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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a question about the 2003 CARS rulebook, and I can't find mine. Who's got a rulebook in front of them, and can look this up for me?

In order to compete in the National Championship, a competitor has to run at least half the events. Does it say that you have to compete in half the events in one particular class, or can you compete in any number of classes?
 

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Faster Mabricator
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>In order to compete in the National Championship, a
>competitor has to run at least half the events. Does it say
>that you have to compete in half the events in one
>particular class, or can you compete in any number of
>classes?

I don't have the rulebook here but did inquire about this to the CARS president at St Agathe and was told that....
You can compete in different classes for the overall championship, but in order for a class to have championship winner, they must have competed in at least 50% of the events in that paticular class. Otherwise I could have won both the Gr2 and the P2 codrivers championships this year.
 

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Faster Mabricator
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However the rulebook does not say that. It says you must have completed in 50% of the events.
As it is now, there will be no P2 champions this season.

Having to enter 50% of events in any given class to qualify for that class championship puts unnecessary limits on a driver wanting to get a new or upgrading their car midseason and ruling is worse for codrivers who will have to find a stable ride in a given class at the onset of the season and hope none of the following situations happen: driver funds are exhausted; driver damages car beyond repair; driver is incompatable with codriver; driver cannot run required # of events, driver decides to change classes; or in my case, after being promised a P2 ride for the required # of events, the former team manager is delusional.
Its sometimes hard enough finding a driver or codriver for an event but when they are forced to remain in a given class, its worse and perhaps event entries will be lost because a codriver cannot find a driver entering an event in the class they started the season in and drivers cannot find codriver willing to share expenses for something they have no championship at stake in.
 

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They also need to put in some sort of provision in the rules that, along with having to do the 4 events (50%)...a competitor must compete in at least one rally in each region (west and east). As it stands now, Western teams HAVE to go east to be eligible for the championship...while eastern teams don't have any obligation to participate in western events (because they have enough already). Having the eastern teams required to race at least one western event and vice versa would really help build the championship as a whole. Although PFR and Big Horn, etc were great this year, it would be nice to see more of those important eastern competitors out here too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The Board has been through that very discussion several times, and the idea has been shot down as many times.

Basically, the feeling is that, in order to be considered a true competitor, they must compete in half the events. The vast majority of competitors live in the east, and it is expensive to trailer a car across the country. So, the majority of competitors should not be exposed to such an expense. It's unfortunate that western competitors suffer this expense, but running only 3 events is not even half of the series, so it can't be considered to be running the series.

The Board also recognizes that most of the eastern teams that want to win a championship need to compete in more than 5 of the events of the year. So, they usually (not always) have to come west, if they want to win their championship.
 

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Which brings up (again) the concept of having train transport for western competitors as well as for easterners. I think if we could get that happening for 2004, we would see a whole bunch of western cars coming east. The number of high-quality, competitive cars is growing rapidly here. (sorry to have inadvertantly hijacked this thread)
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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Yes, another case of the east thinking they are the centre of the universe ...

When a train deal was worked, it came together to bring cars from the east to the west ... and take them back east right after the last western event ... which leaves Western competitors no time to 'refresh' the car in a local shop (or their garage) and searching for medium length storage on the recieving end of the train ...

I'd be all for a requirment to compete in both regions ... since for Western based teams that is the reality already if we want to be seen as 'real competitors.' Our longest tow to a single event is more than all of teh tows for an eastern team to be eligable for points ...

Then again, life ain't fair eather.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There's somewhere in the vicinity of 300 rally licenses issued in Canada, approx 240 of which are issued east of Manitoba.

Having a western requirement will never happen. The eastern competitors will never allow it.
 

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I hear what you are saying guys... but to be very truthful Quebec is still a 16 hour tow (last event was Defi for me)west so Tall Pines is a 22-24 drive for us in the real east. To force me to travel west farther... train or not... will be more expensive due to the much higher cost of air fares out of Halifax vrs Toronto or Montreal or back east from Calgary or Vancouver to Halifax so I will have to pay more again to run for the championship 'cause... as stated above you would have to run at least 5 events for a realistic shot at a title ... not that I am complaining or anything :+ :+ I just wanted to add something from a person who really lives in the "eastern" part of this country!!! :p:p

way east Steve Q ;)
 

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Dave,
As I understand things, the license holders don't actually have a vote on these things ... but that's a side point.

Touting the circualr reasoning that the bulk of teh national license holders is east of manitoba is deplorable. it is far less expensive to challenge the national series in the east so it makes sense that more people woudl do it ... that doesn't justify it.

The basic principle is that if you live in Vancouver you are facing a 5000 Km one way tow to get to defi, tallpines, or perce niege - or a 50 hour tow ... for maybe one or two events if you can find a place to leave the car SAFELY.

At best, westerners are forced into running the best 4 or 5 out of one less event in 2004 because RIQ has packed it in and has not been replaced with anything ... at least with the western events we have three within a month an a half ...

