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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering when any new info will be available?

Updates last year seemed to start in early March.
Web site still has all 2004 info.

Thanks
WRC
 

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50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
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Same here.
Never been, so I need to know the drill for this event
(and book flights etc etc etc)
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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Guys,
There was an organisers meeting this past Monday (I had to miss) - teh CSCC has JUST come through organising Cochrane, and wqe are two months from the event ... Chill a little!

As always, the event will require you to be here on the Friday and Saturday. I know they are looking at a 'new road' (actually old road) for Friday, which may mean registration is Friday AM

the actual schedule is up in the air pending the approval of the road ...
 

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Hi guys, I was afraid someone would start asking before I had all the details :)

Like Keith said, we're still waiting on one road permission, and a few other minor details which affects the schedule. Should have something next week.

Plan on being here Thursday May 26 (for the PR event at least)

Hotel is Blackfoot Inn ..... 1-800-661-1151

95% sure we'll be using Jemba notes.


We're also trying to get an idea of number of entries - seems to be a wild guess at this time.

Who's coming?


Thanks

Shawn Bishop
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Easy Rider Racing will be there.
Try to keep it to a Fri. / Sat. event - Please?

Hey Keith - first Bulliten was up on March 6th last year - I almost posted this before Cochrane.
:)
 

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50 L3/CR 70 Yump 200
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Keith and Shawn - that info already helps a bunch - Thank you.
You can expect the Dragonfly Racing team to be there!

Oh, Jemba notes? REAL ONES? (not just "Jemba style" that I've seen at a previous CDN event)- If so, then EXCELLENT !!
 

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Hi Shawn,

I am stoked for Rocky and am glad your planing on using Jemba as the distance to the stages would make for an extreamly long and costly recce day.
 

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Flat everywhere
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Two months isn't that long thats for sure. Its been a busy winter for shawn and the other organizers. I am sure the web site will be updated soon. I just talked to shawn today, and I hope to have some photos of the roads up Sunday night or monday. The 60 clear days for driving the roads is up on wednesday, Teresa and I will be out on Sunday getting her farmiliar with what the roads look like (at very slow speeds I will add, in a pickup truck so the local have nothing to complain about) and reading Jemba notes. I will post some pictures or send them to shawn to post for everyone to see.

Colin
BullitRacing dot ca
 

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Dirt surfer
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Sheesh. I wuz gonna announce that Maine-based Last Ditch Racing was going to officially contend for the "Farthest Traveling Team" award at Rocky again this year, but some wheel twiddler guy beat me to it!

Save some snowbanks for us, OK?

Dave G
LDR Ditch Avoidance Unit


"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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Aaron Neumann
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I'm a little confused by Scott's post as it makes it sounds like recce is not being run for this event? I sure hope I am mistaken and it?s a recce on Friday and race on Saturday event...

Aaron.
 

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From what Ive understood from various sources is that the roads the rally is run on, are very active, and as a result they dont have time to run the rally and the recce. So they use Jemba notes. Now, heres a question, that probably sound stupid to most of you.

How do Jemba notes work? I know a little bit about them, but not much.:9
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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Unfortunately - Rocky is Jemba notes with NO recce.

The biggest issue with recce is that the roads are 1.5 hours (at best) from Calgary, and are networked in such a way that co-drivers would have to rece the sections and stitch the notes together.
Rocky is VERY recce unfriendly, ESPECIALLY if we get the permissions for the 'new' road. Additionally, ALL of these roads have local sensitivity issues.

Jemba notes are basically an 'objective' description of the road giving each corner a grade based on the angle and length of turn. they 'sound' similar to pace notes, but only describe the road, not how to drive it. There are no braking points, entry points, cuts or no cuts. There MAY be some off cambers, jumps, and rough notes ...

Colin and I picked up a couple of 'tricks' when it comes to pace noting from running the jemba notes, and then Pat's notes at Bighorn.

Question ... if Pat were entered, and were available to do the 'organisers notes' over Jemba notes, would anyone object?

(not an official RMR question ... but the Jemba notes will likely cost us over $300/competitor)
 

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Flat everywhere
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>(not an official RMR question ... but the Jemba notes will
>likely cost us over $300/competitor)

I can say, that price is outrageous!!! I would not object to Pat making notes and buyng those, I used them at Bighorn and they were much better than Jemba. If he comes out and does them once the other road opens, close to when the event is. Maybe we could have a one pass recce to check the notes too, we could start in the porcupine hills down at the service area early on friday morning recce those roads once, then head up and do the other road up and back, then head back to Calgary. Keep the roads open to two way traffic, with one pass would cut recce time in half.

Just some thoughts, it is a little disapointing that all the regional events will be pace noted and the national won't. In my opinion $300 is way to much to spend for Jemba "notes" that are just a description of roads that you still have to run blind. With the level of competition, backing off to 9/10ths just in case there is a misnoted corner from Jemba is a difficult thing to do when championships are at stake. Maybe it is time we bite the bullet and try to do Rocky as a recce event. I would rather spend the money to buy Pats notes that have been proven and run the roads once in advance than run Jemba. Just look at the number of offs, big offs, at Rocky last year compared to Bighorn when we used Pats notes.

