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straight at T
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2,472 Posts
>WooHoo, Group 5 here we come!
>
>...shame about those pesky cage diagonals however!

What, your car isn't going to be ready for next year? :) The diagonals rule is for 2007.

Adrian
 

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Registered
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935 Posts
>What, your car isn't going to be ready for next year? :) The
>diagonals rule is for 2007.

;)
I think the best way to ensure it isn't ready to go by then will be to need to have it done before next year's end. Although, what is required to get a logbook issued? If you don't need to drive it...
 

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Dirt surfer
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1,367 Posts
Two worthwhile changes adopted re season scoring for the CRC:

1--addition of starting AND finishing points

2--allowance for scoring points from all 6 events in a 6-event series.

Both of these reward consistency, while also allowing extra chances for a "win or bust" type of approach to pay off.

See you all at PN for the first chapter of the 2006 saga. Make sure the car looks extra pretty, you're gonna be on TV!


Dave G
www.lastditchracing.net


"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
And they still have refused to deal with the fact that western teams have to travel east and potentially forfeit an event in our regional championship in order to simply qualify for the championsip while Ontario teams can (and do) qualify by running their regional championship and 'paying up' to be in the national portion. (make everyone do events in at least 3 regions to qualify)

This year P3 was not awarded, but Colin Armstrong could have (and was urged to) flown down to TP, rented a P3 legal car, rolled across the start line and parked the car and WON the P3 Championship 'legitemately'.

There are those out there who say that winning a championship when you only race 1/3 of the events is a hollow championship - and I agree. but starting half is equally hollow.

How about having a minimum number of competitors being eligible for the championship in a class to award the class. So if 3 drivers don't qualify for p4 (n4) - the class isn't awarded because there was no competition!
 

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Faster Mabricator
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3,611 Posts
More to rallying than class championships

>And they still have refused to deal with the fact that
>western teams have to travel east....

Two of the past three years, western events average entry #s were 2/3rds eastern event entry #s.
Using http://www.rallyracingnews.com/cars/cars-res05.html for entry #s and averaging them:

Eastern Western
2005 28 19
2004 30 26
2003 35 22

The way I see it, chances are eastern teams who do not go west are still going to have some decent class competition. A western team who did not come east would more likely have the chance at a cakewalk.

>This year P3 was not awarded, but Colin Armstrong could have
>(and was urged to) flown down to TP, rented a P3 legal car,
>rolled across the start line and parked the car and WON the P3
>Championship 'legitemately'.

So why didn't he? Maybe because the one western event he won his class, he was the only contestant.
Why didn't Gord come challenge Nichols for the Gr2 championship? To many people, it just ain't that important.
Geez, if Zimmer and I had CARS licenses this year, Randy would have won the P4 championship and I would have tied Robert Labrie for the codriver's championship. Do we care that we didn't get awards? No. Did we have fun? Undoubtably.

>How about having a minimum number of competitors being
>eligible for the championship in a class to award the class.
>So if 3 drivers don't qualify for p4 (n4) - the class isn't
>awarded because there was no competition!

Problem with that idea is that competitors (and their sponsors) with goals of a class championship would then be limited by their fellow class competitors actions, goals and budgets; not their own commitment to the championship.
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>>This year P3 was not awarded, but Colin Armstrong could have
>>(and was urged to) flown down to TP, rented a P3 legal car,
>>rolled across the start line and parked the car and WON the
>P3 Championship 'legitemately'.
>So why didn't he?

Why should he have to?

Dave, you simply can't point to entry levels and make assumptions about the quality of competition. We probably would agree that having more competitors competing at more events would do a better job of sorting out the championships ... but for now, the eastern teams have virtually no incentive to travel west unless a western team takes a run at a championship.

Additionally, yes, we're in this to have fun ... but we are racing and we are racing in a championship ... I'm just looking for a level playing field.
 

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Dirt surfer
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1,367 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>>>
>... but for now, the eastern teams have virtually no incentive
>to travel west unless a western team takes a run at a
>championship.
>
>Additionally, yes, we're in this to have fun ... but we are
>racing and we are racing in a championship ... I'm just
>looking for a level playing field.


One of the rules changes addresses this quite effectively, if perhaps not exactly on purpose.

Now that teams can count points from all 6 events, the easterners DO have a large incentive to travel West.

Dave G



"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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Faster Mabricator
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3,611 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>Dave, you simply can't point to entry levels and make
>assumptions about the quality of competition.

Sure I can. If that isn't anyone else competing in a class at an event, there is no quality of competition. The fewer the cars, the easier it is to place well.

>... but for now, the eastern teams have virtually no incentive
>to travel west unless a western team takes a run at a
>championship.

1/3rd of PFR's national entry was eastern teams while no western teams took a run. Everyone knows that if you want to be competitive in a competitive class, they must do more than 2 events.
Just a couple years ago, P3 was well-subscribed. What happened to everyone?
 

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Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
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2,953 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

Keith,
I'm so sorry you feel slighted you live where you do.
Does everyone on that coast feel inferior?

Both Dave's are right and you are wrong.

You have a rally train, use it!