And, if the maritimes held a national event I'd say paricipation in that region were manditory as well - provided the schedule were reasonable (in close timing to baie)
I'd even go as far as suggesting that cars SHOULD be promoting the resurrection of national events both in the Maritimes and in Manitoba ... A truly national championship should take place in more than 4 provinces ... shouldn't it?
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Traveling and mid-way rallies

And then there are those of us who come from the southern U.S. to each CARS rally where there are no local rallies and its a long drive to each.
Personally, I'd like to see CARS events in the U.S.:)

>I'd even go as far as suggesting that cars SHOULD be promoting the >resurrection of national events both in the Maritimes and in >Manitoba ... A truly national championship should take place in more >than 4 provinces ... shouldn't it?

First there would have to be enough rally-savy people to organize such a thing. Haven't been there myself, isn't the topography flat like the US midwest causing all the roads to be constructed straight. If there are no suitable twisty roads, that'd be a problem as well.
 

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>There's somewhere in the vicinity of 300 rally licenses
>issued in Canada, approx 240 of which are issued east of
>Manitoba.

And what is CARS doing about changing that? Or do they not see that as a problem?

The Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (flying model airplanes) had always justified its head offices in Burlington and all of its AGMs being held in ontario because the majority of members lived there. On day it was pointed out that thwere were the same number of members in Alberta and BC as there was in ontario ... and the rate of growth in the west was higher ...
 

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As a westerner by birth and by heart, I feel your pain. But I remember when I was racing R/C cars the nationals were always in Ontario, even though a couple of the fastest racers were in the west. It's just that the majority of racers were in the east. Fair enough.

Also Baie is a 16-hour tow from Toronto, and also it's very difficult for a top team with enough tires to use the train for the western run, so we had to tow out this year anyway.

But don't get me started on transfer payments, Trudeau, and the National Energy Policy...

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.
 

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RE: Traveling and mid-way rallies

I grew up in Manitoba, but was not into rally then and never really looked at 'rally roads' in teh area ... but there used to be a national rally in Manitoba in days gone past - and knowing the roads and areas I am sure we could get the roads needed.
(Hell, we ran a tsd east of calgary into teh prairies - where mile roads are teh rule of thumb, and got this feedback ... "The roads in the "badlands" were excellent, keeping the driver constantly on the alert"

NOW, as for having enough saavy people ... that's why we need promotion and growth led from the top ...

Currently I know of a handfull of people that are interested enough in rally to get involved. One, infact, travelled from Minnedosa to Merritt to go for his first canadian co-driving stint ... (ex-pat brit) BUT - it is hard for them to get 'into it.'
 

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>And, if the maritimes held a national event I'd say
>paricipation in that region were manditory as well -
>provided the schedule were reasonable (in close timing to
>baie)
>I'd even go as far as suggesting that cars SHOULD be
>promoting the resurrection of national events both in the
>Maritimes and in Manitoba ... A truly national championship
>should take place in more than 4 provinces ... shouldn't it?

Well that's kind of an interesting idea... but where would the cut off be?? miss on race and still qualify nationally...?? two?? From my standpoint I would love to see more good races available but lets face it the majority of the sponsor dollars are located in Quebec & Ontario. Is there enough support in Manitoba, and here, to do a national event(I have only been in this sport this year starting at Baie) my knowledge is limited at best but I know we have a strong atlantic region club ... I am talking out loud but really ... my words have no real weight because of my noobie status in rally...I welcome your comments tho...

Steve
 

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RE: Traveling and mid-way rallies

>I grew up in Manitoba, but was not into rally then and never
>really looked at 'rally roads' in teh area ... but there
>used to be a national rally in Manitoba in days gone past -
>and knowing the roads and areas I am sure we could get the
>roads needed.

Keith:

Trail of the Bison. It was a tough, tough rally.

Ran in the Sandilands Provincial Park, east of Winnipeg. The Shell 4000 also used to run a special stage in Sandilands.

If the roads could be made available, an excellent Canadian Championship event could be run there.

Location is not bad for competitors from the West and the East (and from the USA).

Problem would be the organizational infrastructure to hold the event. Something that would have to be developed over time.

Doug Woods
 

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I am not sure how relevant this is but ...I think there was a pretty good rally here in Nova Scotia called the Highlands Rally back in the day too...Doug do you remember this one? How were those roads and does anyone know why it was cancelled...
 

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When I was first involved in rallying, Highlands was still on the national calendar. I understood that it disappeared initially due to the sale of the paper company that had provided the roads, and then no-one had the energy to pursue new options.

At that time, the championship scoring didn't require you to run a certain number of events or a certain number of regions, but the number of events you could count depended on the number of regions you ran in, so if you only ran in two regions, you could count x events, but if you ran in three regions, you could count x+1 events.

This was a particular problem the year that Highlands disappeared, since some teams had been planning on it as their third region, having missed the western events, and then had no recourse when it was cancelled late in the season.

That's when we went to the formula of just counting x events regardless of region. No matter what the formula, the more events you enter, the more competitive you will be, and no matter what the formula, it will be easier and cheaper to do the championship from a base in Montreal than Vancouver, Calgary or Halifax.

Even if we had one event each in BC, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec and Nova Scotia, it would still be easier and cheaper to do it from a base in Ontario or Quebec.
 

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