
 

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I am glad NASA took the time to respond on this forum.

In a previous life, I used to be an insurance broker, and all this non-sense about rallying not being insurable is a bunch of B.S.

Insurance companies are in the danger business, otherwise who would need insurance.

What we have been hearing for over a year now, from the SCCA Risk Management Department, is how expensive rallying is, what we are not hearing is how much money the insurance brokers are making.

If the SCCA wants to drop Rallying, that's fine, but please, do not insult our intelligence, by saying rally cannot be insured. And most important, if they want to leave rally, just leave, there are plenty of companies and or groups of people willing to step up.

It is about time for rallying in America to be headed by rally people, not some so called racers just looking for a paycheck or anything else they can get their hands on, at our expense.

Tony Chavez
 

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The sky is not falling yet even at SCCA Rallying as well.

Rallying will be going on per SCCA.

Do note don't go by hearsay..if you are worried then call Sue. She will talk to you or get back to you via e-mail.

I ask questions all the time to her and she always responds. Get it from the official source.

There will be a 2005 and beyond ProRally and Clubrally(regional) series.

Denise McMahon
SoPac Safety Steward
 

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Geesh, I now feel somewhat responsible as my original post was quoted at the start of this thread. I'd like to clear up that I'm neither a "chicken little" or a doomsdayer and all I wanted was some confirmation and conversation on the matter.

I hope I never gave the impression that I agreed with what I heard or that it was anything but idle chit-chat amongst some folks who rightfully should know more than I.

I love rally, I'm just getting into driving and I hope rally in the US grows and grows so that anyone who wants to can enjoy the best motorsport in existance for many years to come! In fact, I hope I can raise little rally drivers (or co-drivers) in the future.
 

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Ole,

I still think the first line of your post is good advice...

Run every rally you can!

Strong participation will keep our sport alive.

Bill
 

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Neither Sue nor I have had any conversation regarding this with Steve Johnson. However the attendance is somewhat down at some of the National events, and the organizers could use your support. Colorado Cog is one of the best rallys going and if I had the opportunity to run, I wouldn't miss it. There are several good club rallys coming up as well that need support, so...
No one knows for sure what the future will bring, so run your cars, have fun, and be safe.
This is a personal post from me. I am solely responsible for its content.
Doug
 

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Well, OK - I will (as I have for the past few years now) try to run every rally I can- and God willing, I will do the same next year, and the year after, and so on.

I have great respect for the organizers of SCCA, CARS, or anyone else putting on a rally event- and I know how passionate we are to make sure we keep the sky from falling (or build a tunnel).

- Jeffy (see you at Cog, PFR, LSPR, and Tall Pines)
 

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Why is everyone so worried. SCCA Risk Management is jut trying to shake their stick to they can raise sanctioning fees. They get everyone worried and then they will come back and claim they saved the sport but have to charge more $$ to pay for insurance. If SCCA wants to drop rally let them.

As long as there are organizers willing to put on events, competitors that want to run, there will be sport. Bottom line who cares who the sanctioning body is (this is getting ridiculous).
We just want to go out there and compete.

-g
 

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Bottom line who cares who the sanctioning body is (this is getting ridiculous). We just want to go out there and compete.

Amen! If SCCA drops rally, NASA will pick up the pieces. Net impact on the competitor? Pretty minor it anything at all.

And for the record, welcome to the cyclical nature of rally. Historically it seems that rally lags the economy by around 2 years. So, when the economy goes south, rally does as well, albeit 2 years later. And when the economy goes north, it takes rally about 2 years to get back into the swing of things.

In 3 years we'll all be acting like old people talking about the days when you couldn't fill STPR.
 

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Okay, why SCCA versus NARA or is that NARRA or should it be NASA? You need support from a large group of people to put on a race or a Solo or a rally. Performance rally is not strong enough yet to stand as an individual sport. We need support from others who like cars.

BSR had support to lose some money, just not that much money. Rallye de Paris has the support to lose money for at least a few events. NARA and NARRA relied on each rally making money. NASA does not seem to have support from their racing side to lose money although I could be wrong.

So how does the rally side of SCCA support the other facets of SCCA so the local Boards of Directors will spend money to help rally? We become part of the club. We work timing and scoring at races. We participate in Solos. We become part of the collective.

Now Ray Hocker does a very good job of putting on events. I assume he doesn't spend all his money to do so. But if he does, could he send that money my way? :7

John and Kendall are trying to break even unless Kendall is earning so much money as a PhD that she can afford to support a series. By the way guys, I support your trying to make rally stronger.

But the end result is that to make rally stronger, we need to help make sports car racing stronger.

Richard
 

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In a phone conservation that I just had a few minutes ago, I was asked about a email sent out saying that Performance Rally was being dropped next year. I'm not at home and haven't seen this email yet, anyone know something about this?

One rumor being talked about at Prescott was the possiblity of Euro style Rally Cross with four cars at a time on an enclosed course.

David
 

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>Okay, why SCCA versus NARA or is that NARRA or should it be
>NASA? You need support from a large group of people to put
>on a race or a Solo or a rally. Performance rally is not
>strong enough yet to stand as an individual sport. We need
>support from others who like cars.
>
Richard,
Agreed we need support but I disagree that rally is not strong enough to stand as an individual sport.

You have said that you are a died-in-the-wool-SCCA fan and member and have been for many years.And that you are somewhat heterogenoerous in your car related activities, and I believe those 2 things color your perceptions.

If we look just slightly to the North of our porous border to the Peoples Republik of Canukistan we can see that in that country of just 30,000,000 spread over a far larger area than we have to fight, a small but ON FOCUS rally scene.
They have cyclical pains there also but on the whole I think few up there would argue that the change has been mostly positive for RALLY as a sport since they broke away and formed CARS, and have had a staff who concentrates soley on rally.Proportionally, the Canadians have a much larger turnout, and are able to accomplish both commercial and _legislative_ things that never would even be concieved of here in the USA.

SCCA rally is in shambles, the so cqlled "pro" series a 'towing Championship', the PRB lacks any authority, or accountability and as a result lacks any credibility.
The SCCA has historically brought in 'managers' from the outside who have unknown experience and unknown agaenda and as we saw with the man "who has the licks to get the job done" ##### gets rewarded.

Sorry but I think it's time to regroup as a separate entity.
We should send some 'diplomatic representatives' up North bearing gifts (beer) and ask then to share their experiences.

And break away while there are still some optimism and energy left on folks.

Sometimes a divorce is needed.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 
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