If the roads in the East were as boring as Rocky's, I'd feel bad for you guys having to come East, but they aren't.
I hope to get to Merritt next year to do PFR but it depends on money, and timing, not a championship bid.

Oh, and by the way, rally competition is about as un-level a playing field as there is in racing. Haven't you noticed?

Just enjoy yourself, have fun.
The championship pays very little you know.
rz
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>Now that teams can count points from all 6 events, the
>easterners DO have a large incentive to travel West.

Absolutely, but the basic principle that bothers me here is that just to qualify for the canadian championship a western based team MUST travel east, where eastern teams don't have to come west. I haven't even touched on the number of trips east we have to make!

The train is great, kinda, but when we looked at the logistics and the indirect costs associated with using it, we expect to be towing next year.

and Randy, we definately don't feel inferior in the west, but there is a very real sense of western alienation that persists in just about every aspect of Canadian culture. As an example, it's not uncommon for a federal election to have the 'government' declared within minutes of the polls closing in BC.
 

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Registered
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RE: More to rallying than class championships

>Just enjoy yourself, have fun.
>The championship pays very little you know.
>rz
>

Aw man - does that mean I won't be getting a huge check to cover the costs of wrecking my car at PFR on the way to winning the Western Canadian Regional P4 title?
Dam - now I am going to have to use my own money to build a new car.
At least I got a big segment on the TV show. Plus my kids thought it was cool to see daddy "go round and round" on the in car footage.

:p
 

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Faster Mabricator
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3,611 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

Keith,
One year not long ago I won a couple Ontario codriver championships and got awards presented at a nice awards ceremony. The following year I entered many of the western Canadian regional championship events codriving for Gord and would have at least won WCRC Gr2 codriver's championship if not overall. I was told that because I did not live in a western providence, I did not qualify yet we paid extra to enter those regionals. What gives? Why can I win in Ontario but not western Canada?
 

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Dirt surfer
Joined
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1,367 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>>
>
> the basic principle that bothers me here is
>that just to qualify for the canadian championship a
>western based team MUST travel east, where eastern teams don't
>have to come west. I haven't even touched on the number of
>trips east we have to make!
>
>The train is great, kinda, but when we looked at the logistics
>and the indirect costs associated with using it, we expect to
>be towing next year.
>
>

Well, any eastern team that is set on contesting either the full CRC or a national class win can either hope and pray they don't DNF one of the eastern events...or they can suck it up and get out West. This approach is theoretically viable, but realistically the chances are really good they'll have to do one western race anyway. It's not as skewed as you're making it out to be, from a practical standpoint anyway. The polical aspects of the West/East thing...sounds like too much baggage for CARS to do anything about anyway! (BTW, the US has many of the same issues to deal with, so you're not alone.)

As for the "train or towing" question, here's my take after having done it both ways. The train has some drawbacks from a timing and delivery/dropoff standpoint, but it's WAY WAY cheaper than towing cross country. We sent our race car and a standard pickup with a modest setup of tools n spares on the train for Rocky 2003, which worked fout ine. We maybe didnt have all the spares we'd like, but still managed a good run in spite of some serious mechanical issues.

For 2004, part of our crew drove cross-country with the new LDR box truck packed with enough tires, spares, and tools to cover half the field. Well, the fuel costs alone nearly killed us. The guys exhausted their fuel debit card for the whole trip by the time they arrived in Calgary. Then the front brakes went; pour in more $$$. Then we had to drive from Maine to Ottawa to get the rig back, etc etc. The $3 US/gal fuel costs made all this outrageously pricey. Even at more sane fuel prices, it's still a far more expensive solution.

Short answer--next time we'll seriously consider sending the race car and a regular pickup on the train. The Hansen's/ CP Rail program is a major benefit for CRC competitors, don't scoff at what's a pretty effective solution to a thorny problem.


Dave G

"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>I was told that because I did not live in a
>western providence, I did not qualify yet we paid extra to
>enter those regionals. What gives? Why can I win in Ontario
>but not western Canada?

nor argument from me on that one ... it's another rule I don't agree with.
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
RE: More to rallying than class championships

>Short answer--next time we'll seriously consider sending the
>race car and a regular pickup on the train. The Hansen's/ CP
>Rail program is a major benefit for CRC competitors, don't
>scoff at what's a pretty effective solution to a thorny
>problem.

I'm not scoffing at anything - all I'm saying is that as a team with a car based in BC, we examined using the train and it didn't make sense to do so.
 

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Any winners without the trip?

I'm wondering..

Have there actually been any Canadian Champions from the east that didn't do the trip out west in the season that they won?



Frank de Kat
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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4,813 Posts
RE: Any winners without the trip?

Not sure about overall, but regularly in class battles.
 

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Dirt surfer
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RE: Any winners without the trip?

Well, there are a couple fellows from the faraway province of Maine who can't make the loot-gathering trek to Vancouver this year.

John Cassidy, 2nd Open class Driver, (4th Overall)

Dave Getchell, 3rd Overall Co-Driver, 2nd Open Class Co

See, you left-coasters aren't the only ones marooned by geography! ;-)

Dave G

"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 
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