Colin
BullitRacing dot ca
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Notes

I'd rather see Pat competing than preparing stagenotes.

The reason Jemba notes are written subjectively is because what may be a jump for only the fastest teams is only a crest for say, a P1 team. Contrary to Keith's post, Jemba notes does include 'don't cuts, late apexes, keep in, keepL, keepR, KeepCenter' when and where necessary to keep a safe line.
The advantage of using Jemba is uniformity. Its being used at many if not most N. American rallies and a lot competitors already know the style and what to expect. I'm sure Pat's notes are good. I'm sure John Bellefluer's notes are good (for him). But I know there were many complaints following TallPines regarding the non-Jemba notes.
What Jemba offers is a measured product. The roads are driven in a car equipped with a 3dimensional accellerometer connected to a Coralba rally odo run by a very precise program in a laptop that records the distances of straights, crests, degrees and lengths of curves measuring these items very accurately. The program can print out a stagemap that matches the roadmap just by having driven the roads measuring the degrees and distances of the turns and straightaways. Neat stuff.
Now if I were a insurance carrier insuring rally events, what system would I want the event run using? A scientific measured safety notes unifrom to other events or a talented driver's interpretation? Providing to the insurance carrier a scientific method can help obtain cheaper event insurance lowering the organizer's cost passed onto the competitor thru lower entry fees.

The remark comparing offs between Bighorn and Rocky is like comparing apples to oranges due to them being different types of events with different calipers of drivers competing at different levels.

Who gave the $300 cost figure? Seems unlikely as they cost, at the most, $150 everywhere elsewhere including the past couple years at Rocky. Rocky uses many of the same roads and even of there is a new road, there would not be a lot more new measurements required, just checking for conditions and fine tuning thereof last year's notes. The cost to produce Jembanotes likely will remain the same as previous years. The number of teams expecting to buy the notes should be similar. I doubt Jemba is hiking up the price, I know Rocky is one of their favorite events. No lottery money maybe? Shaun?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
>The biggest issue with recce is that the roads are 1.5 hours
>(at best) from Calgary,
>Rocky is VERY recce unfriendly,

Agreed !



>Question ... if Pat were entered, and were available to do the
>'organisers notes' over Jemba notes, would anyone object?

Heck no - Pat's notes at Bighorn were awesome -




>but the Jemba notes will
>likely cost us over $300/competitor)

OH MY - I was having a hard time figuring out if I should buy them last year at $125.!!! I can not afford $300. for notes that "SHOULD BE RIGHT" (I realize my recce notes might not be perfect either - but at least I made them - and got to drive the roads.
 

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Flat everywhere
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RE: Notes

I have run Jemba, I know what they are and how they are produced. They are a better alternative than a route book, but pace notes they are not. They do include some don't cut and cuts, but very rarely and only for very bad stuff. Notes are way better. Jemba is a an alternative to a route book not notes.

The cost is very likely, you hit it on the head. No lottery money, no subaru canada, no tv so fewer entries, projected as low as 20.
Jemba is a fixed cost, so we will have to pay the same money, with less money to pay it with.

If the jemba notes are $300, I will have to think hard about buying them and ask the sponsor for the money, or hope the route book is good.

I don't know about the notes provided out east I heard they were less than good, Pats notes were very good. I would run them over Jemba blind. I will admit that I use a very similar style as Pat in my notes and he was the person who taught many of us out here how to note. But his notes are better than Jemba, I have run both. Bighorn had a somewhat different demographic of competitors, so the Off example isn't perfect, but we had much fewer offs at all the events in relation to the number of competitors, compared to Jemba. Recce is the best way to go, for safety and competition in my opinion. National events should be trying to go that route in Canada. I realize it takes more time and money than Jemba for some but if the cost is $300, the cost is close and I would pay more for notes anyday.

Colin
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
RE: Notes

Yea - What Colin said!

I reailze that doing recce and notes would add up to about the same (if not more) as buying $300.00 Jemba notes - but if you "do" recce you are making them your self and driving the roads as well.

Having done the following : Organizer notes (at Rocky last year) - Recce and own notes - and Pat's notes (at Bighorn) - - - I would rank them in order as 1)Recce - 2)Pat's - 3)Jemba.

That's just my 2¢
WRC
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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RE: Notes

> Who gave the $300 cost figure? Seems unlikely as they cost,
>at the most, $150 everywhere elsewhere including the past
>couple years at Rocky.

Dave, I have the budget in front of me. I also want to be clear to everyone that I am talking about the "REAL COST" of jemba notes, not the cost to the competitors. I doubt that we would be able to get more than the $200 for national notes that we charged last year.

Let me also reitterate that Jemba notes are an incredibly accurate description of the road ahead. The problem comes when drivers commit to the notes as if they WERE pace notes.

I do think, however, that you can compare Bighorn and Rocky ... Bighorn was littered with novices (1/2 the field) on extremely fast and at times extremely rough roads. Sounds like a bad combination - but NO significant OFFS. - Rocky 4 rollovers (2 in the same spot and nearly a third) not including the 2 in the spectator stage?
 
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